Woman in Islam.

[elwill]

Elwill - if you read the thread, everything I’ve contributed to the subject has the islamic links attached.

but while i’m reading your subject , i find out that all islamic links attached saying that mary the copt was his wife

 

[morning_star777]

If you do not believe then no problem.Nothing will be changed if you don’t believe.I am from bangladesh.I often read this types of news and sometimes Govt took action against the criminals.But sometimes criminals acts very smartly and suppress the news from news channels too.I know very well that it is a very common crime in present days bangladesh. not rape.rape is old crime but punishing the rape victims, is the recent crime here.

My apologies elwill:blush:, it was a misunderstanding.I have read the wrong post.I was not conscious because my attention was to the other post ,so I have misquoted your post.So sorry for my previous post where I misquoted.(#82)t:blush:It was just a mistake,an unconscious mistake.

 

[jakasaki]

but while i’m reading your subject , i find out that all islamic links attached saying that mary the copt was his wife

By your post, you’ve shown me that you did not read the entire thread.

**

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4819234&postcount=64**

Looking for something else in this islam Q&A site, I came across this and now I’m baffled because the other “reputable” islamic sites said mohamad was married to Maria the Copt and this one claims Maria as a “slave girl”… - NOT married to mohamad…

With regard to his female slaves, he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had four female slaves.

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

Abu ‘Ubaydah said: He had four: Maariyah who was the mother of his son Ibraaheem; Rayhaanah; another beautiful slave women who he got among some of the prisoners of war; and a slave woman who was given to him by Zaynab bint Jahsh.
Zaad al-Ma’aad, 1/114.

Islam Q&A

islamqa.com/en/ref/13344

**…**and again this Q&A confirms that Maria the Copt was not married to mohammad… ****

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4819337&postcount=65

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah, rather she was his concubine. The Muqawqis, the ruler of Egypt, gave her as gift to him after the Treaty of al-Hudaybiyah.

islamqa.com/en/ref/45645

 

[elwill]

My apologies elwill:blush:, it was a misunderstanding.I have read the wrong post.I was not conscious because my attention was to the other post ,so I have misquoted your post.So sorry for my previous post where I misquoted.(#82)t:blush:It was just a mistake,an unconscious mistake.

it’s okey morning_star777

 

[Paul_89_33]

interpretation of the verse dosn’t need any school , words of quran is clear in its meaning
anyway , what is wrong with marrying slaves or captives , i really can’t understand why you complains
.

not all quran is so clear … anyway since you are sunni not shiit
i have no problem to repet the rule for you : anyone can not explain the quran by himself and by his interpretation but hemay return to the 4 explainers ( tabari qortobi aljalalyn ibnkathir)
and again man
you change the sences of things
is not marrying captives …it’s make them a slaves for all their lives
may i repet ?
the captive woman is not a wife she still always a captive woman

exactly , my point is that quran didn’t call those women slaves , rather it called them malakat yamin , the differ is that this expression refere to thier rights upon thier masters. pre-islam slaves were as an animals havn’t no rights upon thier masters , but islam and the prophet give them some of the rights and partial freedom as a positive step to end slavery gradually

hah

• First :

malakat alyamin = slaves ; why? because malakat alyamin mean :
malakat = your property
and malakat alyamin = (اماء imae) = slaves at all

• second :

islam didn’t gave to the slaves women anyright
or lately the same rights given to the wives the free women
review the verse 3 of sourat annisa
don’t forget you aren’t talking to a normal guy … no you’re talking to an MURTAD and proud to be
and knowing very well his ex fake religion

why i have to feel shame where i find it the best religion in the earth

you don’t feel shame because your religion legalise raping and taking women as slaves ? just for raping their and for sex
are you serious man ?

show me that your religion is better than mine ,and i promise to you that i will convert to your religion , so can you show me if christianity is more better than islam with dealing with slaves or women ?

man there is not slave women in christianity ;; don’t you know that’s is christianity there is no divorce and just the alone wife for all the life !!!
and we aren’t talking about this in this topic
you can a new topic in the convent forum and talk about what do you want in christianity

anyway , it’s not allowed now because slavery not common practice these days alhamdo lellah

not allowed now alhamdo lillah ??!!
why alhamdo lillah ? you disgust from your religion and your prophet ?
isen’t that’s your statue ? so why you are so happy when it stop right now ?
don’t you know that’s if the islamic countries began strongs again and made wars against non muslims can take the women as slaves !!!
don’t you know this ???

well , what is the name of this copt slave ?

she’s Maris the copt and mohamed did not marry her ever
that’s what you Sirah books says !

