Woman chaplain at Catholic high school

[Cojuanco]

Or heck, what about the religious who are not ordained? Perhaps the problem is that there has been a misreading of tradition among the laity in 20th Century America (it was different in other times and other places). One needs to be a priest to perform certain kinds of pastoral work (say, hear confessions, confect the Eucharist, give the last rites), but others are open to everyone qualified. Otherwise, explain the Franciscan practice? Or the Poor Clares?

 

[quiet52]

Originally Posted by glendab
Hello Co.

No, it isn’t “pastoral” to help others and give counsel or provide spiritual direction or any of the other myriad ways in which Sisters are there for us. It is simply being a Sister and giving of oneself in a loving way. It insults good and faithful Sisters to call them pastors and their works pastoral. That is your opinion of what they do and I thank you for sharing your opinion. But is is still an opinion.

Can I ask, if you really feel that what some Sister’s do is pastoral, do you also feel they should get recognized as pastors of souls?

Glenda

By virtue of our Baptisms we partake in Christ’s divinity and are called to take on His roles as Priest, Prophet and King.

Have you ever heard the phrase “Priesthood of the Faithful”? We lay people are not ordained priests and we don’t sanctify others the same way a priest does, but in our varied ways we do try to help others become holier. We participate in the liturgy together and pray together. We bring the Eucharist to the sick and homebound, or serve the priest at the altar. But most often we offer our small and big sacrifices every day, done in love.

We take on Christ’s role as prophet when we teach our faith as catechists, Bible study leaders and participants, parents, neighbors, and coworkers. Or as pro-life or pro-marriage activists. Or as a poster on a Catholic Answers thread.

And we take on His role as King or ruler in our small ways. A priest might or might not serve as a “Pastor” (which means “shepherd”), but hopefully will always be pastoral. So must we lay people be pastoral. There are many ways, big and small, for us to help govern spiritually in this world. Parenting and keeping family and marriage strong is extremely important. Being a sponsor, providing spiritual direction, comforting a distraught friend, volunteering at the soup kitchen, serving in any way we can to help others experience Jesus’ love and truth is being pastoral. Yes, we are all called to be co-pastors of souls in the ways we are able to.

 

[glendab]

**We are all called to do everything Jesus asked of us when He walked the earth: give alms,do charitable works such as feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, bury the dead, bare patiently the errors of others, pray for the dead, as well as all the things the Church through the years has given us to do: support our Church and our Priests and religious, etc. I could make a very long list of all that is required to live this thing called Catholicism. BUT insisting that others acknowledge that doing some of these things should be called **“pastoral” isn’t my interpretation of the works that prove our faith. **
A mother who instructs her children in the faith and prays a family Rosary in the evening isn’t doing “pastoral” works though some would claim so for her to make sure she’s “included” in the faith somehow making up for all the centuries of “neglect” the Church is supposedly guilty of of women. HOGWASH and I do mean HOGS!

I also think talking that way is deceptive and supports a growing heresy that says women should be ordained. Belloc would just say it is part of Modernism, the re-thinking or re-interpretation of our faith. Innovation. Novelties that go un-challenged in the immediate sense therefore must be correct because we don’t hear loudly corrections being given by the Rota. Food for thought. How loudly does the Holy Father need to shout for faithfulness to return?

There are those among us who don’t believe what we do. That has always been and will remain. But when we deny their presence among us and their need to distort our faith, we live as if blind. Reality. Ever since Judas left the table with his coins rattling around in his pockets. It is part of following Christ. One’s enemies will be those of one’s own household.

Please don’t exaggerate my words to include ALL of any one group. The OP’s distress over hearing a woman addressed as Pastor at her Catholic High School brought her here to ask. It may very well be a heretical thing. That is always a possibility. Denying that fact to remain “charitable” doesn’t fix anything and makes it much more difficult for those CALLED to CORRECT our mistakes and errors and given the actual Authority to do so. God does still create such men and they are active. In times past, they’ve even been Martyred trying to stop heresy. Think about it.

Glenda**

 

[Used2beSherryG]

We are all called to do everything Jesus asked of us when He walked the earth: give alms,do charitable works such as feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, bury the dead, bare patiently the errors of others, pray for the dead, as well as all the things the Church through the years has given us to do: support our Church and our Priests and religious, etc. I could make a very long list of all that is required to live this thing called Catholicism. BUT insisting that others acknowledge that doing some of these things should be called **“pastoral” isn’t my interpretation of the works that prove our faith. **
A mother who instructs her children in the faith and prays a family Rosary in the evening isn’t doing “pastoral” works though some would claim so for her to make sure she’s “included” in the faith somehow making up for all the centuries of “neglect” the Church is supposedly guilty of of women. HOGWASH and I do mean HOGS!

