Woman in Islam.

[ZAKI]

Really? Don’t you think most of the west countries which are so much more developed compared to Muslim countries, such as Australia in which you’re living, wchich are very much contributed by the teaching of Christ reminds you of the living situation back 2000 years ago?

and i bet you didn’t know that when islam was followed properly by muslims-westerners used their texts for science and medicine and philosophy

wasalam

 

[planten]

Any religion that requires me or forces me to wear a burqa, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me not to travel alone, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to do repetitive things, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to be seperate from men in gatherings and in society, is no religion for me.

My list is long - islam is not a religion of God - it is an idiology created by a 7th century war monger, power hungry, self made, self claimed “profit” of God - lusting over women, had many many wives and slave girls.

**jakasaki, you need not become a muslim. WE do not need people like you. So do not worry. Nobody is going to invite a woman like you to Islam. You can be on your way wandering alone as you love it. Keep trying and experimenting.

There is no harsh unhealthy thing in Islam. If you do anything bad, of course you will suffer. If you have a soul then you should be more careful when giving bad remarks about other’s beloved senior leaders. Lest the same be applied to your man made god, who never married openly. We don’t know why he did not marry. What was wrong with women.? What did he see wrong with women that he did not marry a woman?? Must be something wromg with the women that your god hated the private company of the womenkind.

That is Another bad point of your religion about the women that your god did not like marriage.**.

 

[seraphime2008]

and i bet you didn’t know that when islam was followed properly by muslims-westerners used their texts for science and medicine and philosophy

AH …C’MON. I never heard any muslim westerners ever won any nobel prize. Please, they were only some muslim westeners who wants to appease Muslim and making money by using text of Koran to try to look as if those verses go with some scientific explanation.

Btw, you can compare how many Christian and Jews scientist have won that prize.

But anyway, this is just OOT, I mean Out of Topic.

Back to topic !

 

[ZAKI]

AH …C’MON. I never heard any muslim westerners ever won any nobel prize. Please, they were only some muslim westeners who wants to appease Muslim and making money by using text of Koran to try to look as if those verses go with some scientific explanation.

Btw, you can compare how many Christian and Jews scientist have won that prize.

But anyway, this is just OOT, I mean Out of Topic.

Back to topic !

i was talking about history. it is a well known fact that muslims during the middle ages had excelled in all scientific and medical and astronomic and philosophic and etcetera fields above the west

wasalam

 

[Sam_777]

Any religion that requires me or forces me to wear a burqa, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me not to travel alone, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to do repetitive things, is no religion for me.

Any religion that requires me or forces me to be seperate from men in gatherings and in society, is no religion for me.

:console:, I agree with all your points expect for the last one, because sometimes I think such gathering might leads to a sin at the end, from people getting drunk to start kissing and at the end committing adultery.

 

[ZAKI]

yes some of the knowledge came from greeks after muslims translated their works into arabic
what im saying is that when islam was applied properly by the muslims it was a shining beacon of light and excelled the west

wasalam

 

[elwill]

So supposedly, will you marry your 9 year old daughter with a man age 54?
I must say that I am not all into laws and regulations and all the considerations made to form certain rules and regulations, but I bet that certain laws introduced in the secular world knowing that it’s not wise to marry too young people since they’re not mature enough in taking responsibilities as couple in marriage that is supposed to make them stand on their own feet.

responsabilities wasn’t that complicated in the desert 1400 years ago , it was custom to marry in such ages between muslims and christians and jews and pagans , and churches never objected such marriage
i agree with you that the time change , afterall it’s silent issue in islam . it’s not obligated upon muslims to marry little girls

It only tells that a secular developing world is better in addressing this problem than your so called holy book of all time and all place. You muslims have tried very hard even on the “words” game to justify it because you can’t annul what you have got in your Koran. The “attack” is not attack at all if you see with clear mind that it is only meant to reveal the truth.

my holy book is of all time and place , my holy book didn’t determine the age of marriage in the first place . even todays there is no common laws about the age of marriage

you didn’t tell me the view of your holy books about the age of marriage ?

