G
- Status
O
onmyknees
Guest
You have got to be kidding me!
The altar is the place for priests! Priests are in Persona Christi when saying the mass! They are the only ones who can give us Jesus in the Eucharist! How can you say that priests are not special?
J
JReducation
Guest
P
Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
I do not regret.Awww, hey you tried, right? What else can you do?
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Once, I read this and I agree (I am on Education Sector): “You teach as much for what you teach than for what you do not teach!”
You teach= they learn
You do not teach or they failed= they have a large field to learn by themselves.
We, parents and teachers, must not think that we must teach everything. We must give them wings to fly and discover on their own. Failures and traumas sometimes teach more than exists.
Told me a depressed girls who attempted suicide 5 times: “Those who do not suffer do not know!” It was 20 years ago and I never forgot what was learnt by experience.
J
JReducation
Guest
I have always said that parents and teachers should never try to own the achievements of the young, unless they also want to own their failures.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
P
Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
STOP.I have always said that parents and teachers should never try to own the achievements of the young, unless they also want to own their failures.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Their achievement is theirs. I own their failures.
Are you OP, real franciscan? Real or 3r Order?
M
Melchior_1
Guest
(Third Order Franciscans are real Franciscans, “Third Order” only denotes that the Secular Franciscans were the third group created)
J
JReducation
Guest
OP are Dominicans. All OP’s are Dominicans: Friars, nuns, sisters, and seculars.
Franciscans come in many packages, but we are all real Franciscans. The Secular Franciscans are OFS. I’m not OFS, I’m OSF.
The question which you may be trying to ask is, “Are you a secular or a regular Franciscan?” The answer is, that I’m a regular Franciscan. Regular are all Franciscans who are consecrated religious. Secular are all Franciscans who are not religious, but have publicly professed to live by the Franciscan rule.
What does that have to do with the statement about kids? Why would a parent own the failures of his child?
You can guide a child, but at the end of the day, you can’t force anyone to act contrary to their will. The most a parent can do is delay. While the child is under his or her authority, he may comply with the rules. Once he’s an independent adult, he will comply or break those rules. Both choices are his to own. They are not the parent’s. If he succeeds, the success is his. If he fails, the failure is also his.
The parent’s duty is to guide. If the parent fails to guide, that’s what he has to own. Do you see the difference?
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
P
paperwight66
Guest
Bro JR, I think it’s just a language - or rather, a punctuation - confusion. Remember that English isn’t Pfaffenhoffen’s first language.
I think he meant his sentence to read, 'OP, are you a real Franciscan?
In other words, by OP he meant Original Poster, not Dominican.’
I think he meant his sentence to read, 'OP, are you a real Franciscan?
In other words, by OP he meant Original Poster, not Dominican.’
J
JReducation
Guest
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, lol.
If the original poster is professed, he’s the real thing. It’s very offensive to St. Francis and to the Franciscan family to consider the Secular Franciscans as less Franciscan than the rest of us. Canonically, they are as Franciscan as we are and their profession is equivalent to our own.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
K
Kathryn_Ann
Guest
Hello again,
I’m certainly not against women in any way, my own mother is one
(Kathryn’s reply)
Greetings in Christ to you as well. I enjoy reading your replies.
I applaud the fact that you are not against women, my dear brother, as none of us would be here without them.
As to your point on “quieter times,” I’m confused here: Since we’re speaking of women at the altar, are you saying women are noisier? Or that just too many laypersons are helping?
The pope I think is doing the best he can, but like his predecessors he is dealing with a lot of obstinacy within the Church. I think a lot of the changes that have crept in recently i.e. removal of the altar rails, Eucharistic ministers, Communion in the hand etc were brought in by erring bishops and priests without ever consulting the Vatican or the pope. Some people I’m sure would overthrow and overrule the pope if they could and this is easily detected in their speech and behaviour.