2- Women who have not had their monthly period at the time of the divorce.
For point #2, it doesn’t necessarily have to mean that the woman was a young girl. To me, it is clearly talking about the wife not having her period yet when the divorce happened.

i’m sorry to telling you that’s you’re false
the verse mean 100/100 the little girl not unwell yet
please review what the explainers says
and true mohamd legalise pedophilia

 

[sedonaman]

…
and we aren’t talking about this in this topic you can a new topic in the convent forum and talk about what do you want in christianity …

for cutting short that Muslim game of changing the subject.

 

[elwill]

By your post, you’ve shown me that you did not read the entire thread.

well , so some of the accounts said that she was her wife and other accounts said she wasn’t
so it’s doubtious issue !!!

but what about for the sake of discussion assumed that he established relationship with her , why may he did that !
slave-girl living with a person as a maid only, she will serve him, but he is not allowed to establish any sexual relationship with her. but if he decides to keep her as a partner, then he can establish a relationship with her, and then she will be freed as soon as she delivers any baby for him. Also, he will be the only person who has a relationship with her. This solution prevents any kind of prostitution, and at the same time, **it finally leads towards the freedom of these concubines. **

after all , there is no reliable or actual evidence that he didn’t married her , it’s all weak reports

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=elwill;5474328]well , so some of the accounts said that she was her wife and other accounts said she wasn’t

Yup - they are islamic sources - some said he was married to her, while others said he was not. It’s amazing they all can’t get their story straight about mohamad.

With regard to his** female slaves**, he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had four female slaves.

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

Abu ‘Ubaydah said: He had four: Maariyah who was the mother of his son Ibraaheem

So Maria was not only his slave, but a sex slave which he impregnated. Gotta love your prophet.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry Maariyah al-Qibtiyyah, rather she was his concubine.

Mary was his “concubine”

but what about for the sake of discussion assumed that he established relationship with her , why may he did that !

I try not to assume anything - this is why I check out islamic sources to see what is written about mohamad.

As you know mohamad had so many wives - more than any muslim man can have - allah gave mohamad unlimited wives but a typical muslim man can only have up to 4.

The only conclusion is what I’ve said before, mohamad lusted over women and he got what he wanted.

slave-girl living with a person as a maid only, she will serve him, but he is not allowed to establish any sexual relationship with her.

According to your islamic sources, Mary the Copt was a slave women and mohamad had sexual relations with this woman and she ended up pregnant with a baby which was named Ibrahim.

Don’t you even read and research?? Why is it I know more than you??

but if he decides to keep her as a partner, then he can establish a relationship with her, and then she will be freed as soon as she delivers any baby for him.

Were the 9 wives not enough for mohamad? Apparently not! So he went after the slave women.

Also, he will be the only person who has a relationship with her.

Oh, that’s a comforting thought - I guess going from tent to tent, wife to wife, was not enough for mohamad the prophet of allah.

This solution prevents any kind of prostitution, and at the same time,

Really - this makes mohamad what we call here in the states a “pimp” and only used Mary the Copt for his own pleasures.

**it finally leads towards the freedom of these concubines. **

Mary the Copt was free from mohamads desires when he mohamad died.

after all , there is no reliable or actual evidence that he didn’t married her , it’s all weak reports

If you find the sites which I posted as “unreliable”, well then, my suggestion is this.

Go to them, they all have a “contact us” icon on their site.

You write to them and tell them that their information is all wrong.

 

[Jay53]

well , so some of the accounts said that she was her wife and other accounts said she wasn’t
so it’s doubtious issue !!!

but what about for the sake of discussion assumed that he established relationship with her , why may he did that !
slave-girl living with a person as a maid only, she will serve him, but he is not allowed to establish any sexual relationship with her. but if he decides to keep her as a partner, then he can establish a relationship with her, and then she will be freed as soon as she delivers any baby for him. Also, he will be the only person who has a relationship with her. This solution prevents any kind of prostitution, and at the same time, **it finally leads towards the freedom of these concubines. **

after all , there is no reliable or actual evidence that he didn’t married her , it’s all weak reports

This is my problem with this whole issue - why couldn’t Muhammad just have freed her without having sex with her and impregnating her. Wasn’t he noble enough to do that - or his lusts and pleasure was more important? She has to wait until he dies or he impregnates her before she can “earn” her freedom!