let Paul clarifiies this further, but I remember discussing this in other thread with you that you admit that those slaves women are not considered free women, thus not the same level as wives, unless until the master died, and that also with the condition that they bore children for the master. So…when does that mean that it elevate this women to the wive-hood? you are the one playing with words, you think since we don’t know Arab language, you can always go escaping this argument.

yes i remember this discussion , where we was talking about the favor of islam and teaching of mohammed (pbuh) upon the slave women and favor of islam to end slavery gradually in muslims society

read for your self the bible and all its shining glorious teaching, But with your preconception, I guess it will be hard to admit.

i read some of them
1)Women should learn in silence and subjugation.

2)Women should not teach.

3)Women should not have authority over men but should remain silent.

4)Adam and Eve were not equal in sin. Adam was not deceived but Eve was.

5)Women are commanded to be under obedience to men. God ordained that men shall for all time rule over women

6)Women must keep silent in Churches. It is shameful for them to open their mouths therein. If they have a question they should ask their husbands before going to church and then their husbands will ask for them in the church.

7)A woman should neither pray nor profess with her head uncovered.

8)If a woman prays with her head uncovered then she might as well shave her head.

9)Man was created in the image and glory of God, and Woman was created in the glory of Man, thus Man must have power over her.

10)Any woman who delivers a male baby shall be unclean for one week. But any woman who delivers a female baby shall be unclean for TWO weeks. Thus, females make their mothers DOUBLY unclean as compared to males.

11)While it is possible to find one upright man in every thousand, it is impossible to find even one single upright woman in every thousand

12)Woman is a snare, her heart is a trap, and her hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but she will ensnare the sinner.

13)If a woman had her period and touches a chair or a bed or anything else then that item immediately becomes unclean. Anyone who then touches those things shall also become unclean. They must then bathe themselves and wash their clothes because they have touched an item that a menstruous woman has touched

 

[elwill]

I am only stating the main line, but you can find the verses in the bible yourself:

• that the women were entrusted as the witness of Jesus resurrection at the time that women were not hold the trust of witness.

which means ?

• that Mary was entrusted with God’s plan to be the mother of the saviour.

so , the saviour have a mother means that woman be respected in christianity ?

-that women are equal to men in all the teachings.

how that differ than women in islam ?

-that we can find women talking and discussing things with men in equal manner as in the bible.

according to the bible
Women must keep silent in Churches. It is shameful for them to open their mouths therein. If they have a question they should ask their husbands before going to church and then their husbands will ask for them in the church.

and many others I supposed you might find your self if you read the bible.
Btw community situation is a reflection of what they believe, and supported by the teachings that they hold. I believe Christian community has endorsed the belief that men and women are equal well, as opposed to many Muslim countries when women are still facing so many oppression.

what about community situation in the dark period of the west ?

really…really…? that they start thinking as adolescent before they get their menstruation? and that only signifies Islam’s teaching that women before menstruation can get married…and later can be divorced. What ridiculous thing! And you keep thinking that this is instruction from God. Wake up…!!!

it isn’t instructions from God , it’s just solutions for wrong decisions
allah didn’t instruct muslims to divorce thier wifes , he just gave it us as a solution for wrong decisions

But this is about young man and young women, not young women with old men…that’s pedophilia as Muhammad had practiced.

do you wanna to say that it’s okey foe a man to marry 9 yo if he was younger than mohammed (pbuh) ?
do wanna to say that pedophilia isn’t about the little age , rather it’s about age difference between spouses ?

I don’t know that the Jews practiced young marriage at that time, but I believe it’s the same situation with that ethnic marriage I mentioned before, but I don’t believe any Jew would still do that, and they certainly didn’t learn from the Muslim. You on the other hand can’t annul that rule since it’s in your book.

age of marriage never determined in our book , we can marry in any age

Why do Jesus have to address the age of marriage that when all the responsibilities of a wife is clearly mention in the bible, and it’s clearly understood that such responsibilities can not be hold upon a little young girl. Understand?

because it was custom to marry in such little age
anyway , which responsabilities the little girls can’t hold ?