(Kathryn’s reply) Catholics overthrowing and overruling our Pope? Erring bishops and priests? It seems to me that this view is the one beyond obstinate! No infighting allowed! :slapfight:
We must ask ourselves the question does any of the above improve the Mass in any way. And the answer of course is a definite no because you simply can’t improve something that was perfect already. There’s nothing lovelier in this whole wide world than a nice quiet Mass with no unnecessary noise and no unnecessary distractions, it’s the nearest thing to heaven on earth. But unfortunately a lot of people are not in tune with what’s actually happening upon the altar or they don’t seem to care. They come to meet other people not God, and so they distract everyone else. I was asked myself some years ago would I like to be a minister or a reader and I refused. And it’s not in fact making people any holier or any more involved in the Mass, it is in fact having the opposite effect. I know some will disagree but that’s my personal opinion.
(Kathryn’s reply) And so two ladies stepped in to take your place, as a reader and as a Eucharistic Minister, two opportunities which you declined! :nun1:
We do agree on a few things, yet our approach and feelings differ. If someone is distracting from the Mass (be it a male or female helping as EM, reader, etc.) it should be brought to the attention of the parish Priest. One’s gender should not matter here, only the level of assistance.
If you are simply opposed to great numbers of people helping as EM’s where this seems unnecessary to you, consider speaking up about it. I would imagine that what drove the use of additional EM’s, for example, might be parishioners complaining about longer lines.
Where we agree lies in a love of order, :angel1:and an appreciation for lovely old traditions, etc. I myself find it curious, for instance, as to why so many people (of both genders) find it unnecessary to dress any differently at Mass than they would when cleaning out their garages or going bowling, when, from their appearance at office parties and other social occasions, they prove that their wardrobes for these other occasions are appropriately elegant and/or at least respectful to the person being celebrated at the time. Why, then, we may ask, the lack of equal respect in our attire or attitude as we celebrate Christ at Mass? Alas, a general trend towards equating casualness in attitude and dress with some kind of democratic openness or honesty has been mistakenly embraced by many. In the world we live in , simple elegance and humility often seem to have mistakenly excused laziness in dress and attitude.
:angel1:But we must allow here of course for the homeless, the poor, those wandering in seeking Christ. We cannot judge too harshly, but can only lead by example. I too find the old ways beautiful, and believe that some mention of respectful attire and attitudes while at Mass are to be discussed with the priest if respect is lacking in any way.
Some have left one parish to join another for such reasons, and I do understand the movement of many toward more traditional Masses. My distinction here is that is has nothing to do with gender, and all to do with respectful behavior, or the lack thereof, being brought to the attention of the Priest rather than remaining silent regarding one’s objections.
My dear brother in Christ, may your day be blessed and full of joy.:heaven::harp:
2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry
S
Steady_Eddy
Guest
to your point on “quieter times,” I’m confused here: Since we’re speaking of women at the altar, are you saying women are noisier? Or that just too many laypersons are helping?
Both, I have to add however, women are great decorating the altar, flowers etc, but once Mass begins the priest is sufficient.
(Kathryn’s reply) And so two ladies stepped in to take your place, as a reader and as a Eucharistic Minister, two opportunities which you declined!
“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”
By the above I don’t mean fools in the derogatory sense, it’s not meant as an insult to anyone.
“But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.” But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
If I thought it was necessary, beneficial for the Church, others, and me personally to be on the altar I would most certainly be there. But like Mary I have chosen the better part, I know my place i.e. kneeling quietly before the altar. Unless I became a priest I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.
We do agree on a few things, yet our approach and feelings differ. If someone is distracting from the Mass (be it a male or female helping as EM, reader, etc.) it should be brought to the attention of the parish Priest. One’s gender should not matter here, only the level of assistance.