 

[jakasaki]

This is my problem with this whole issue - why couldn’t Muhammad just have freed her without having sex with her and impregnating her. Wasn’t he noble enough to do that - or his lusts and pleasure was more important? She has to wait until he dies or he impregnates her before she can “earn” her freedom!

Well, the same can be said of his adopted son’s wife which mohamad lusted over her as well.

You know the story already, he told his adopted son Zaid to divorce his wife so mohamad can have her as his wife.

Narrated Qatada:

Anas bin Malik said,

“The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number.”

I asked Anas, “Had the Prophet the strength for it?”

Anas replied, “We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men).”

And Sa’id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).

Bukhari, volume 1, #268.

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.

Bukhari, volume 7, # 142.

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=elwill;5469383]

~ snip ~

a girl can be married prior to puberty, but consummation and her moving into his home may only occur at the onset of puberty or later. So sexual relations before puberty is not possible in islam, since nikkah canonly be consummated when a girl reaches puberty or the general age of puberty. As the hadith about Aishah’s age show, her betrothal took place at least three years before the consummation of the marriage. The reason for this was that they were waiting for her to come of age, i.e. to have her first menstrual period.

According to 65:4 tafsir from an islamic source which I’ll post states otherwise regarding the statement I bolded in your quote:

They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age, or delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women, or because of no discharge at all throughout life which, though rare, may also be the case.

In any case, the waiting-period of such a woman is the same as of the woman, who has stopped menstruation, that is three months from the time divorce was pronounced.

Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Qur’an the question of the waiting period arises in respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49).

**Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her.

Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible. **

searchtruth.com/tafsir/tafsir.php?chapter=65

 

[sedonaman]

…
She has to wait until he dies or he impregnates her before she can “earn” her freedom!

No. She can just get too old to be useful, and then he can free her to fend for herself … and he gets a bonus in heaven for freeing a slave!

 

[Jay53]

No. She can just get too old to be useful, and then he can free her to fend for herself … and he gets a bonus in heaven for freeing a slave!

It just seems that Muhammad can lead by example in the case of marrying his stepson’s wife to show that that was permissable and changing how adoption was viewed, but he couldn’t lead by example in just freeing slaves or keeping his grubby hands off of them!!!

 

[sedonaman]

I don’t remember which, but in this series of lectures [page down on the left], one made a point I had never encountered before: in Islam, there is no right or wrong … only what is permitted and what is forbidden. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[jakasaki]

It just seems that Muhammad can lead by example in the case of marrying his stepson’s wife to show that that was permissable and changing how adoption was viewed, but he couldn’t lead by example in just freeing slaves or keeping his grubby hands off of them!!!

**“Surely in the Messenger of God you have a good example”. **

Koran chapter 33:21

The muslims love 33.21 and emulate him and his examples to this very day.

 

[jakasaki]

I don’t remember which, but in this series of lectures [page down on the left], one made a point I had never encountered before: in Islam, there is no right or wrong … only what is permitted and what is forbidden. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Yes, there is no right or wrong as “we” see things in life, to the muslims it’s either “halal” or “haram”

Allowed or forbidden.

And all of the “halal” and “haram” things are in the koran and some muslims follow the hadiths which also tells them what’s allowed and what’s not allowed.

I believe the word they use is “permissible” or “not permissible”.

But the muslim members can explain it better than I can…

 

[elwill]

Yup - they are islamic sources - some said he was married to her, while others said he was not. It’s amazing they all can’t get their story straight about mohamad.

So Maria was not only his slave, but a sex slave which he impregnated. Gotta love your prophet.

Mary was his “concubine”

I try not to assume anything - this is why I check out islamic sources to see what is written about mohamad.

As you know mohamad had so many wives - more than any muslim man can have - allah gave mohamad unlimited wives but a typical muslim man can only have up to 4.

The only conclusion is what I’ve said before, mohamad lusted over women and he got what he wanted.

According to your islamic sources, Mary the Copt was a slave women and mohamad had sexual relations with this woman and she ended up pregnant with a baby which was named Ibrahim.

Don’t you even read and research?? Why is it I know more than you??

Were the 9 wives not enough for mohamad? Apparently not! So he went after the slave women.

Oh, that’s a comforting thought - I guess going from tent to tent, wife to wife, was not enough for mohamad the prophet of allah.

Really - this makes mohamad what we call here in the states a “pimp” and only used Mary the Copt for his own pleasures.