 

[planten]

**Elwill, you have got them tied down very well, if only they understood. Or they applied the right logic or the right terms. They have a god and a father of god and a mother of God. that could make a good family of Gods. Mother of god will not be less than a goddess herself.

Also they have unmarried mothers in the church. And unmarried fathers too. How come they have such mothers and fathers? The problem is that the catholics use all these false terminology. They have a son of God and they insist that he is the real son of God, even more than the real sons. In their old testament, there are many sons of God, one of them is the First born son. Can any one explain these mysteries of the Catholics.

There is no possibility to discuss anything about Woman in Islam, with the Catholics. We Muslims are very much inferior to them because we do not have a walking talking God and we do not have any mother of God. But we have to do something because the Catholics are always active and busy in starting some adverse threads which finally fall back on them in a very bad way.**

 

[elwill]

what is the relation between westerners today and christianity and civilization !!!
the only link i can see is that westerners became more civilized when they abondon the church and abondon thier faith
don’t fool us , and view it as if christianity religion sharing anything in your civilization]

 

[elwill]

**Elwill, you have got them tied down very well, if only they understood. Or they applied the right logic or the right terms. They have a god and a father of god and a mother of God. that could make a good family of Gods. Mother of god will not be less than a goddess herself.
**
hi planten , thank you for your support
i prefer to let the sound of logic judge between us , it’s not for us to judge our arguments , let the third unbiased party to judge

believe me the best mannar in discussion is to ignore the insults and to answer the questions and to ask questions
let them insult you , but never insult them

God bless you

 

[morning_star777]

That is a good thing, to beat the defaulter. You have no law except “Love Thy Enemy.” Is that any sensible thing?

That’s nice planten. So why your Koran only permit wife beating?why wife can not beat her husband if her husband is not faithful? It’s call equal treatment for both men and women?If a wife can’t beat his husband then a husband also can’t beat his wife because husband is not lord to his wife but life partner.

And about “love the enemy’? You muslims are still surviving in this world after so many crimes because bible teaches “Love your enemy”. Neither how can u think that Christians have no ability to protest the Islamic terrorism by violence?Ya all peoples can be like you(Muslim). But bible teaches that “love your enemy” and that’s why Christians do not take revenge.If any one criticize Islam then all Muslims(even liberals) become mad in anger. They start crime,they carry placards what is full of hatred,and they beat non muslims for that,they burn vehicles etc etc…They show violence every where. For this book “the satanic verses” Salman rushdi is still on death threat.All moderate Muslims also want to kill him. for danish cartoons the violence of Muslims crossed all limits then still you think that your religion has any types of law? This religion what ordered muslims to murder non muslims. But see planten, bible teaches “love the enemy”. And that’s why Christians didn’t show any violence for your favorite book The Da Vinci Code?Or did christians show violence against the film "the last temptation of Christ’? And for the violence of Muslims ,even we can not read the satanic verses.I can not open that Danish carton here. It is blocked here. Do you know? So it is the religion of peace that teaches wife beating and insulting wife? Is it honor? so before criticizing bible’s teaching try to find your own scriptures hateful teaching and also try to find your Muslim’s violence.

**That is okay and practical. Your system is impractical. Church has been teaching that there is never to be a divorce. Christians revolted against it and made their own laws. Where went your bible on that day when christians applied to the courts for divorce? Your religion had fully failed (gone with the wind) on that day and the religion of Islam was proved true and practical.
Polygamy is similar. It is good and necessary sometime. **

So polygamy is good? Then why bash Hollywood stars? Oh I see polygamy is good and necessary but only for men correct? Remember planten our religion is not failed but your religion is inhumane. Men are physically stronger than women so it is easy for men to oppress women for the sake of purity. Your self claimed prophet and his followers do so because you( Muslims) are the worshiper of power and strength and your Muhammed was thirsty for power. So be sure, it is not human law that teaches oppression to women who has less physical strengths. Just remember, elephants, tigers, lions and many other beasts are physically stronger than man but they are not greater than us . So Islam is not perfect for human life but perhaps perfect for wild life who always love to show their strengths to lesser physical powers.remember planten, physical power is really nothing.