Gender doesn’t matter to me; it does however matter a great deal to most priests. They are human beings, they want to be liked, and often they will appease women especially. I am a fairly quiet kind of person myself, nevertheless, I have complained about one particularly bad incident involving a minister of the Eucharist, and I actually wrote a letter to the bishop which he chose to ignore. More recently I wrote a letter to the parish priest because he himself was promoting Communion in the hand, and doing so from the altar of all places. We argued the point for a while until I sent him a video (link below in brackets) which settled the issue completely. Prior to that I had to deal with a lot of childish behaviour because I wouldn’t receive from a minister, and I wouldn’t receive Communion in the hand.
{Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum}
If you are simply opposed to great numbers of people helping as EM’s where this seems unnecessary to you, consider speaking up about it. I would imagine that what drove the use of additional EM’s, for example, might be parishioners complaining about longer lines.
When we all knelt at the altar rails, and received Communion on the tongue everything flowed much more smoothly. A lot of people don’t even approach the altar any more; they are met midway up the Church, or even at the backdoor, very irreverent. Is it worth all that because some people want to get out a little earlier?
Where we agree lies in a love of order, and an appreciation for lovely old traditions, etc. I myself find it curious, for instance, as to why so many people (of both genders) find it unnecessary to dress any differently at Mass than they would when cleaning out their garages or going bowling, when, from their appearance at office parties and other social occasions, they prove that their wardrobes for these other occasions are appropriately elegant and/or at least respectful to the person being celebrated at the time. Why, then, we may ask, the lack of equal respect in our attire or attitude as we celebrate Christ at Mass? Alas, a general trend towards equating casualness in attitude and dress with some kind of democratic openness or honesty has been mistakenly embraced by many. In the world we live in, simple elegance and humility often seem to have mistakenly excused laziness in dress and attitude.
When I mentioned some kind of dress code I really meant for those upon the altar. I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk.
But we must allow here of course for the homeless, the poor, those wandering in seeking Christ. We cannot judge too harshly, but can only lead by example. I too find the old ways beautiful, and believe that some mention of respectful attire and attitudes while at Mass are to be discussed with the priest if respect is lacking in any way.
Regarding dress for the rest of us attending Mass. I would be the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes. The really bad incident mentioned above concerned the ill treatment of a poor beggar whom I liked very much. I dress rather cheaply though cleanly myself. I believe in simplifying everything, it frees your mind for other things. For many years I wore only dungarees, and when I couldn’t get the denim variety I wore the work ware variety all the time. This together with a shirt, runners, or boots, and I was ready and raring to go, to daily Mass that is.
2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry
Both, I have to add however, women are great decorating the altar, flowers etc, but once Mass begins the priest is sufficient.
(Kathryn’s reply) And so two ladies stepped in to take your place, as a reader and as a Eucharistic Minister, two opportunities which you declined!
“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”
By the above I don’t mean fools in the derogatory sense, it’s not meant as an insult to anyone.
“But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.” But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
If I thought it was necessary, beneficial for the Church, others, and me personally to be on the altar I would most certainly be there. But like Mary I have chosen the better part, I know my place i.e. kneeling quietly before the altar. Unless I became a priest I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.
We do agree on a few things, yet our approach and feelings differ. If someone is distracting from the Mass (be it a male or female helping as EM, reader, etc.) it should be brought to the attention of the parish Priest. One’s gender should not matter here, only the level of assistance.
Gender doesn’t matter to me; it does however matter a great deal to most priests. They are human beings, they want to be liked, and often they will appease women especially. I am a fairly quiet kind of person myself, nevertheless, I have complained about one particularly bad incident involving a minister of the Eucharist, and I actually wrote a letter to the bishop which he chose to ignore. More recently I wrote a letter to the parish priest because he himself was promoting Communion in the hand, and doing so from the altar of all places. We argued the point for a while until I sent him a video (link below in brackets) which settled the issue completely. Prior to that I had to deal with a lot of childish behaviour because I wouldn’t receive from a minister, and I wouldn’t receive Communion in the hand.
{Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum}
If you are simply opposed to great numbers of people helping as EM’s where this seems unnecessary to you, consider speaking up about it. I would imagine that what drove the use of additional EM’s, for example, might be parishioners complaining about longer lines.
When we all knelt at the altar rails, and received Communion on the tongue everything flowed much more smoothly. A lot of people don’t even approach the altar any more; they are met midway up the Church, or even at the backdoor, very irreverent. Is it worth all that because some people want to get out a little earlier?
Where we agree lies in a love of order, and an appreciation for lovely old traditions, etc. I myself find it curious, for instance, as to why so many people (of both genders) find it unnecessary to dress any differently at Mass than they would when cleaning out their garages or going bowling, when, from their appearance at office parties and other social occasions, they prove that their wardrobes for these other occasions are appropriately elegant and/or at least respectful to the person being celebrated at the time. Why, then, we may ask, the lack of equal respect in our attire or attitude as we celebrate Christ at Mass? Alas, a general trend towards equating casualness in attitude and dress with some kind of democratic openness or honesty has been mistakenly embraced by many. In the world we live in, simple elegance and humility often seem to have mistakenly excused laziness in dress and attitude.
When I mentioned some kind of dress code I really meant for those upon the altar. I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk.
But we must allow here of course for the homeless, the poor, those wandering in seeking Christ. We cannot judge too harshly, but can only lead by example. I too find the old ways beautiful, and believe that some mention of respectful attire and attitudes while at Mass are to be discussed with the priest if respect is lacking in any way.
Regarding dress for the rest of us attending Mass. I would be the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes. The really bad incident mentioned above concerned the ill treatment of a poor beggar whom I liked very much. I dress rather cheaply though cleanly myself. I believe in simplifying everything, it frees your mind for other things. For many years I wore only dungarees, and when I couldn’t get the denim variety I wore the work ware variety all the time. This together with a shirt, runners, or boots, and I was ready and raring to go, to daily Mass that is.
2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry
S
Steady_Eddy
Guest
to your point on “quieter times,” I’m confused here: Since we’re speaking of women at the altar, are you saying women are noisier? Or that just too many laypersons are helping?
Both, I have to add however, women are great decorating the altar, flowers etc, but once Mass begins the priest is sufficient.
(Kathryn’s reply) And so two ladies stepped in to take your place, as a reader and as a Eucharistic Minister, two opportunities which you declined!
“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”
By the above I don’t mean fools in the derogatory sense, it’s not meant as an insult to anyone.
“But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.” But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
If I thought it was necessary, beneficial for the Church, others, and me personally to be on the altar I would most certainly be there. But like Mary I have chosen the better part, I know my place i.e. kneeling quietly before the altar. Unless I became a priest I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.
We do agree on a few things, yet our approach and feelings differ. If someone is distracting from the Mass (be it a male or female helping as EM, reader, etc.) it should be brought to the attention of the parish Priest. One’s gender should not matter here, only the level of assistance.
Gender doesn’t matter to me; it does however matter a great deal to most priests. They are human beings, they want to be liked, and often they will appease women especially. I am a fairly quiet kind of person myself, nevertheless, I have complained about one particularly bad incident involving a minister of the Eucharist, and I actually wrote a letter to the bishop which he chose to ignore. More recently I wrote a letter to the parish priest because he himself was promoting Communion in the hand, and doing so from the altar of all places. We argued the point for a while until I sent him a video (link below in red) which settled the issue completely. Prior to that I had to deal with a lot of childish behaviour because I wouldn’t receive from a minister, and I wouldn’t receive Communion in the hand.
Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum
If you are simply opposed to great numbers of people helping as EM’s where this seems unnecessary to you, consider speaking up about it. I would imagine that what drove the use of additional EM’s, for example, might be parishioners complaining about longer lines.