Mary the Copt was free from mohamads desires when he mohamad died.

If you find the sites which I posted as “unreliable”, well then, my suggestion is this.

Go to them, they all have a “contact us” icon on their site.

You write to them and tell them that their information is all wrong.

its time to prove once again, that Mariyah the Copt, was indeed Prophet (S) wife, and wasn’t his concubine

Firstly, there are 2 cases of concubines:

1. Slave-girl who is living as a maid only, in which she will serve him, but will not have any relationship with him, (which is obviously not the case with Mariyah, since she bore him Ibraheem)
2. And the final case is if he decides to keep her as a partner, (Note: She will still be his slave)

No.1, is obviously not the case, so we are left with no.2. But, a question arises, how can Mariyah the Copt, who is said to be a “slave girl”, render any service to the Prophet (S), or any of his wives, when she herself resided in the outskirts of the city. M. Tayyib Baksh Budayuni, the translator of Sirat-Un-Nabi, says something similar, here is what he says:

" The Author discusses the report about Mariyah Qibtiyah mainly on the basis of weak reports. As to circumstantial evidence, he only points out that it is unthinkable in the case of a character so superbly moral and modest as of the Prophet. But it may also be pointed out that the holy wives are said to begin their protest against Mariyah some two years after her coming over to the Prophet, which makes the whole story extremely doubtful. Again that Mariyah has been living as a slave-girl, is higly improbably as was residing away from the Mosque on the outskirts of the city and could not 'therefore, render any domestic service to the Prophet or any of the other wives. The situation of her residence also rules out the probability of Hafsa breaking into her privacy. Moreover, the 'Allamah has already proved that Mariyah Qibtiyah was not a slave-girl, but a duly wedded wife of the Prophet and that she came of a respectable family of the Egyptians. To call her a slave-girl is in itself a distortion of facts- Translator"
(Source: Sirat Un Nabi, Vol.II, p.233-234, Footnote#2)

 

[elwill]

This is my problem with this whole issue - why couldn’t Muhammad just have freed her without having sex with her and impregnating her. Wasn’t he noble enough to do that - or his lusts and pleasure was more important? She has to wait until he dies or he impregnates her before she can “earn” her freedom!

i believe that he married her

 

[Paul_89_33]

not all quran is so clear … anyway since you are sunni not shiit
i have no problem to repet the rule for you : anyone can not explain the quran by himself and by his interpretation but hemay return to the 4 explainers ( tabari qortobi aljalalyn ibnkathir)
and again man
you change the sences of things
is not marrying captives …it’s make them a slaves for all their lives
may i repet ?
the captive woman is not a wife she still always a captive woman

hah

• First :

malakat alyamin = slaves ; why? because malakat alyamin mean :
malakat = your property
and malakat alyamin = (اماء imae) = slaves at all

• second :

islam didn’t gave to the slaves women anyright
or lately the same rights given to the wives the free women
review the verse 3 of sourat annisa
don’t forget you aren’t talking to a normal guy … no you’re talking to an MURTAD and proud to be
and knowing very well his ex fake religion

you don’t feel shame because your religion legalise raping and taking women as slaves ? just for raping their and for sex
are you serious man ?

man there is not slave women in christianity ;; don’t you know that’s is christianity there is no divorce and just the alone wife for all the life !!!
and we aren’t talking about this in this topic
you can a new topic in the convent forum and talk about what do you want in christianity

not allowed now alhamdo lillah ??!!

why alhamdo lillah ? you disgust from your religion and your prophet ?
isen’t that’s your statue ? so why you are so happy when it stop right now ?
don’t you know that’s if the islamic countries began strongs again and made wars against non muslims can take the women as slaves !!!
don’t you know this ???

she’s Maris the copt and mohamed did not marry her ever
that’s what you Sirah books says !

i’m sorry to telling you that’s you’re false
the verse mean 100/100 the little girl not unwell yet
please review what the explainers says
and true mohamd legalise pedophilia

up up for the brother elwill:blush:

 

[Reuben_J]

i believe that he married her

Wouldn’t that make him exceeded the number of wives permissible for one man?

What could be the most pressing reasons to have so many wives if not to satisfy his lust? A lust that is uncontrollable and a man who was unable to control it. I understand it is just human to be like that but holy cow wasn’t he supposed to be the prophet, an example that every man to follow? Don’t you guys believe in the grace of God that helps with one’s self-control?