Woman 'denied a termination' dies in hospital

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How did Hitler get involved in this? To recap, we don’t know what killed her, we don’t know why she died, and we won’t know these things until the inquest and the enquiry report. Everything else is just sound and fury.

Human history is marked by moral frenzies like this. Christians murdered thousands during the witch hunt mania of the early modern period; atheists murdered Christians during the Cultural revolution in China and all of it happened because humans periodically become obsessed with some kind of social mania for this season’s moral “right”, whether that be fighting Satan, or destroying “ignorant superstition” or, as in this case, advancing supposed “women’s health”. We are Catholics; reason is our bedrock and we shouldn’t be invoking names like Hitler in discussions like this.
 
Mustard said:
How did Hitler get involved in this? To recap, we don’t know what killed her, we don’t know why she died, and we won’t know these things until the inquest and the enquiry report. Everything else is just sound and fury.

Human history is marked by moral frenzies like this. Christians murdered thousands during the witch hunt mania of the early modern period; atheists murdered Christians during the Cultural revolution in China and all of it happened because humans periodically become obsessed with some kind of social mania for this season’s moral “right”, whether that be fighting Satan, or destroying “ignorant superstition” or, as in this case, advancing supposed “women’s health”. We are Catholics; reason is our bedrock and we shouldn’t be invoking names like Hitler in discussions like this.
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When people act as authority figures on who gets to live and who doesnt based on whacky criteria (one of them who admitted to being a doctor), as a few posters have some posts back, why would Hitler be an absurd comparison?
 
I will not respond to any of these posts as this is a touchy subject for me.
These scenarios are simply for consideration.

A woman is at home with her children, they have all been tucked safely in bed for the night and are soundly sleeping. After she talks briefly with her husband on the phone, who is away on a business trip, she prepares herself for bed.
Taking one last peek in at her children, she goes to the masterbedroom on the first floor and goes to bed.
Deep in the night she hears sounds outside of the house and not being able to discern what they are she goes to investigate.
She unlocks the door and steps outside, but not seeing anything from the front of the house she begins to walk around the yard.
On turning the corner she finds to her horror that the noise she heard was actually coming from the second story of the home which, by this time is engulfed in flames. She is terrified for her children and runs to the front of the house, but upon flinging the door open, she finds she cannot enter because the flames are raging and the smoke is thick. She is frightened for her children, though by looking at the scene in front of her they have already perished or are close to perishing, she screams for help and the neighbors on hearing her call the fire department, then run over to see what they can do. No one can enter the house, one neighbor has tried and has suffered terrible burns to her body, another covers himself with a wet blanket and tries to enter the home to rescue the children, but soon reappears coughing and hacking, overwhelmed by the smoke.
The mother keeps trying to get back in the home, to save her children, but others being more astute to the danger, hold her back, knowing that if she enters, she is certain to die along with her children.
Finally the mother realizes that she cannot enter the dwelling safely, and though distraught and griefstricken, she can do nothing more than watch in horror as they wait the arrival of the firetrucks.
The children have perished in the fire.
The fire is ruled an accident beyond all control.
The mother is then prosecuted for not attempting to save her children.
The prosecution readily admits that the mother did all she could initially to save them.
The prosecutor readily admits that the children couldn’t have been saved even if the mother had managed to get to them.
The prosecutor readily admits that by attempting to get to the children the mother would have certainly died with them.
But, the prosecutor says all of that doesn’t matter. That because of the mother’s special bond with her children, a sacred bond, the mother should have died in her attempts, even if the attempts were futile, and none of the children could have been saved regardless.
 
Scenario 2

2 men are working at a construction site. While they are working part of the structure falls, pinning them both beneath heavy iron beams. One man is gravely injured, and the other man is pinned between him and the beam. The only thing preventing the badly injured man from being crushed completely and dying more quickly is the cushioning effect of the second man, whose leg is lodged between the beam and him.
Emergency crews arrive, and after carefully examining the situation, determine that if they move the less injured of the two men, the badly injured man will surely die more quickly as the beam will crush him. There is no way to extract one man without killing the other. The badly injured man is certain to die from his injuries regardless if he is extricated from the wreckage. The less injured of the two cannot have his leg amputated as this will kill him due to the position of the beam on him.
Time is of the essence if they hope to save either of them. One is certain to die, regardless of what is done. To extricate him would mean the certain death of the less injured man, and yet the badly injured man will die either way.
If the emergency personnel decide that the less injured man must be extricated to save his life, as opposed to extricating the already dying man, have they (the emergency crew) committed murder?
 