When we all knelt at the altar rails, and received Communion on the tongue everything flowed much more smoothly. A lot of people don’t even approach the altar any more; they are met midway up the Church, or even at the backdoor, very irreverent. Is it worth all that because some want to get out a little earlier?
Where we agree lies in a love of order, and an appreciation for lovely old traditions, etc. I myself find it curious, for instance, as to why so many people (of both genders) find it unnecessary to dress any differently at Mass than they would when cleaning out their garages or going bowling, when, from their appearance at office parties and other social occasions, they prove that their wardrobes for these other occasions are appropriately elegant and/or at least respectful to the person being celebrated at the time. Why, then, we may ask, the lack of equal respect in our attire or attitude as we celebrate Christ at Mass? Alas, a general trend towards equating casualness in attitude and dress with some kind of democratic openness or honesty has been mistakenly embraced by many. In the world we live in, simple elegance and humility often seem to have mistakenly excused laziness in dress and attitude.
When I mentioned some kind of dress code I really meant for those upon the altar. If we have to have them there, I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk.
But we must allow here of course for the homeless, the poor, those wandering in seeking Christ. We cannot judge too harshly, but can only lead by example. I too find the old ways beautiful, and believe that some mention of respectful attire and attitudes while at Mass are to be discussed with the priest if respect is lacking in any way.
Regarding dress for the rest of us attending Mass. I would be the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes. The really bad incident mentioned above concerned a poor beggar whom I happened to like very much. I dress rather cheaply though cleanly myself. I believe in simplifying everything, it frees your mind for other, more important things. For many years I wore only dungarees, and when I couldn’t get the denim variety I wore the work ware variety all the time. This together with a shirt, runners or boots, and I was ready and raring to go, to daily Mass that is.
2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry
Both, I have to add however, women are great decorating the altar, flowers etc, but once Mass begins the priest is sufficient.
(Kathryn’s reply) And so two ladies stepped in to take your place, as a reader and as a Eucharistic Minister, two opportunities which you declined!
“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”
By the above I don’t mean fools in the derogatory sense, it’s not meant as an insult to anyone.
“But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.” But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
If I thought it was necessary, beneficial for the Church, others, and me personally to be on the altar I would most certainly be there. But like Mary I have chosen the better part, I know my place i.e. kneeling quietly before the altar. Unless I became a priest I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.
We do agree on a few things, yet our approach and feelings differ. If someone is distracting from the Mass (be it a male or female helping as EM, reader, etc.) it should be brought to the attention of the parish Priest. One’s gender should not matter here, only the level of assistance.
Gender doesn’t matter to me; it does however matter a great deal to most priests. They are human beings, they want to be liked, and often they will appease women especially. I am a fairly quiet kind of person myself, nevertheless, I have complained about one particularly bad incident involving a minister of the Eucharist, and I actually wrote a letter to the bishop which he chose to ignore. More recently I wrote a letter to the parish priest because he himself was promoting Communion in the hand, and doing so from the altar of all places. We argued the point for a while until I sent him a video (link below in red) which settled the issue completely. Prior to that I had to deal with a lot of childish behaviour because I wouldn’t receive from a minister, and I wouldn’t receive Communion in the hand.
Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum
If you are simply opposed to great numbers of people helping as EM’s where this seems unnecessary to you, consider speaking up about it. I would imagine that what drove the use of additional EM’s, for example, might be parishioners complaining about longer lines.
When we all knelt at the altar rails, and received Communion on the tongue everything flowed much more smoothly. A lot of people don’t even approach the altar any more; they are met midway up the Church, or even at the backdoor, very irreverent. Is it worth all that because some want to get out a little earlier?
