Woman on the altar

[Woman1987]

In the area I am based is no tridentine mass so I go to a NO mass.
It is used in this parish that after the priest finished his sermon, some men and women come to the altar to read some short prayers. They often ask me to do this however I refused becausr I was not sure if this is Ok for a woman. What are your thoughts about this?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

In the area I am based is no tridentine mass so I go to a NO mass.
It is used in this parish that after the priest finished his sermon, some men and women come to the altar to read some short prayers. They often ask me to do this however I refused becausr I was not sure if this is Ok for a woman. What are your thoughts about this?

You should go to EVERY mass. There is no Tridentine Mass. There are Masses. Jesus Christ is what matters. It does not matter whether the Mass is blue, yellow, green or red. We go to the Mass for Jesus Christ not because it is Tridentine. To give up Jesus Christ because it is not Tridentine is not correct.

Of course you SHOULD go to the altar, unless you do not want to because you feel that you cannot read well…

 

[paperwight66]

You should go to EVERY mass. There is no Tridentine Mass. There are Masses. Jesus Christ is what matters. It does not matter whether the Mass is blue, yellow, green or red. We go to the Mass for Jesus Christ not because it is Tridentine. To give up Jesus Christ because it is not Tridentine is not correct.

Of course you SHOULD go to the altar, unless you do not want to because you feel that you cannot read well…

Pfaffenhoffen, you have bady misundertood. The OP didn’t say anything about not going to Mass if it were not a Tridentine, but just explained that she had to go to an OF (the correct term for the Mass you mean, ‘Woman’, meaning Ordinary Form) and so that involved Bidding Prayers.

‘Woman’, there is nothing wrong with women going up near the altar to say/read Bidding Prayers, but don’t feel pressured if you don’t want to do this. Perhaps the people inviting you to do so thought it was being welcoming to you.

 

[NewsTheMan]

My thoughts (only because you asked): I don’t like the bidding prayers in the first place since they are usually shallow, materialistic, vague and this-worldly. Aside from that, if they must be done, then they should be read by a male.

 

[paperwight66]

My thoughts (only because you asked): I don’t like the bidding prayers in the first place since they are usually shallow, materialistic, vague and this-worldly. Aside from that, if they must be done, then they should be read by a male.

Why?

 

[NewsTheMan]

Why?

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:12[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 14:34[/BIBLEDRB]

I don’t really want to get into this all that much though, since this topic has been beaten to death and things just go back and forth. My final opinion is to just eliminate the bidding prayers altogether (at least in the form that they are in at the moment with laity reading them)

God bless.

 

[Steady_Eddy]

Some women are very frivolous on the altar and elsewhere within the Church too. This is not a male versus female thing, it’s just that I don’t like all the distractions within the Church in recent times, it was so much better when only the priest was there. As things stand, I think there should be some kind of dress code for all (male and female) servers upon the altar, and silence should be maintained at all times. I have witnessed some appalling behaviour recently though not always from women.

2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry

 

[centurionguard]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:12[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 14:34[/BIBLEDRB]

I don’t really want to get into this all that much though, since this topic has been beaten to death and things just go back and forth. My final opinion is to just eliminate the bidding prayers altogether (at least in the form that they are in at the moment with laity reading them)

God bless.

I don’t really want to get into this all that much though, since this topic has been beaten to death and things just go back and forth. My final opinion is to just eliminate the bidding prayers altogether (at least in the form that they are in at the moment with laity reading them)

Exactly!

Which is why threads like this continue (“not”) to be fruitful.

 

[agnes_therese]

In the area I am based is no tridentine mass so I go to a NO mass.
It is used in this parish that after the priest finished his sermon, some men and women come to the altar to read some short prayers. They often ask me to do this however I refused becausr I was not sure if this is Ok for a woman. What are your thoughts about this?

The Church allows this, so you would be doing nothing wrong if you agreed to read the bidding prayers. However, it’s certainly not required; don’t feel that you have to.

 

[Monica4316]

I personally would not feel comfortable doing this.

Are we obligated to agree with such things, or are they indults like CITH, that are optional and didn’t come from VII (but afterwards)?

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Originally Posted by NewsTheMan

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

1 Corinthians 14:34 (Douay Rheims)

34 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.

:nun1:
Ah, but women are now welcome to speak in the churches and have been, for quite some time. Christ Himself said in Matthew 18:18, that *“Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatsoever is loosed on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.” * The Church allows women to speak through prayers, readings, and to teach. This does not mean they are priests nor that they are taking over. But we of this century (and the last) are allowed in many circumstances to speak, as the Vatican now allows it.

It may well be that they wisely perceived another gem of scripture “In Christ there is no male nor female,” and that Heaven itself shall be joyfully filled with the sound of women’s voices, as well as men’s, and most especially the singularly lovely voice of Our Lady, The Blessed Virgin Mary, welcoming all of God’s children in equally to rejoice in Her Son. :angel1:

 

[Leon_Bloy]

Can these be omitted at daily mass? I am inclined to think so… in any case, I have been to many masses (otherwise very reverent and licit) where they were in fact omitted.

I have to admit I find them one of the less attractive features of the OF…

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I know the Church is allowing it now but IMHO there are so many other things women can do in the Church than be up at the altar or near it. I believe it is a place for the priest, deacons and altar boys.

I am hoping this allowance changes soon. I would like to see the bidding prayers become prayers the priest leads us to pray, not the laity.

 

[GraceDK]

Dont worry about the gentlemen here who like to act all sola scriptura when , and only when, it fits them.

We don’t believe in Paul only

If God has given you a good voice, do read… it has absloutely nothing to do with gender, who reads prayers in the church.