I also think talking that way is deceptive and supports a growing heresy that says women should be ordained. Belloc would just say it is part of Modernism, the re-thinking or re-interpretation of our faith. Innovation. Novelties that go un-challenged in the immediate sense therefore must be correct because we don’t hear loudly corrections being given by the Rota. Food for thought. How loudly does the Holy Father need to shout for faithfulness to return?

There are those among us who don’t believe what we do. That has always been and will remain. But when we deny their presence among us and their need to distort our faith, we live as if blind. Reality. Ever since Judas left the table with his coins rattling around in his pockets. It is part of following Christ. One’s enemies will be those of one’s own household.

Please don’t exaggerate my words to include ALL of any one group. The OP’s distress over hearing a woman addressed as Pastor at her Catholic High School brought her here to ask. It may very well be a heretical thing. That is always a possibility. Denying that fact to remain “charitable” doesn’t fix anything and makes it much more difficult for those CALLED to CORRECT our mistakes and errors and given the actual Authority to do so. God does still create such men and they are active. In times past, they’ve even been Martyred trying to stop heresy. Think about it.

Glenda

 

[Batfink]

I’m a lay woman who used to work as a school chaplain in the UK.

Some points:

1. There were 20 secondary school chaplains in our diocese, the majority women. None of them, myself included, were in favour of women’s ordination. Taking a role which in the past would have been filled by a cleric does not mean we are in open dissension with the Church. In fact, I am fully supportive of the Church’s teaching.
2. There were not a huge number of priests, or even lay men, who wanted the job I got. It is low paid and therefore only really suitable for someone who is not the main wage earner in a family.
3. I was called Chaplain despite knowing that I do not fulfil the canonical description of a chaplain. This was the custom of the school in which I worked (which had in the past had priest chaplains) and it was an easy job title for people to understand. No one confused me with a priest, thought I was pretending to be a priest, or had any other misunderstanding about what the job meant and who I was. The problem does arise with male lay chaplains, who are sometimes confused with priests. If asked what my job was, I was always clear to state ‘lay chaplain’. I know this doesn’t officially exist, but it is an imprecision which makes it understandable for the majority of people.
4. The involvement of lay chaplains in schools actually promotes a healthy relationship with parishes. For example, the school in which I worked served 7 parishes with 8 priests. 6 of these priests regularly came into the school to work with pupils, including offering Mass twice a week and regularly scheduled confession times. The priests were also enabled to get to know the pupils in a wider context and spend some time with them. This was only possible because I, as the lay chaplain, coordinated their involvement. In many ways it would be nice to have a resident priest chaplain, and having known relatively few of them I can’t generalise to say whether the same system would be in place, but my limited experience does indicate that the neighbouring priests to the school with a priest chaplain tend to have less contact with the school as they don’t want to step on their brother priest’s toes, so there is not the support for the relationship between school and parish, which is more and more necessary as many of our pupils are not from practising families.

 

[CB_Catholic]

We are all called to do everything Jesus asked of us when He walked the earth: give alms,do charitable works such as feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, bury the dead, bare patiently the errors of others, pray for the dead, as well as all the things the Church through the years has given us to do: support our Church and our Priests and religious, etc. I could make a very long list of all that is required to live this thing called Catholicism. BUT insisting that others acknowledge that doing some of these things should be called **“pastoral” isn’t my interpretation of the works that prove our faith. **
A mother who instructs her children in the faith and prays a family Rosary in the evening isn’t doing “pastoral” works though some would claim so for her to make sure she’s “included” in the faith somehow making up for all the centuries of “neglect” the Church is supposedly guilty of of women. HOGWASH and I do mean HOGS!

I also think talking that way is deceptive and supports a growing heresy that says women should be ordained. Belloc would just say it is part of Modernism, the re-thinking or re-interpretation of our faith. Innovation. Novelties that go un-challenged in the immediate sense therefore must be correct because we don’t hear loudly corrections being given by the Rota. Food for thought. How loudly does the Holy Father need to shout for faithfulness to return?

There are those among us who don’t believe what we do. That has always been and will remain. But when we deny their presence among us and their need to distort our faith, we live as if blind. Reality. Ever since Judas left the table with his coins rattling around in his pockets. It is part of following Christ. One’s enemies will be those of one’s own household.

Please don’t exaggerate my words to include ALL of any one group. The OP’s distress over hearing a woman addressed as Pastor at her Catholic High School brought her here to ask. It may very well be a heretical thing. That is always a possibility. Denying that fact to remain “charitable” doesn’t fix anything and makes it much more difficult for those CALLED to CORRECT our mistakes and errors and given the actual Authority to do so. God does still create such men and they are active. In times past, they’ve even been Martyred trying to stop heresy. Think about it.

Glenda

The woman in question in the OP was not addressed as Pastor–she was referred to as a chaplain by the school–the word Pastor does not even appear in the post. And no–it is not the same thing.
I totally disagree with your posts and presumptions, and no, I do not believe women are called to be priests. I think your posts are very judgmental and uncharitable and reactionary.
That is all I have to say.