Where we agree lies in a love of order, and an appreciation for lovely old traditions, etc. I myself find it curious, for instance, as to why so many people (of both genders) find it unnecessary to dress any differently at Mass than they would when cleaning out their garages or going bowling, when, from their appearance at office parties and other social occasions, they prove that their wardrobes for these other occasions are appropriately elegant and/or at least respectful to the person being celebrated at the time. Why, then, we may ask, the lack of equal respect in our attire or attitude as we celebrate Christ at Mass? Alas, a general trend towards equating casualness in attitude and dress with some kind of democratic openness or honesty has been mistakenly embraced by many. In the world we live in, simple elegance and humility often seem to have mistakenly excused laziness in dress and attitude.
When I mentioned some kind of dress code I really meant for those upon the altar. If we have to have them there, I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk.
But we must allow here of course for the homeless, the poor, those wandering in seeking Christ. We cannot judge too harshly, but can only lead by example. I too find the old ways beautiful, and believe that some mention of respectful attire and attitudes while at Mass are to be discussed with the priest if respect is lacking in any way.
Regarding dress for the rest of us attending Mass. I would be the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes. The really bad incident mentioned above concerned a poor beggar whom I happened to like very much. I dress rather cheaply though cleanly myself. I believe in simplifying everything, it frees your mind for other, more important things. For many years I wore only dungarees, and when I couldn’t get the denim variety I wore the work ware variety all the time. This together with a shirt, runners or boots, and I was ready and raring to go, to daily Mass that is.
2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry
D
Diana_Catherine
Guest
I like your answers. Very thoughtful.to your point on “quieter times,” I’m confused here: Since we’re speaking of women at the altar, are you saying women are noisier? Or that just too many laypersons are helping?
Both, I have to add however, women are great decorating the altar, flowers etc, but once Mass begins the priest is sufficient.
(Kathryn’s reply) And so two ladies stepped in to take your place, as a reader and as a Eucharistic Minister, two opportunities which you declined!
“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”
By the above I don’t mean fools in the derogatory sense, it’s not meant as an insult to anyone.
“But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.” But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
If I thought it was necessary, beneficial for the Church, others, and me personally to be on the altar I would most certainly be there. But like Mary I have chosen the better part, I know my place i.e. kneeling quietly before the altar. Unless I became a priest I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.
We do agree on a few things, yet our approach and feelings differ. If someone is distracting from the Mass (be it a male or female helping as EM, reader, etc.) it should be brought to the attention of the parish Priest. One’s gender should not matter here, only the level of assistance.
Gender doesn’t matter to me; it does however matter a great deal to most priests. They are human beings, they want to be liked, and often they will appease women especially. I am a fairly quiet kind of person myself, nevertheless, I have complained about one particularly bad incident involving a minister of the Eucharist, and I actually wrote a letter to the bishop which he chose to ignore. More recently I wrote a letter to the parish priest because he himself was promoting Communion in the hand, and doing so from the altar of all places. We argued the point for a while until I sent him a video (link below in red) which settled the issue completely. Prior to that I had to deal with a lot of childish behaviour because I wouldn’t receive from a minister, and I wouldn’t receive Communion in the hand.
Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum
If you are simply opposed to great numbers of people helping as EM’s where this seems unnecessary to you, consider speaking up about it. I would imagine that what drove the use of additional EM’s, for example, might be parishioners complaining about longer lines.
When we all knelt at the altar rails, and received Communion on the tongue everything flowed much more smoothly. A lot of people don’t even approach the altar any more; they are met midway up the Church, or even at the backdoor, very irreverent. Is it worth all that because some want to get out a little earlier?
Where we agree lies in a love of order, and an appreciation for lovely old traditions, etc. I myself find it curious, for instance, as to why so many people (of both genders) find it unnecessary to dress any differently at Mass than they would when cleaning out their garages or going bowling, when, from their appearance at office parties and other social occasions, they prove that their wardrobes for these other occasions are appropriately elegant and/or at least respectful to the person being celebrated at the time. Why, then, we may ask, the lack of equal respect in our attire or attitude as we celebrate Christ at Mass? Alas, a general trend towards equating casualness in attitude and dress with some kind of democratic openness or honesty has been mistakenly embraced by many. In the world we live in, simple elegance and humility often seem to have mistakenly excused laziness in dress and attitude.
