Woman Told of Fetal Abnormalities: "I Will Not be the Killing Hand."

[Chris_LaRock]

Seems to me you are trying to create a red herring here.
Your own initial foray into this debate addressed only the woman’s choices.
You cannot blame susequent responses to your initial answer not mentioning a man’s side on anyone but yourself.

Pro-Choicers are shifty and inhuman, lacking any true compassion for those children being killed by ‘choice’. That is why I refuse to even listen to them when they try to defend this murder.

They have had the last 35 years to impose this principal on our nation. What has been the result?

• 50,000,000 murdered babies.
• millions of psychologically wounded men and women.

*Women physically wounded and hurt, many unable to have children later in life.

• The rapidly declining respect for human life, relegating it to a ‘choice’ like when you either choose to have fries with a meal or not.

Are the pro-aborts really worth listening to? I don’t think so! Anyone who defends something that has brought forth so much meaningless death and suffering isn’t worth even giving the time of day to.

 

[vz71]

Anyone who defends something that has brought forth so much meaningless death and suffering isn’t worth even giving the time of day to.

If we do not maintain some form of dialogue, how can we hope to convince them that their arguments are wrong?

 

[Chris_LaRock]

If we do not maintain some form of dialogue, how can we hope to convince them that their arguments are wrong?

People who are hard hearted and see children as disposable garbage cannot be reasoned with. I learned that the hard way myself when I tried it.

 

[estesbob]

The Child has reached 20 weeks’ gestation. The mother says she has been assured that The Child knows no pain. Not that The Child knows no pain from the malformation of The Child 's brain or its heart problem. According to the report, this mother has been told that theThe Child knows no pain from holoprosencephaly, which might include cranio-facial abnormalities or skeletal or neurological or muscular problems. Might the person(s) who told her that be medical staff who have considerable experince about the condition of her child ? If this The Child is not suffering from any or all of these conditions, then I feel it is fair to say that The Child cannot feel pain.

Of course the Catholic mom should have a choice to not to kill her child a . So should moms of every faith - or no faith. By the same token, there will continue to be moms who need to consider killing their child when presented with the news they are pregnant. Not all women will decide to kill their child .

This is the essence of killing children. Your decision to kill your child might not be shared by other mothers.

marietta

Replaced euphanisms are in** BOLD**

 

[Amolibri]

Replaced euphanisms are in** BOLD**

what’s a “euphanism”

 

[vz71]

People who are hard hearted and see children as disposable garbage cannot be reasoned with. I learned that the hard way myself when I tried it.

Fair enough. I can agree that someone that is hard-hearted and sees children as garbage cannot be reasoned with.

But how do you find out which ones they are?

I humbly submit that someone that is pro-abortion, and espouses this opinion on a catholic web page in a catholic forum in which the majority are pro-life is probably searching for something.

 

[estesbob]

what’s a “euphanism”

A mispelling of euphemism

A euphemism is the substitution of an agreeable or less offensive expression in place of one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant to the listener …

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I humbly submit that someone that is pro-abortion, and espouses this opinion on a catholic web page in a catholic forum in which the majority are pro-life is probably searching for something.

That might be true among some, but I suspect that most of them are just pro-abort trolls who come on here to provoke and stir trouble.

The prolifeamerica forum is crawling with pro-abort trolls, and I hardly can stomach going there to post anything.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Do you, like strngrnrth, believe that it is also the man’s choice not to have sex?

Yes. If consensual they share equal responsibility and liability.

If that is so, why did you not state your full thought on the issue? As a matter of fact, I see that you have assigned responsibility to the man only **after **conception in your post:

I sometimes forget that some people don’t share the inate sense of personal responsibility and liability that most rational people do.

Legalisms aside, would it have weakened your argument to recognize women’s **and men’s **complete responsibility in unwanted conception without someone having to lasso it and drag it out of you?

For those who do not believe in God or remove Him from the equation of abortion the civil law reigns supreme unless they advocate anarchy. You can’t push the legal issue aside.

Even if abortion was passed by Congress and signed by a President into a legitimate law as prescribed by the Constitution it would still be invalid because it violates the premis of our Declaration and Constitution that Life and Liberty~along with the pursuit of Happiness are not things granted by man or government but that this government is charged to protect the citizens right to life and liberty. The child is a citizen of the United States even for the illigal immigrant though the 14th Amendment is misapplied to them. Though you don’t seem to recognize the human right of the child, you should see its rights as an American citizen.

