Woman sneaks Host to her son after Communion

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Woodstock said:
Correct. Eastern Catholic or not, it doesn’t excuse deliberate disobedience. It is a problem some Eastern Catholics face. When they inform the priest in advance and give sufficient time to verify the correct procedures, some Roman Catholic priests refuse to commune Eastern Catholic children. I know of a person who couldn’t find a priest within 30 miles who would commune her baby. While disobedient and not excusable, she would hold a small amount of the Precious Blood in her mouth and put it on her finger and commune the baby herself. When the priest refuses to do his job and denies a child his canonical rights, some parents feel that they have no other choices. They should address it with the bishop, then with the Eastern bishop, then with canon lawyers, and on up until change is effected. When looking at the passing time and a child being denied, it can be difficult to endure.

Then there are the people who think they have a right to everything and don’t have to follow proper procedures but can just take whatever pleases them, and instead of the hassle of getting the child prepared will just take it. So speculation on the woman’s motives are in vain.

Incorrect. The Byzantine Typikon has the Eucharistic species, comingled, distributed on a spoon. As such, reception is on the tongue. The rubrics for the DL are not binding on the faithful, meaning they don’t have to receive that way when in a Roman Catholic Mass. They are binding on the Liturgy, meaning a priest offering a Divine Liturgy is bound to them, unless directed otherwise. Otherwise, all Roman Catholics could insist on receiving in the hand at a Divine Liturgy since their Mass rubrics allow for it. The rubrics don’t cover the people, but the service.

Yes they could, but because the Mass is done according to the Latin rubrics, not because the people there are under Latin laws when present. Eastern Catholics attending Mass remain bound to their Eastern canons, such as fasting and days of observance. The people are bound to the canons. The services are bound to the rubrics.

While polite, neither of those are binding on the people.

Any confirmed person in a state of grace who presents himself for communion has a right to receive. Byzantine Catholic children fit the criteria. Some Latin priests continue to deny them communion in spite of this.

They would go through RCIC. I think they should not be confirmed unless they’ve reached the age of reason, but they should be confirmed and then communed if they go through RCIC after the age of reason.
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There is no such thing as RCIC.
 
If the priest saw her (and you indicate that he did and seemed mad) then leave it to him.

If it were me (though I’m probably much older than you) I might (depending on how it struck me) have a word after Mass with her if I saw it…just out of curiosity. Something like, I noticed you broke your communion host in half and shared it with your son, I’ve never seen that before, where did you learn that? I didn’t know that was permissible. I’ll bring that up at my next catechist class, sometimes I miss things and maybe they can bring me up to speed (if she doesn’t) …etc…

This would let her know that:

  1. *]Someone did see it,
    *]It was a curious behavior,
    *]It is questionable, and
    *]I am going to be asking about it.

    I would not be accusatory at all, because I don’t know why she did it and am interested to know why.
 
ForMary said:
If the priest saw her (and you indicate that he did and seemed mad) then leave it to him.
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I think the problem highlighted is that the Priest saw it but it has apparently happened again since. If the Priest isn’t aware that the behaviour is still continuing then obviously he can’t be expected to do anything about it.

Your suggestion would be a good way of dealing with it in a non confrontational way, having said that I think Br Rich is probably correct in trying to stop it occurring in the first place.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Of course I don’t mean physically wrestling her to the ground. There is not enought room in the pews for that.
Oh, I might very well ask – with or without talking to the pastor first. But this is considerably different than what you first posted:

Tell the pastor what you did see and think happened. Then plan to sit either next to her or right behind her next Sunday if Father asks you to. When you see her return to her pew watch that she consumes the Host. If not and she breaks it, STOP her in a charitiable and polite manner and tell her to either give it to you or consume it herself. But first let Father know just to be sure that they are not Eastern Catholics, attending your Latin parish.

Does it really change what I said by adding the 6 words?
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Yes. You have softened your original posting by a considerable amount.
 
Spiller said:
Yes. You have softened your original posting by a considerable amount.
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Yes, I think it does as well. I still wouldn’t make a comand to give it up though 🤷 not unless I was an EM and had been asked by the priest and more important found out more information frist. I might say something along the lines of “you may not be aware of this but we aren’t suppose to take the host to our pew and give it so someone else, I"m sorry :o :)” Be nice about it. I don’t like this idea of a flat command.