When I mentioned some kind of dress code I really meant for those upon the altar. If we have to have them there, I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk.
But we must allow here of course for the homeless, the poor, those wandering in seeking Christ. We cannot judge too harshly, but can only lead by example. I too find the old ways beautiful, and believe that some mention of respectful attire and attitudes while at Mass are to be discussed with the priest if respect is lacking in any way.
Regarding dress for the rest of us attending Mass. I would be the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes. The really bad incident mentioned above concerned a poor beggar whom I happened to like very much. I dress rather cheaply though cleanly myself. I believe in simplifying everything, it frees your mind for other, more important things. For many years I wore only dungarees, and when I couldn’t get the denim variety I wore the work ware variety all the time. This together with a shirt, runners or boots, and I was ready and raring to go, to daily Mass that is.
2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry
K
Kathryn_Ann
Guest
Originally Posted by Steady Eddy
I have to add however, women are great decorating the altar, flowers etc, but once Mass begins the priest is sufficient.
KAT’S REPLY: Really? The priest needs no assistance? Strange then that they ask so many to help with readings, as lectors, as EM’s, etc. What difference does it make if they are male or female assistants?
“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”
KAT’S REPLY: You’re calling people who answer the request to serve at the altar* fools? *That’s quite unkind.
By the above I don’t mean fools in the derogatory sense, it’s not meant as an insult to anyone.
KAT’S REPLY: What other way does one take the word fool? There is no other way to take the word, or you would not have felt the need to try to explain it.
“But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.” But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
KAT’S REPLY: This has nothing to do with the Mass. There are many ways to attend Mass, whether serving at the altar or not. You said that you declined helping at Mass, yet you complain when women answer the call to help.
Our Lord Jesus Christ, in handing the keys to St. Peter said that whatsoever he and his followers bound on earth was bound in Heaven, and whatsoever they loosed on earth would be loosed in Heaven. So, the Holy Father himself and the Vatican have spoken on this issue of woman helping during Mass and at the altar. Yet you oppose them?
Gender doesn’t matter to me; it does however matter a great deal to most priests.
KAT’S REPLY: So you believe you are speaking for “most priests?” Why? Obviously they continue to allow women to serve at the altar during Mass. Communion in the hand IS allowed. The priest blesses the bread and wine, which then become the Precious Body and Blood of Christ, no matter whether the priest Himself or the EM presents this to you during Mass.
Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum,
KAT’S REPLY: Both ways of receiving are allowed. The discussion here is about women serving at the altar, which is allowed.
When I mentioned some kind of dress code I really meant for those upon the altar. If we have to have them there, I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk.
KAT’S REPLY: *Them? If you mean the ladies,are you stating that you believe the ladies would stop serving at the altar if their new clothes were hidden by robes? *
You wrote “Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day?” What does that mean? People, male or female, do wear new, clean clothes each day. I would hope this applies equally to men and women.
Regarding dress for the rest of us attending Mass. I would be the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes. I dress rather cheaply though cleanly myself. I believe in simplifying everything, it frees your mind for other, more important things. For many years I wore only dungarees, and when I couldn’t get the denim variety I wore the work ware variety all the time. This together with a shirt, runners or boots, and I was ready and raring to go, to daily Mass that is.
KAT’S REPLY: Let me simplify things for you then. Women are sanctioned by the Vatican to serve at the altar during Mass in a number of ways, as EM’s, readers, lectors, etc.
You stated that you are
“the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes,”
yet you stated that
at the altar " I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk."
KAT’S FINAL REPLY: Your earlier stated preference for “cheap” clothing and dungarees while attending Mass seems an odd choice for someone who prefers traditional robing for those serving at the altar. We all wear our best, certainly, and if that is dungarees, fine, but I wonder if someone would dress “casually in dungarees” for a court date or job interview if they had something better.