 

[zertech]

Jeez guys smh…

Part of the awesomeness that is being catholic is that we have Catholic church and the pope to guide our understanding of Jesus’ teachings. As such when we are faced with lines of scripture that are so challenging to understand(such as the ones above) we can rely on Catechism, Church Tradition and the pope to guide our understandings of those passages.

The church teaches that only men can become priests and say mass, however there is no Catholic teaching that states or implies that women cannot go on the alter. Women are an extremely important part of the chruch just as are men.

Stuff like this is what causes people to get such twisted mis understandings of what the Catholic church is and what we teach.

 

[zertech]

I know the Church is allowing it now but IMHO there are so many other things women can do in the Church than be up at the altar or near it. I believe it is a place for the priest, deacons and altar boys.

I am hoping this allowance changes soon. I would like to see the bidding prayers become prayers the priest leads us to pray, not the laity.

You have got to be kidding me!

The alter is not a place for priests deacons and alter boys, it is a place for Jesus! We all go to mass to worship Jesus. The priest is not somehow so special that he is more worthy to stand on the alter than a woman! The miracle that occurs in mass does not occur because the priest wills it to be so, it occurs because Jesus wills it to be so!

We are Catholics, we venerate Mary as the best human that ever lived outside Jesus himself. She was there at the foot of the cross as Jesus died, she fed and cleaned him as he grew up. How do you guys come to the conclusion that somehow women are less worthy to be on that alter with Jesus, When Jesus himself has told us to venerate his mother so highly?

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

In the area I am based is no tridentine mass so I go to a NO mass.
It is used in this parish that after the priest finished his sermon, some men and women come to the altar to read some short prayers. They often ask me to do this however I refused becausr I was not sure if this is Ok for a woman. What are your thoughts about this?

Personally I never saw the need for anyone other than the priest to do these things. If we truly believe the priest is the representative of the entire parish then why do lay men and women feel they need to be up in front of the parish in order to understand they participate in Mass? IMHO there seems to be this myth that participation can only be achieved if the faithful are allowed to do portions of the priest’s job, or that in order for us to be said to have participated we need to have something to say or sing. Funny how we can understand the benefit of silent prayer when it comes to participating in perpetual adoration but when it comes to Mass (which one of the principle parts is adoration) we instantly forget the benefit of praying in silence.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

You have got to be kidding me!

The alter is not a place for priests deacons and alter boys, it is a place for Jesus! We all go to mass to worship Jesus. The priest is not somehow so special that he is more worthy to stand on the alter than a woman! The miracle that occurs in mass does not occur because the priest wills it to be so, it occurs because Jesus wills it to be so!

I’m sorry have the women recieved valid Holy Orders? Have the womens hands been consecrated for the very purpose of offering sacrifice? If the Priest acts in Persona Christi then who could possible be equal to him and his role in the Mass?

 

[zertech]

I’m sorry have the women recieved valid Holy Orders? Have the womens hands been consecrated for the very purpose of offering sacrifice? If the Priest acts in Persona Christi then who could possible be equal to him and his role in the Mass?

You contradicting the earlier point! Alter boys have not had holy orders. but this is besides the point. And also everything that is special about a priest is the grace that flows through him from God!
Even a bad man who is ordained a priest and does bad things, when he concecrates the bread and wine, they become the Eucharist. What is important is Jesus. He loves all of us equally so there is no need for the separation you are imposing.
If women can receive the Eucharist, the body and blood of Jesus himself, than why would it be disgraceful for them to be on the alter?
A church is a building, an alter is a raised floor. What is significant is how these material things allow us to give glory to God. Women on the alter do not detract from that in any way shape or form.

ill just quote what i said earlier
"Part of the awesomeness that is being catholic is that we have Catholic church and the pope to guide our understanding of Jesus’ teachings. As such when we are faced with lines of scripture that are so challenging to understand(such as the ones above) we can rely on Catechism, Church Tradition and the pope to guide our understandings of those passages.

The church teaches that only men can become priests and say mass, however there is no Catholic teaching that states or implies that women cannot go on the alter. Women are an extremely important part of the chruch just as are men.

Stuff like this is what causes people to get such twisted mis understandings of what the Catholic church is and what we teach.
"

Honestly though i didn’t even know this was a thing. I didn’t know that there were Catholics in today’s world who would think something so frighteningly un catholic as it being wrong for women to be on the alter.
Like this really seriously worries me in ways i cant even describe.

 

[PhilOSophia]

It starts from this:

Is the Mass a sacred rite or is it just a nice commemorative meal with readings?

I put it to you that the latter is now the norm the majority of Roman Catholic churches. As for those who say their local N.O. is very reverent: I suspect we’d disagree as to what counts as reverent.

It doesn’t matter what’s in the rubrics;
It doesn’t matter what it started out to be;
What matters is the symbolism.

Women in the the holy place;
Women reading from the pulpit;
Women distributing Communion;
All in street clothes.
People being doled out the sacred matter in a queue;
The rite read out as a speech directed to the attendees;

Etc. etc.

The common thread?
The mundane injected into the sacred, thus nullifying that idea.

I think a great many people on this forum are wasting the energy of their lives trying to defend these things. Another 40 years of apologia won’t change a thing. You won’t even bat an eyelid when the latest novelty manifests: it will all seem perfectly normal.

The Mass used to be a lesson in itself; solemnity, latin, incense, chant, icons, exclusivity …
**
Now you get people prating “We need more cathecesis!” when the latest dumb thing rears its unlovely head.**

However: a glimmer of hope. Pope Benedict is making some very interesting moves if you look at everything he’s doing as whole.