Of course I’m always concerned about peoples spiritual health. Far too many are pushed out with cold stark harshness. I don’t feel that’s what Br. Rich meant but honestly wounds leave scars that can take a while to heal. I don’t like seeing people be chased away from the Church and thier faith hurt by a slight like this. I know to us it makes perfect sense to protect our Lord. I am an EM as well and I am always checking to make sure people consume. I am very careful but I’ve been taught.

It’s possible they don’t understand and are not at a place to accept the importance of the host yet. Fallen away Catholic maybe? Just trying to come back? Have forgotten?

Like I said, I am more concerned about the persons faith and making sure they stay so they learn about our wonderful Catholic faith and not make such mistakes.
 
 
Woodstock said:
A google search shows a large number of parishes with RCIC programs. Here are just a few links.

Rite of Christian Initiation of Children RCIC

Rite of Christian Initiation of Children (RCIC)

Religious Education

St. Leo the Great Catholic Church – Rcia

Rite of Christian Initiation of Children - Wikipedia

Religious Education - Stlucy

St. John The Evangelist Catholic Church | Prairieville, Louisiana

Office of Religious Education
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There is officially no such thing as RCIC - The Rite of Christian Initiation of Children in the Catholic Church. There is RCIA adapted for children. Find it on this site vatican.va/phome_en.htm
and I will admit that I am incorrect.
 
Woodstock said:
Correct. Eastern Catholic or not, it doesn’t excuse deliberate disobedience. It is a problem some Eastern Catholics face. When they inform the priest in advance and give sufficient time to verify the correct procedures,** some Roman Catholic priests refuse to commune Eastern Catholic children. I know of a person who couldn’t find a priest within 30 miles who would commune her baby.**
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I have trouble believing this. IF a letter to the bishop didn’t IMMEDIATELY fix this, here is one place the Holy See WOULD get involved – very quickly too.
 
I don’t have any problems believing this. Priests are also human beings, with human failings.

The Eastern Churches aren’t widely known about and understood. It would not surprise me at all to discover Latin priests who are disobedient (willful or ignorant) when it comes to handling having people from a different Particular Church in their midst – especially on the topic of giving Communion to those under the normal Latin Church age.

Furthermore, I wouldn’t put it past some know-it-all, busybody emHC to stir up the problem in the first place.

Afterall, the first time I attended the Divine Liturgy in a Byzantine Catholic Church, I called ahead for instructions on receiving Communion. The parish secretary told me that I had to talk to the priest, as she didn’t think that I, a Latin Riter, could receive Communion in her church. (The priest later told me that the secretary meant well, but Latin Catholics rarely call ahead, so she just didn’t know).
 
MusicMan said:
I don’t have any problems believing this. Priests are also human beings, with human failings.

The Eastern Churches aren’t widely known about and understood. It would not surprise me at all to discover Latin priests who are disobedient (willful or ignorant) when it comes to handling having people from a different Particular Church in their midst – especially on the topic of giving Communion to those under the normal Latin Church age.

Furthermore, I wouldn’t put it past some know-it-all, busybody emHC to stir up the problem in the first place.

Afterall, the first time I attended the Divine Liturgy in a Byzantine Catholic Church, I called ahead for instructions on receiving Communion. The parish secretary told me that I had to talk to the priest, as she didn’t think that I, a Latin Riter, could receive Communion in her church. (The priest later told me that the secretary meant well, but Latin Catholics rarely call ahead, so she just didn’t know).
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Oh, I have given Eastern Catholic infants communion (I knew them from my other parish) and the “traditionalist” EMsHC turned purple with rage.

On the other hand if they were refused and the pastor would not immediately correct the situation, a letter (and likely even a phone call) would cure the problem in a day. This is the sorta stuff the Holy See would jump on…
 
The woman who gives her son the host can be experiencing something in her life that causes her to act in this way. Or the boy is experiencing some problems and she hopes that this act will bring her comfort.

There are many human reasons for her to act the way she does. Depending on her heart, I don’t think god is offended by such actions. Why would he? But the priest should find out why she is giving the host to her son. This would be a good thing to do and it would be a good opportunity to talk to the woman and get to know her as a person.
 