I hope that Our Lady, The Blessed Virgin Mother will fill your heart with a compassion for the ladies doing their best to serve at Mass.
“In Christ, there is no male or female.” We do not need to be Priests. What we ladies do need is to be respected for wanting to serve when and where we are asked to serve, and where the Holy Father along with The Church, have sanctioned us to do so. God’s blessings be upon you.
I have to add however, women are great decorating the altar, flowers etc, but once Mass begins the priest is sufficient.
KAT’S REPLY: Really? The priest needs no assistance? Strange then that they ask so many to help with readings, as lectors, as EM’s, etc. What difference does it make if they are male or female assistants?
“Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”
KAT’S REPLY: You’re calling people who answer the request to serve at the altar* fools? *That’s quite unkind.
By the above I don’t mean fools in the derogatory sense, it’s not meant as an insult to anyone.
KAT’S REPLY: What other way does one take the word fool? There is no other way to take the word, or you would not have felt the need to try to explain it.
“But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.” But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things; but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”
KAT’S REPLY: This has nothing to do with the Mass. There are many ways to attend Mass, whether serving at the altar or not. You said that you declined helping at Mass, yet you complain when women answer the call to help.
Our Lord Jesus Christ, in handing the keys to St. Peter said that whatsoever he and his followers bound on earth was bound in Heaven, and whatsoever they loosed on earth would be loosed in Heaven. So, the Holy Father himself and the Vatican have spoken on this issue of woman helping during Mass and at the altar. Yet you oppose them?
Gender doesn’t matter to me; it does however matter a great deal to most priests.
KAT’S REPLY: So you believe you are speaking for “most priests?” Why? Obviously they continue to allow women to serve at the altar during Mass. Communion in the hand IS allowed. The priest blesses the bread and wine, which then become the Precious Body and Blood of Christ, no matter whether the priest Himself or the EM presents this to you during Mass.
Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum,
KAT’S REPLY: Both ways of receiving are allowed. The discussion here is about women serving at the altar, which is allowed.
When I mentioned some kind of dress code I really meant for those upon the altar. If we have to have them there, I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk.
KAT’S REPLY: *Them? If you mean the ladies,are you stating that you believe the ladies would stop serving at the altar if their new clothes were hidden by robes? *
You wrote “Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day?” What does that mean? People, male or female, do wear new, clean clothes each day. I would hope this applies equally to men and women.
Regarding dress for the rest of us attending Mass. I would be the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes. I dress rather cheaply though cleanly myself. I believe in simplifying everything, it frees your mind for other, more important things. For many years I wore only dungarees, and when I couldn’t get the denim variety I wore the work ware variety all the time. This together with a shirt, runners or boots, and I was ready and raring to go, to daily Mass that is.
KAT’S REPLY: Let me simplify things for you then. Women are sanctioned by the Vatican to serve at the altar during Mass in a number of ways, as EM’s, readers, lectors, etc.
You stated that you are
“the last person in the world to judge people by their clothes,”
yet you stated that
at the altar " I would prefer to see everyone robed somewhat like altar boys attire. You would probably find a lot of them would leave then. Women in particular love to wear different clothes every day, but the altar is not a catwalk."
KAT’S FINAL REPLY: Your earlier stated preference for “cheap” clothing and dungarees while attending Mass seems an odd choice for someone who prefers traditional robing for those serving at the altar. We all wear our best, certainly, and if that is dungarees, fine, but I wonder if someone would dress “casually in dungarees” for a court date or job interview if they had something better.
I hope that Our Lady, The Blessed Virgin Mother will fill your heart with a compassion for the ladies doing their best to serve at Mass.
“In Christ, there is no male or female.” We do not need to be Priests. What we ladies do need is to be respected for wanting to serve when and where we are asked to serve, and where the Holy Father along with The Church, have sanctioned us to do so. God’s blessings be upon you.
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