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PrayingTwice
Guest
I would like some suggestions of resources (books and internet sites) explaining the exclusion of women in the priesthood. This is a tough issue with a lot of catholics and non-catholics alike.
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The_Barrister
Guest
Indeed.
I suggest this article maybe of some assistance.
Excerpt:
“Catholic women have played a central role in the life of the Church, from Lydia in the Acts of the Apostles, through Margaret of Scotland and Jadwiga of Poland and other great queens and women of influence, to the Englishwomen at the Reformation who arranged secret places for Mass, down to Edith Stein, whose quest for intellectual and spiritual truth led her to convent life and did not spare her Auschwitz. In no sense is there any authentic tradition of “If you’re not a priest you simply don’t matter,” despite fashionable attempts to present this as a standard part of Catholicism.”
I suggest this article maybe of some assistance.
Excerpt:
“Catholic women have played a central role in the life of the Church, from Lydia in the Acts of the Apostles, through Margaret of Scotland and Jadwiga of Poland and other great queens and women of influence, to the Englishwomen at the Reformation who arranged secret places for Mass, down to Edith Stein, whose quest for intellectual and spiritual truth led her to convent life and did not spare her Auschwitz. In no sense is there any authentic tradition of “If you’re not a priest you simply don’t matter,” despite fashionable attempts to present this as a standard part of Catholicism.”
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1ke
Guest
A book I would suggest is Twelve Tough Issues: What The Catholic Church Teaches And Why by Archbishop Daniel E. Pilarczyk. Actually, there is a revised version I think called “more 12 tough issues” or something like that.
Online I’d suggest going to www.ewtn.com and searching the document library with the keywords “women” and “ordination”. Go to ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2ORDIN.HTM to read the Apostolic Letter ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS.
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Myhrr
Guest
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Myhrr - Do note that despite their protestations the site you link to is non-Catholic by definition. One cannot be Catholic and support the ordination of women.
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Mjohn1453
Guest
It does such a diservice to all the great women of the Church to say that women are considered inferior just because they cannot be ordained. Hats off to whoever wrote that list of greats. Lets add Catherine of Siena, Therese of Avila, Blessed Therese of Calcutta, and Therese of Lisieux.
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Peg
Guest
Since the pope has made it clear that women priests are not an option maybe we should encourage these women to aspire to be Doctors of the Church through their orthodox teaching and support of the true teachings.
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Les_Richardson
Guest
Excellent suggestion.
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Matt16_18
Guest
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OhioBob
Guest
When has the Church ever said that women are considered inferior because they cannot be ordained?
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Tom_of_Assisi
Guest
wouldn’t a female priest–be a priestess?
In religions that have priestesses, don’t the priestesses have different ritual functions than the priests. This may or may not have any bearing on the actual question here, but I thought I would toss it out.
In religions that have priestesses, don’t the priestesses have different ritual functions than the priests. This may or may not have any bearing on the actual question here, but I thought I would toss it out.
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Bill_Buck
Guest
Some Catholics don’t see anything wrong with “woman priests” because they do not understand the role of a priest. Some see the priest as a teacher, administrator, manager, and fundraiser. The priest does all of these things and more. The Church encourages the laity to fill many of these roles. Some Catholics don’t understand that the role of the priest is to offer and be a sacrifice, not just the sacrifices we are called to make but a very particular sacrifice.
The Church has taught that Jesus is the Messiah, Priest, Prophet and King promised to the Jewish people by God. Jesus is the Eternal High Priest and the One and Only Sacrifice for the redemption of mankind. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Passover; he is the one true “Lamb of God”. (Revelation 5: 6)
At the time of the Passover, when God directed the Israelites to procure a lamb for sacrifice, it was to meet certain qualifications. (Exodus 12, 5) "The lamb must be a year-old male and without blemish… " Requirements were set on how to treat the sacrificial meal. (Exodus 12, 46) The church saw the completion of the Passover promise in the death and resurrection of Jesus. (John 19:36)
The Eucharist is not just a memorial meal or a reenactment.It is not a re-crucifixion of Jesus time and time again but is the once and for all sacrifice. The Eucharistic celebration that you attended today is the same bloody sacrifice that occurred over that first Easter. It is the same celebration that was done under the cover of darkness in the catacombs of Rome, in the prison camps of Nazi Germany and Communist Poland. It is the same celebration envisioned in the Book of Revelation.