Woodstock said:
They would go through RCIC. I think they should not be confirmed unless they’ve reached the age of reason, but they should be confirmed and then communed if they go through RCIC after the age of reason.
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Yes, you are right, one who is not an adult would not go through RCIA but RCIC. The same holds true. I am not sure about the age exactly, but I know that they receive all of the sacraments of initiation at once. (seems to me I have seen some quite young ones)
 
ForMary said:
If the priest saw her (and you indicate that he did and seemed mad) then leave it to him.

If it were me (though I’m probably much older than you) I might (depending on how it struck me) have a word after Mass with her if I saw it…just out of curiosity. Something like, I noticed you broke your communion host in half and shared it with your son, I’ve never seen that before, where did you learn that? I didn’t know that was permissible. I’ll bring that up at my next catechist class, sometimes I miss things and maybe they can bring me up to speed (if she doesn’t) …etc…

This would let her know that:

  1. *]Someone did see it,
    *]It was a curious behavior,
    *]It is questionable, and
    *]I am going to be asking about it.
    I would not be accusatory at all, because I don’t know why she did it and am interested to know why.
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  1. This is truly an excellent suggestion! It is approached with a humble heart and gives either side the opportunity to bow out gracefully if corrected.

    While I didn’t agree with you in another thread, I whole-heartedly agree with you here. Welcome to CAF! 👋
 
e-catholic said:
Yes, you are right, one who is not an adult would not go through RCIA but RCIC. The same holds true. I am not sure about the age exactly, but I know that they receive all of the sacraments of initiation at once. (seems to me I have seen some quite young ones)
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One who is not an “adult” (of catechetical age) according to Canon Law, would only receive the Sacrament of Baptism using the Rite of Infant Baptism. They would not be permitted by Canon Law to receive all three Sacraments of Initiation throught the Rite Of Christian Initiation of Adults.
 
why_me said:
The woman who gives her son the host can be experiencing something in her life that causes her to act in this way. Or the boy is experiencing some problems and she hopes that this act will bring her comfort.

There are many human reasons for her to act the way she does. Depending on her heart, I don’t think god is offended by such actions. Why would he? But the priest should find out why she is giving the host to her son. This would be a good thing to do and it would be a good opportunity to talk to the woman and get to know her as a person.
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There are numerous reasons why she might be doing it, but if the child is being given the Host in contravention of the rules of the Church it is still wrong. The kindest thing to do is to stop her doing it because it is improper and every time she does it she could well be committing a fairly serious sin.
 
I don’t think anyone posting here is of the mind that this woman is doing the right thing – in fact, we’re all pretty much in agreement that she’s in the wrong.

I believe the point of our discourse here is to speculate on why she is doing what she is doing. Is it something erroneous on her part, or is there an external issue causing the situaiton?
 
We are all speculating, true. We can speculate on and on but I think the point is what the op should do about the situation. Since op is at this time speculating also, I think the best thing to be done is to get in touch with the parish priest before the next Sunday Mass and discuss the situation. Since it seems this woman is attending regularly and will probably show up again soon ,once op talks to his priest he has taken some action to rectify possible abuse of the Eucharist and putting it in the hands of the parish priest who is probably the best person to handle the situation from here.
 
masondoggy: any chance you could ask the lady why she did that and let us know?
 
anamchara said:
I don’t see any reason for anger since we don’t know what is in this womens heart or mind. A couple of things could be going on. The child might be older than you think, not sure if you are getting a good look at him. Perhaps he suffers from autism and might have a melt down if he went up to recieve. Or the women may not be Catholic and is misunderstanding how to recieve and how old you have to be. 🤷 Or she could have issues herself, we don’t know. I wouldn’t get angry, I’d be concerned about the women and the little boy. If it were me,I would just ask the priest about it after Mass. Maybe phrase it in a way that doesn’t like you are being a busy body. Example, " Father, I don’t mean to sound like a busy body and I’m sorry if I do but I’m concerned about this women who is not consuming the host and is breaking in half and giving to her son who looks too young, is there something wrong are they new here?"

You said the priest saw it so maybe he has said something and you just don’t know. Talk to the Priest. 🙂
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It is NEVER the place of someone who is not commissioned to distribute the Eucharist to do so.
 
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