 

[paperwight66]

Please don’t exaggerate my words to include ALL of any one group. The OP’s distress over hearing a woman addressed as Pastor at her Catholic High School brought her here to ask. It may very well be a heretical thing. That is always a possibility.

Glenda

I think you have been WAY too hasty, glendab. You have read something in the OP’s post which was not there. I’m sure you realise that now.

Hastiness is never a good thing, especially when it leads to throwing around accusations of heresy.

 

[babochka]

I think you are all being too charitable.

I don’t really think it is possible to excessively show the virtue of charity. On the other hand, showing a lack of charity is always wrong.

Certainly, it is wrong to blur the lines between the priesthood and the laity, but if it clearly a role that is acceptably held by a lay person, why exclude women?

I think there are probably hundreds of qualified men available to fill the needs of the children at the OP’s high school. THEY CHOSE TO PLACE A WOMAN IN THE SPOT. To me that says it all.

Why does it matter if there are hundreds of qualified men? Why should they give preference to a man in this situation? Are women only fit to be parish secretaries and members of the altar society? In my all-girls Catholic High School in the 1980s, the position was called Campus Minister. For the first two years, we had a female Campus Minister. For the 2nd half of High School, the Campus Minister was male. The job consisted of planning school Masses, encouraging student involvement in spiritual matters, planning retreats, running the campus ministry club, planning student service opportunities etc. (I’m sure there was more to the job, but from a kid’s perspective, that was about it.) We had a priest, our chaplain, who was available for those occasions that required a priest - school Masses, Confession, etc. There was considerably more student involvement in campus ministry for the two years that we had the male- he was young and good-looking, so all the high school girls flocked to campus ministry. Not exactly pure motives, but it got us involved. Attendance at the early morning (optional) Masses skyrocketed.

 

[babochka]

I think the problem here is that, in the secular world, the definition of chaplain has changed. My priest used to work as a chaplain for a hospice organization, and he said that the chaplain position is essentially a social worker. The Church still defines chaplain as an ordained priest, but the world does not. I was a little taken aback when I was visited by the chaplain at a Catholic hospital and it was a layman. I had looked forward to seeing a priest, as I wanted to go to Confession. As a church, we don’t have to go along with what the world is doing.

 

[glendab]

Hello Babochka.

Charity has little to do with women filling roles that were traditionally given to men.

I don’t really think it is possible to excessively show the virtue of charity. On the other hand, showing a lack of charity is always wrong.

Certainly, it is wrong to blur the lines between the priesthood and the laity, but if it clearly a role that is acceptably held by a lay person, why exclude women?

Why does it matter if there are hundreds of qualified men? Why should they give preference to a man in this situation? Are women only fit to be parish secretaries and members of the altar society? In my all-girls Catholic High School in the 1980s, the position was called Campus Minister. For the first two years, we had a female Campus Minister. For the 2nd half of High School, the Campus Minister was male. The job consisted of planning school Masses, encouraging student involvement in spiritual matters, planning retreats, running the campus ministry club, planning student service opportunities etc. (I’m sure there was more to the job, but from a kid’s perspective, that was about it.) We had a priest, our chaplain, who was available for those occasions that required a priest - school Masses, Confession, etc. There was considerably more student involvement in campus ministry for the two years that we had the male- he was young and good-looking, so all the high school girls flocked to campus ministry. Not exactly pure motives, but it got us involved. Attendance at the early morning (optional) Masses skyrocketed.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck chances are it is a duck. Common sense tells folks that those in authority who give titles to women that in the past were reserved for men mean that women and men are interchangeable in those roles and are furthering their own personal ideologies.

ooooppps I admit I got confused between the OP hearing her female counselor called the Chaplain instead of Pastor with another post that said “Pastor”. Oh dear, please forgive me.

The terms Pastor, Minister, Chaplain are ALL traditionally MALE ONLY ROLES. Calling a woman ANY of them implies something that isn’t TRUE. It wasn’t until the advent of Feminism as an ideology that men and women were considered inter-changeable in roles exclusively male and it is this ideology that is forwarded by those who think a certain way. It is a lie and has lead to heretical acts completed not only by women but also by men. How did those women get Ordained? Have you visited the WomenPriest website lately? (romancatholicwomenpriests.org/archivepressreleases.htm )

**They are proud of their intrusion and heresy. ** And that is exactly what it is. HERESY.

Stay silent about it. You won’t be a part of the solution to it.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

P.S. I think every single time a woman or girl gets to practice roles that traditionally were exclusively male, the heresy is furthered and until women and girls begin to see how they’ve been used by the heretics and refuse to fill these roles will we see a turn around. Yes ladies and girls it is a choice to turn away from the Altar and all those who think that you can be a Priest of God. They are heretics! Whether or not they openly admit it, their actions speak louder than their words.