Scenarios 3 and 4

A woman is kidnapped and held hostage by rebels. She is told she will certainly die, and that she must choose her manner of death. By hanging, or by firing squad. She presumes that firing squad will be quicker and less painless and thus chooses that method.
Did she commit suicide by determining how she would die?

A man and his son are kidnapped by the same rebels. The man is told his son will be killed, and the father must choose the manner of death. If the father does not choose, his son will be tortured slowly until he dies. The rebels make good on their threats and begin to torture the son, causing him excruciating pain. The son begs the father to decide a manner of death, that he may not suffer anymore. The rebels tell the son they will let his father live if he (the father) makes a choice. The son begs his father to relieve him (the son) of his suffering, and to preserve his own life. The father decides. The son is executed quickly and the father released.
Was the father guilty of murdering his son?
 
Scenario 5

A ship at sea has encountered an iceberg. The ship sustains considerable damage and several crew members are badly injured but the Captain has not been hurt in the slightest by some stroke of fate. The Captain helps many of the crew into life boats as the ship is sinking fast. As the ship tilts more into the water, the life boats have all been filled and no kind of floatation devices remain. The Captain has 2 crew members left, both are bleeding out profusely and on the verge of death. The only hope to save them is to throw them overboard into the ocean, where they will certainly die, either because they are too frail to withstand the rough waters and will drown in them, or because of the sharks.
Also, for the Captain to go back to save the remaining 2 crew members, he is certain to die as well. The Captain is in relatively good help, and if he jumps into the ocean there is some chance he can survive. But if he goes after the crewmembers who are dying either way, the Captain will die too.
Is the Captain guilty of murder by leaving the ship?

And yes, I know they take an oath of some kind, but where is the line drawn?
 
And lastly;

Saint Perpetua, after being mauled by a cow in the arena, was then to die by execution. When the executioner could not steady his sword enough to kill her quickly and efficiently, she steadied the sword against her own throat.
Would anyone say she committed suicide by doing so?
 
Ireland Government Defeats Motion to Legalize Abortion
Motions to essentially legalize abortion in Ireland, following the death of a pregnant Indian woman named Savita, have been defeated.
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Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams tabled a motion in the Irish Parliament (the Dáil) today calling for immediate changes to abortion laws and urging legislation supporting abortion in the Irish Republic.
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A Sinn Féin Private Members’ motion calling on the Irish government to give effect to the 1992 Supreme Court ruling on the X Case was voted down 90 to 53 in the Dail. A report in RTE News provided more details:
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Earlier, United Left Alliance TD Clare Daly said that the bill that she introduced this morning, to legislate for the X Case, is an amended version of legislation she had previously introduced.
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Deputy Daly’s original bill was debated in April and was defeated on second stage during Private Members’ Time.
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Speaking on RTÉ’s Drivetime, Ms Daly said that the deputies behind the legislation had responded to the criticism of their original bill.
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“At the time, the Government p(name removed by moderator)ointed a number of areas where they thought our legislation was a bit loose, in terms of areas around the issues of consent and issues of offences,” Ms Daly said.
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“Obviously, it’s not the same bill that we’re introducing. It’s an amended version to take account of the objection raised by Government at the time.”
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The legislation, in the name of Deputy Daly, Mick Wallace and Joan Collins, was introduced as a Private Members’ Bill and has to be debated in Private Member’s Time.
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When Deputy Daly’s bill was debated in the Dáil in April, it was defeated by 111 votes to 20.
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Before the vote, the Pro-Life Campaign, one of the major pro-life groups in Ireland, asked members of the Irish Parliament to defeat it.
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oldcelt said:
This is no victory for life…if the woman could have been saved, she should have been.

John
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If you can name me one instance whereby a mother is let die to save the child, I would be very interested in hearing it. The catholic ethical procedures always look to the mother’s health - as I’ve said in previous posts, if the mother dies, by default so will the child - hence in cases of ectopic pregnancies, pre-eclampsia, etc., the pregnancy is either ended by inducement and/or the mother will be induced when the baby is viable, as a dead mother, either through high BP or ectopic pregnancy complications, w/could result in a dead baby.
 
deccanherald.com/content/293931/savitas-abortion-requests-missing-medical.html

Praveen Halappanavar, husband of an Indian dentist who died due to pregnancy-related complications after being denied abortion in Ireland, says the medical notes made available to him do not contain their repeated pleas for a termination, but mention trivial requests for tea and toast.

Again more media spin. Of course, any food requested and/or consumed by a patient is mentioned in their notes, as are body temperature issues i.e. the request for a blanket. The fact Savita and/or her husband requested a termination would not be recorded in her notes. It is a request and has nothing to do with the patient’s notes, which are a record of the patient’s stay in hospital and related to the medical treatment required and carried out by the medical team.
 
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