Did you hope the “oversight” would go unnoticed?

marietta

A criminal has protections of law that go to great lengths to protect a condemned person found guilty in a court of law. The baby deserves their day in court. Let the man and woman plead their case to a judge in order to kill the child, and let a lawyer speak for the baby if no one else will like they do with serial rapists, murderes and child molseters. That is fair isn’t it?

 

[mapleoak]

*"*Legalisms aside, would it have weakened your argument to recognize women’s **and men’s **complete responsibility in unwanted conception without someone having to lasso it and drag it out of you?

Did you hope the “oversight” would go unnoticed?

marietta

Isn’t it amazing how the pro-abortion industry is so vigorous in their agenda to deny fathers any rights at all to their unborn children?

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Isn’t it amazing how the pro-abortion industry is so vigorous in their agenda to deny fathers any rights at all to their unborn children?

That’s what I was wondering. Why all the sudden is the pp concerned about the man’s choice, when men currently aren’t given ANY choice, even if married, when it comes to child bearing? Many men have sued to try and stop their girlfriends from aborting their children, only to be told by the Courts that it’s not their “choice”, it’s soley the woman’s decisian (sp? Why can’t I spell that word today?). However, should the man not want the child, not only can he NOT force the woman to abort (legally, that is, we all know that a lot of abortions are coerced, but it’s supposed to be illegal; and of course there are those monsters who kill the child by assaulting or killing the mother), but he is forced to financially support the child for 18 years. Quite the double standard, isn’t it?

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[Magster]

The idea that it is better to exterminate the child prior to birth to avoid any pain to the child is inconsistent with Christ’s willing acceptance of death on the cross. Would it have been better for someone to have put Christ, while dying on the cross, out of his misery by stabbing him? Christ was just as innocent as the unborn baby. We tend to forget the value of redemptive suffering, both the mother’s and the unborn child’s. Although the child may not have detectable brain wave indicating an ability to reason, etc., we have absolutely no way of knowing what communication is occurring between the child and God.

 

[marietta]

allgirls writes:

“That’s what I was wondering. Why all the sudden is the pp concerned about the man’s choice, when men currently aren’t given ANY choice, even if married, when it comes to child bearing?”

I’m guessing the reference to the previous poster means marietta, so I’m going to address your wondering mind with this:

My point was that, excluding rape, men have choice equal to that of women when it comes to intercourse. A man’s responsibility does not begin when his pregnant pal picks up the phone to call an abortion clinic. It begins in his mind long before the he picks up his date, and it continues every single time the thought of intercourse crosses his mind, into engagement, into marriage, into “how many children do we want?” Of course, given the difficulty so many parents have discussion sex with their children, is it any surprise that kids leave home with so little accurate knowledge about how their bodies and minds work, together and independently?

No, men do not have any choice when it comes to childbearing. But they have not been castrated by the courts where the decision to have a sexual relationship is concerned. Their responsibility, as is women’s responsibility, begins with “What’s your name?” or “Do you come here often?” So I don’t have pity for men who have sued the courts to try to force their “loved ones” to carry a pregnancy to term. By this point they have had multiple chances to be responsible and have failed.

magster writes:

“Would it have been better for someone to have put Christ, while dying on the cross, out of his misery by stabbing him?” * " . . . the legionnaire drove his lance through the fifth interspace between the ribs, upward through the pericardium and into the heart." - A Physician Testifies About The Crucifixion. *I think, though, that this was just to be sure Christ was dead.

marietta

 

[Chris_LaRock]

That’s what I was wondering. Why all the sudden is the pp concerned about the man’s choice, when men currently aren’t given ANY choice, even if married, when it comes to child bearing? Many men have sued to try and stop their girlfriends from aborting their children, only to be told by the Courts that it’s not their “choice”, it’s soley the woman’s decisian (sp? Why can’t I spell that word today?). However, should the man not want the child, not only can he NOT force the woman to abort (legally, that is, we all know that a lot of abortions are coerced, but it’s supposed to be illegal; and of course there are those monsters who kill the child by assaulting or killing the mother), but he is forced to financially support the child for 18 years. Quite the double standard, isn’t it?

In Christ,

Ellen

I know a woman who was forced to abort her son at 5 months into the pregnancy.

