Woman in Rev 12 Mary or Tribe of Israel

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i had a question regarding the woman in Revelations 12 1-2 “A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.” Then in vrs 5 it says “She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.” Okay, so the first time a read this i understood this as Mary which falls into line with the New Eve prophesy from Gen 3:15. In the foot note of my New American Bible (Catholic), it reads “The woman adorned with the sun, the moon, and the stars (images taken from Gn 37, 9-10) symbolizes God’s people in the Old and the New Testament. The Israel of old gave birth to the Messiah and then became the new Israel, the church, which suffers persecution by the dragon.”

I found this in my research of the Immaculate Conception.
Thoughts? Quotes from the CCC is greatly appreciated.
Thank you and God Bless!
 
LennyFL said:
i had a question regarding the woman in Revelations 12 1-2 “A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.” Then in vrs 5 it says “She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.” Okay, so the first time a read this i understood this as Mary which falls into line with the New Eve prophesy from Gen 3:15. In the foot note of my New American Bible (Catholic), it reads “The woman adorned with the sun, the moon, and the stars (images taken from Gn 37, 9-10) symbolizes God’s people in the Old and the New Testament. The Israel of old gave birth to the Messiah and then became the new Israel, the church, which suffers persecution by the dragon.”

I found this in my research of the Immaculate Conception.
Thoughts? Quotes from the CCC is greatly appreciated.
Thank you and God Bless!
Click to expand...
catholicism.about.com/od/rosaryprayers/ss/Meditations-On-The-Glorious-Mysteries-Of-The-Rosary_5.htm
The Fourth Glorious Mystery of the Rosary
 
Traditionally the Church has understood the Woman to be the Church and also alludes to Mary. Among the Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church I have never seen it apply to Israel, but only Fundamentalists seem to be the ones to adopt that.
 
It is Mary.

The mother of the king was always the queen in the Old Testament. Jesus is the King of kings and his mother Mary is the Queen of Heaven and Earth. The woman in Revelation 12 is wearing a crown. Only kings and queens wear crowns. It’s Mary.

There were no chapter and verse divisions when Revelation was written. Chapter 11 ends with St. John seeing the temple open and seeing the Ark of the Covenant in the temple and describes the Ark of the Covenant as the woman with a crown. Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant.

The woman is the Blessed Virgin, the Mother of God who rules with an iron rod.

-Tim-
 
How can it apply to both the Church and Mary at the same time? Mary is not the Church?
 
CCC 967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)508 of the Church.

Lumen Gentium

53…Wherefore she is hailed as a pre-eminent and singular member of the Church, and as its type and excellent exemplar in faith and charity. The Catholic Church, taught by the Holy Spirit, honors her with filial affection and piety as a most beloved mother.

63 63. By reason of the gift and role of divine maternity, by which she is united with her Son, the Redeemer, and with His singular graces and functions, the Blessed Virgin is also intimately united with the Church. As St. Ambrose taught, the Mother of God is a type of the Church in the order of faith, charity and perfect union with Christ.(18*) For in the mystery of the Church, which is itself rightly called mother and virgin, the Blessed Virgin stands out in eminent and singular fashion as exemplar both of virgin and mother. (19*)
 
LennyFL said:
How can it apply to both the Church and Mary at the same time? Mary is not the Church?
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Its a matter of applying the different senses of Scripture. The Church is usually considered as the primary interpretation, whereas Mary is considered by most Scholastics as the paassage alluding to her. That is how the original Douay Rheims Bible footnotes describes.
 
LennyFL said:
i had a question regarding the woman in Revelations 12 1-2 “A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.” Then in vrs 5 it says “She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.” Okay, so the first time a read this i understood this as Mary which falls into line with the New Eve prophesy from Gen 3:15. In the foot note of my New American Bible (Catholic), it reads “The woman adorned with the sun, the moon, and the stars (images taken from Gn 37, 9-10) symbolizes God’s people in the Old and the New Testament. The Israel of old gave birth to the Messiah and then became the new Israel, the church, which suffers persecution by the dragon.”

I found this in my research of the Immaculate Conception.
Thoughts? Quotes from the CCC is greatly appreciated.
Thank you and God Bless!
Click to expand...
The Crown of twelve stars represent the twelve apostles.Moon under her feet… Our Lady of Guadalupe en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe
 
If its coming from the anti-Mary Christians who say that she is nobody - if funny that they recognize Jesus and the devil as real in the revelation but then make the woman a symbolic representation of the Church - why would John have 2 real and one symbolic - it would make no sense - he meant all three to be real - Jesus , Mary , and the devil.- its the only way they can see it because they refuse to give Mary the honour she deserves.
 
hu324b said:
If its coming from the anti-Mary Christians who say that she is nobody - if funny that they recognize Jesus and the devil as real in the revelation but then make the woman a symbolic representation of the Church - why would John have 2 real and one symbolic - it would make no sense - he meant all three to be real - Jesus , Mary , and the devil.- its the only way they can see it because they refuse to give Mary the honour she deserves.
Click to expand...
👍👍👍
 
TimothyH said:
It is Mary.

The mother of the king was always the queen in the Old Testament. Jesus is the King of kings and his mother Mary is the Queen of Heaven and Earth. The woman in Revelation 12 is wearing a crown. Only kings and queens wear crowns. It’s Mary.
There were no chapter and verse divisions when Revelation was written. Chapter 11 ends with St. John seeing the temple open and seeing the Ark of the Covenant in the temple and describes the Ark of the Covenant as the woman with a crown. Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant.

The woman is the Blessed Virgin, the Mother of God who rules with an iron rod.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Nope, there are numerous bible verses that talk about 5 different types of crowns that will be given as our reward in heaven.

This Crown is for those Believer’s who were ready & waiting for the Return of Jesus - all those who have Loved His Appearing

2 Timorthy 4:8 “Finally, there is laid up for me the CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.”

This is the Victor’s Crown - for those who Disciplined their Bodies, and brought their Bodies unto Subjection— and had Self-Control.

1 Corinthians 9: 25-27 “Everyone who Competes for the Prize is temperate (DISCIPLINED) in ALL THINGS. Now they do it to obtain a Perishable CROWN, but we for an IMPERISHABLE (INCORRUPTIBLE) CROWN. Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I DISCIPLINE MY BODY AND BRING IT UNTO SUBJECTION, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.”

This is the Martyr’s Crown - for those who were Faithful unto Death— those who Patiently endured Testings, Temptations, and Trials.

“Rev 2:10 Don’t be afraid of what you are about to suffer. The devil will throw some of you into prison to Test you. You will Suffer for ten days. But if you remain Faithful even when facing death, I will give you the CROWN OF LIFE.”

The Elder’s Crown - This Crown is for those Leaders, Pastors, Elders, Teachers who were Godly Examples to the Flock of Believers that were entrusted and assigned to their care. -

1 Peter 5:2-4 "Care for the FLOCK God has entrusted to you. Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly—not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God. DON’T LORD IT OVER THE PEOPLE ASSIGNED TO YOUR CARE, but LEAD them by your OWN GOOD EXAMPLE. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the CROWN OF GLORY that does not fade away.

This is the Soul Winner’s Crown - For Believer’s who were Obeying Jesus’ Great Commission.
1 Thess 2:19 “For what is our hope, or joy, or CROWN OF REJOICING? Is it not even YOU in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His Coming?”
 
I’m still lost. When it is the Church but then it is alluding to Mary also? So it’s like using Mary is queen of heaven to symbolize the Church? Kinda like how a dove symbolizes peace, Mary symbolizes the Church? Wait I think I understand now. The bible is using our Blessed Mother to symbolize the Church.
 
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