 

[Selene]

That is a good thing, to beat the defaulter. You have no law except “Love Thy Enemy.” Is that any sensible thing?

Salaam,

Actually, to love thy enemy makes a lot of sense. God created mankind in His image, and we are all His children. We call Him Father, and like a Father, He loves all humans even when they do bad. This is what any parent does. I’m sure that you also love your own children even when do bad things. The God we believe in is like that for He is all-loving.

Furthermore, when one loves thy enemy, it can move mountains. To love your enemy is not to fight against them. If they hit you, you turn the other cheek. Martin Luther King Jr. used this method and as a result, he was able to get a lot of civil rights reforms passed. Ghandi, who is not Christian, also used this method against the British. And he managed to get the British out of India. Corazon Aquino also used this method and ended up toppling a dictator. Therefore, Jesus Christ knew what He was talking about when He taught this.

Again samething. Do you have any law for the inheritance of woman. Do not talk about the present day. Talk from your lovely book and bring anything about the inheritance for women. You had practically dis-inherited the women.

My friend and Muslim brother, you misunderstand Christianity. Christianity was never about our book. Christianity is about the Word of God, and when I say “Word of God” I am speaking about the “Living” Word. This Living Word has a name. His name is Jesus Christ. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "the Christian faith is not a “religion of the book.” Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, a word which is “not written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living” (CCC 108). How we live our faith speaks more. For example, Mother Theresa lived her faith and that speaks more about who we are as Christians.

**That is okay and practical. Your system is impractical. Church has been teaching that there is never to be a divorce. Christians revolted against it and made their own laws. Where went your bible on that day when christians applied to the courts for divorce? Your religion had fully failed (gone with the wind) on that day and the religion of Islam was proved true and practical.

Polygamy is similar. It is good and necessary sometime. But islam says that one wife is the best. Then there are conditions in Islam for having a second wife. There is no harm in having a second wife ( by marriage ) instead of what your people are doing, having sex with secretaries and concubines. That is a sinful life. Islam does not allow it.**

Our faith still says that divorce is wrong and that adultry and premarital sex are also wrong. Polygamy is also wrong. There is no justification for having more than one wife because Eve was created only for Adam. The fact that divorce and premarital sex exists in our society only shows that we are imperfect human beings. Only God is perfect. We are all sinners, and our faith teaches us this. For a Christian to say that he/she is not a sinner would be a lie and a blasphemy to the Holy Spirit. Surely, you are not telling me that in Islam, all muslims are perfect and not sinners?

I do not enter into hadith matters. But that must be true when the hell will have most of the sinning christian ladies in it too.

Is not the Hadith part of Muslim faith? Yes, I have read the part in the Hadith about more women in hell than men. And why are there more women in hell when we know for a fact that on earth men commit more crimes and offenses than women. You see more men in prisons than women because statistically men commit more crimes and offenses. It is the men who go to wars rather than the women. Most men are leaders of countries, and they’re the ones ordering the wars. So, one must wonder why the Hadith claim to have more women in hell. In Christianity, only the unrepentent sinners are in hell. These are people who have committed very serious sins and have no remorse or repentence for their sins and want no part of Heaven.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[jakasaki]

Reading the foreign news this morning, I thought this would be the appropriate thread to add this current news story.

07/21/2009 12:03 BANGLADESH

Bangladesh, a minor pregnant after rape: beaten and forced to marry her torturer

For months, the imam of a village in the district of Faridpur abused the girl, who did not denounce the man for “fear and shame.” The young girl is seventh months pregnant, a premature birth is likely. The local council has condemned both to 101 lashes with a cane.

Please everyone, pray for this soul.

Omar Faruk is a teacher from the “Maktab”, the village Islamic school. The imam has long abused the minor, taking advantage of the position of prestige within the local community. The girl is in the seventh month of pregnancy, her physical and mental health are not good, and she risks a premature birth.