To the early Church, the priest was also both the offering of the holocaust and the holocaust. Only a man ordained by an Apostle or his successors could fill this role. The Church provides the men who by apostolic succession sacrifice themselves to become Christ for us. The priest by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders acts in the person of Christ. (CCC 1548) The priest, not by any merit of his own but in a special way, is Jesus Christ offering Himself as The Sacrifice.
Contrary to current popular opinion, the notion of “woman priests” was not uncommon at the time of the early church. Priestesses were the norm among the gentiles and their pagan religions. It would not have been a great social breach to ordain woman at that time.
God has ordained that woman shall bear children. This is an act of sacrifice unique to woman. God has given woman the unique gift of a womb; a vessel that allows women to carry one of God’s most precious gifts, life. Women can offer their own bodies in a sacrificial way that men cannot do.
Abortion is an abomination because it takes this “ark” which God has chosen to place his creation and changes it to a place of death. The concept of a man, through surgery, having a womb placed in him so he could carry a child is a perversion. It stinks of mankind seeking dominance over the will of God. No matter what surgeries would occur to that man, he would still be a man and would not be a “mother” of a child.
The move to have priestesses, if allowed to reach its completion, would destroy the priesthood. If a woman were to dress in vestments and mimic the words of the consecration this would be an abomination. There would be no consecration; there would be no sacrifice. It would be an act of seeking dominance over the will of God.
In the traditions of the Old Testament it was the man who offered the blood sacrifice necessary for the atonement of sins. God began from the sin of Adam and Eve to prepare humanity for the sacrifice of Jesus to redeem us from the death of sin. In the fulfillment of the New Testament, a Woman’s (Mary’s) act of sacrifice (her obedience to God’s Will) gives physical life and she fulfills a role that is also sacred, in giving the Sacrifice flesh and blood. Her body gives what the Cross takes.
The Church has taught that Jesus is the Messiah, Priest, Prophet and King promised to the Jewish people by God. Jesus is the Eternal High Priest and the One and Only Sacrifice for the redemption of mankind. Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Passover; he is the one true “Lamb of God”. (Revelation 5: 6)
At the time of the Passover, when God directed the Israelites to procure a lamb for sacrifice, it was to meet certain qualifications. (Exodus 12, 5) "The lamb must be a year-old male and without blemish… " Requirements were set on how to treat the sacrificial meal. (Exodus 12, 46) The church saw the completion of the Passover promise in the death and resurrection of Jesus. (John 19:36)
The Eucharist is not just a memorial meal or a reenactment.It is not a re-crucifixion of Jesus time and time again but is the once and for all sacrifice. The Eucharistic celebration that you attended today is the same bloody sacrifice that occurred over that first Easter. It is the same celebration that was done under the cover of darkness in the catacombs of Rome, in the prison camps of Nazi Germany and Communist Poland. It is the same celebration envisioned in the Book of Revelation.
To the early Church, the priest was also both the offering of the holocaust and the holocaust. Only a man ordained by an Apostle or his successors could fill this role. The Church provides the men who by apostolic succession sacrifice themselves to become Christ for us. The priest by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders acts in the person of Christ. (CCC 1548) The priest, not by any merit of his own but in a special way, is Jesus Christ offering Himself as The Sacrifice.
Contrary to current popular opinion, the notion of “woman priests” was not uncommon at the time of the early church. Priestesses were the norm among the gentiles and their pagan religions. It would not have been a great social breach to ordain woman at that time.
God has ordained that woman shall bear children. This is an act of sacrifice unique to woman. God has given woman the unique gift of a womb; a vessel that allows women to carry one of God’s most precious gifts, life. Women can offer their own bodies in a sacrificial way that men cannot do.
Abortion is an abomination because it takes this “ark” which God has chosen to place his creation and changes it to a place of death. The concept of a man, through surgery, having a womb placed in him so he could carry a child is a perversion. It stinks of mankind seeking dominance over the will of God. No matter what surgeries would occur to that man, he would still be a man and would not be a “mother” of a child.
The move to have priestesses, if allowed to reach its completion, would destroy the priesthood. If a woman were to dress in vestments and mimic the words of the consecration this would be an abomination. There would be no consecration; there would be no sacrifice. It would be an act of seeking dominance over the will of God.
In the traditions of the Old Testament it was the man who offered the blood sacrifice necessary for the atonement of sins. God began from the sin of Adam and Eve to prepare humanity for the sacrifice of Jesus to redeem us from the death of sin. In the fulfillment of the New Testament, a Woman’s (Mary’s) act of sacrifice (her obedience to God’s Will) gives physical life and she fulfills a role that is also sacred, in giving the Sacrifice flesh and blood. Her body gives what the Cross takes.
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bengal_fan
Guest
** Catholic for a Reason** has a great chapter on the priest as a spiritual father and why women aren’t created to fill that role (just like men aren’t created to be mothers).
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Melchior
Guest
1 Timothy 2:12 makes it pretty clear.
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Apologia100
Guest
Myhrr said:
Here is the only perspective that interests me. The Church Universal says “No Women Priests”. That is good enough for me. I don’t have the audacity to argue with 2,000 years of prayerful insight and reflection on this matter.
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nordskoven
Guest
There are forensic, legal reasons why women are not degraded with the priestesshood. God made Adam and put him in charge of life on Earth before Woman (a title) was ever created. Stewardship of life was Adam’s ultimate responsibilty. Adam was given final authority.
Original Sin is called the “Sin of Adam.” Adam blew the job that was uniquely his. Adam tried to blame the Woman. But that doesn’t fly. Christ, the Second Adam, came to conquer sin and death introduced into the world after the Sin of Adam.
Woman was given her own final authority as God’s curse upon Lucifer, and this final authority flows through her to her Seed. Christ worked under these two separate but entwined authorities: Steward of Life; Conqueror of Lucifer and his seed.
Priestesshood is to blame the Woman for not doing Adam’s job and for bringing sin and death into the world. Like a fan who runs in from the sidelines and catches a pass and makes a touchdown, Woman can perform the act but is not legally qualified to make it count.
Original Sin is called the “Sin of Adam.” Adam blew the job that was uniquely his. Adam tried to blame the Woman. But that doesn’t fly. Christ, the Second Adam, came to conquer sin and death introduced into the world after the Sin of Adam.
Woman was given her own final authority as God’s curse upon Lucifer, and this final authority flows through her to her Seed. Christ worked under these two separate but entwined authorities: Steward of Life; Conqueror of Lucifer and his seed.
Priestesshood is to blame the Woman for not doing Adam’s job and for bringing sin and death into the world. Like a fan who runs in from the sidelines and catches a pass and makes a touchdown, Woman can perform the act but is not legally qualified to make it count.
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Detroit_Sue
Guest
Myhrr said:
That site is full of heretics and kooks. Just my :twocents:.
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pnewton
Guest
Myhrr said:
I am reminded of the parable of the two sons where one said he would do what the father asked and then failed to follow through. The one that did the will of the father was the one who obeyed, not the one who paid lip service.
These peolpe say, “We fully accept the authority of the Pope. We respect his personal integrity as an outstanding spiritual leader.” Then they disobey him by continuing this arguement, then they make themselves to be liars and they buy into the schemes of the enemy.
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
The Ordination of Women to the Catholic Priesthood
by Rev. John A. Hardon, S. J.
therealpresence.org/archives/Priesthood/Priesthood_009.htm
Women, Ordination, and Angels
by Michael Novak
firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9304/articles/novak.html
Priestesses in the Church
by C.S. Lewis
huey.cc/dunstan/PriestessesintheChurch.HTM
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ILdoc82
Guest
I have always felt the best argument against women Priestesses (other than theological) are the women themselves who are clammoring for ordination.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38502000/jpg/_38502089_women300.jpg
http://www.womenpriests.org/images/knudsen2.gif
http://www.womenpriests.org/images3/archdeas.gif
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38502000/jpg/_38502089_women300.jpg
http://www.womenpriests.org/images/knudsen2.gif
http://www.womenpriests.org/images3/archdeas.gif
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