…

In recent weeks, Annie Halder, a Catholic activist, denounced a continued growth in the instances of violence, especially against "anyone who decides to convert to Christianity”. Among others, the woman recalled the case of Christina Gomez Goni, “killed by extremists” for apostasy.

Link enclosed to read the whole article…

asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=15836&size=A

 

[sedonaman]

don’t tell me that you can’t imagine how people was travele in desert 1400 years ago , and how dangerous was it for a man ( not woman ) to travel alone

It is very easy to imagine that he might get ambushed by one of Mohammad’s raiding parties.

 

[jakasaki]

correct , do you think either that mary wasn’t one of his wives ?

In the winter of 2009, way before you joined CAF - we had a thread discussing Mary the Copt, Aisha and Hafsa

Re: Muhammad , hafsa, Aisha and the slave-girl Mary

Here is the link to the whole thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=311558&highlight=copt

Now, much research was done for Mary the Copt from legitimate islamic sources and sites, and not using anti-islamic sites.

Some islamic sites claimed mohamad **did not marry **Mary the Copt, while others guessed that he did.

If you have time, read the thread.

The conclusion of the islamic sites stated that mohamad did not marry Mary the Copt and we do know that Mary gave birth to a boy which was named Ibrahim.

If I remember correctly, the baby Ibrahim died young.

 

[morning_star777]

Reading the foreign news this morning, I thought this would be the appropriate thread to add this current news story.

07/21/2009 12:03 BANGLADESH

Bangladesh, a minor pregnant after rape: beaten and forced to marry her torturer

Unfortunately It is common in my country Bangladesh.It is not the 1st news jakasaki. Here in Bangladesh this types of occurrence always happens.Even some rape victims are declared as a prostitute by religious leaders,because by proving them prostitute, the Mollahs want to protect the rapists…Although Bangladesh is a moderate Muslim country but it is a heaven of rapists.here(in Bangladesh) rapists are sometimes sheltered by some political leaders, and often sheltered by religious leaders.Pakistan is much horrific than Bangladesh,one day I read an article about it in a native news paper. Two girls raped by police in pakistan because they were late when returning home in an evening.

So police caught them and took them into prison and then continuously raped them.And then,I am sure that you guess the next result.

BTW,and in bangladesh another crime is very common and it’s called acid terrorism.Men through acid to the face of women.Both rape and acid terrorism’s highest penalty is death according to Bangladesh law, but unfortunately religious leaders or local powerful persons can suppress that types of news so criminal don’t get punishment but victims get it.victims are punished by religious leaders . 202 lashes for married woman and 101 for unmarried.I have read this new style of lash number from a native news paper.But here Mollahs at least can’t stone people for adultery, because if they will do so,then they will be hanged,because death news is not easy to hide.
Anyway lets pray for the victim.

 

[elwill]

In the winter of 2009, way before you joined CAF - we had a thread discussing Mary the Copt, Aisha and Hafsa

Here is the link to the whole thread.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=311558&highlight=copt

Now, much research was done for Mary the Copt from legitimate islamic sources and sites, and not using anti-islamic sites.

Some islamic sites claimed mohamad **did not marry **Mary the Copt, while others guessed that he did.

If you have time, read the thread.

The conclusion of the islamic sites stated that mohamad did not marry Mary the Copt and we do know that Mary gave birth to a boy which was named Ibrahim.
If I remember correctly, the baby Ibrahim died young.

i will appreciate if you give me your islamic site first

 

[jakasaki]

i will appreciate if you give me your islamic site first

Elwill - if you read the thread, everything I’ve contributed to the subject has the islamic links attached.

 

[morning_star777]

i will appreciate if you give me your islamic site first

If you do not believe then no problem.Nothing will be changed if you don’t believe.I am from bangladesh.I often read this types of news and sometimes Govt took action against the criminals.But sometimes criminals acts very smartly and suppress the news from news channels too.I know very well that it is a very common crime in present days bangladesh. not rape.rape is old crime but punishing the rape victims, is the recent crime here.