Any time the law makers try to outlaw forced abortion, the so-called “pro-choice” groups come out in protest.

They are more interested in protecting the financial interests of abortionists, I suppose.

 

[mapleoak]

Many men have sued to try and stop their girlfriends from aborting their children, only to be told by the Courts that it’s not their “choice”, it’s soley the woman’s decisian (sp? Why can’t I spell that word today?). However, should the man not want the child, not only can he NOT force the woman to abort (legally, that is, we all know that a lot of abortions are coerced, but it’s supposed to be illegal; and of course there are those monsters who kill the child by assaulting or killing the mother), but he is forced to financially support the child for 18 years. Quite the double standard, isn’t it?

In Christ,

Ellen

To be sure, the pro-abortion industry is all about lies, deception, and of double standards. Whenever they twist reality to support their intentions of making money killing babies, these deficiencies cannot help but come to the surface.

 

[mapleoak]

My point was that, excluding rape, men have choice equal to that of women when it comes to intercourse. A man’s responsibility does not begin when his pregnant pal picks up the phone to call an abortion clinic. It begins in his mind long before the he picks up his date, and it continues every single time the thought of intercourse crosses his mind, into engagement, into marriage, into “how many children do we want?” Of course, given the difficulty so many parents have discussion sex with their children, is it any surprise that kids leave home with so little accurate knowledge about how their bodies and minds work, together and independently?

This is an excellent example of this double standard. Marietta claims men are responsible and bound for life if and only if the women decides not to commit murder. If she does decide to commit murder, the man is off the hook, but he has no say so in the matter.
To show that the pro-life forces and all those who respect life truthfully hold no such double standard it is pointed out that both men and women responsible for their childrens’ well being at all stages of life up until they are old to enough to live on their own and support themselves. Women are responsible for the safety of their unborn children while in their womb, after leaving the womb, on so on. Men are likewise responsible for the wellbeing of both the mother and the unborn child while in her womb as well as afterward. If this means paying child support is required, so it is.

No, men do not have any choice when it comes to childbearing.

Sure they do. They are responsible for the well being of the mother and the child, including all necessary support this requires.

But they have not been castrated by the courts where the decision to have a sexual relationship is concerned.

Women have not been castrated in this regard neither. They have both by their actions, pledged their responsibilities to each other and their children.

Their responsibility, as is women’s responsibility, begins with “What’s your name?” or “Do you come here often?” So I don’t have pity for men who have sued the courts to try to force their “loved ones” to carry a pregnancy to term.

How the one equates with the other is beyond me.

By this point they have had multiple chances to be responsible and have failed.

Responsibilty continues on long after the child is conceived and on up to adulthood. Initial failure at being responsible does not vanquish all further responsibility. One picks up his cross and works to right their wrong. Again, no double standards.

“Would it have been better for someone to have put Christ, while dying on the cross, out of his misery by stabbing him?”

" . . . the legionnaire drove his lance through the fifth interspace between the ribs, upward through the pericardium and into the heart." -* A Physician Testifies About The Crucifixion.*

The Romans happened to be very well skilled in the art of killing. There was no such thing as someone accidentally being buried alive, and there would certainly be no such thing as someone pretending to die and then rise up again. Hence, the legionnaire’s required final action to ensure Christ’s death on the cross. Certainly not a move made out of compassion.

 

[vz71]

I don’t have pity for men who have sued the courts to try to force their “loved ones” to carry a pregnancy to term. By this point they have had multiple chances to be responsible and have failed.

Facinating.
Did you miss the irony in your statement here?

It is just fine that men have made the decision and have to live with it, but it is wrong for a woman to have to do the same.

 

[mapleoak]

Facinating.
Did you miss the irony in your statement here?

It is just fine that men have made the decision and have to live with it, but it is wrong for a woman to have to do the same.

Exactly. And according to her statement, men’s responsibility is solely determined by the woman and whether she chooses to kill or not.

 

[st_lucy]

No, men do not have any choice when it comes to childbearing. But they have not been castrated by the courts where the decision to have a sexual relationship is concerned. Their responsibility, as is women’s responsibility, begins with “What’s your name?” or “Do you come here often?” So I don’t have pity for men who have sued the courts to try to force their “loved ones” to carry a pregnancy to term. By this point they have had multiple chances to be responsible and have failed.

I am so confused on what you are trying to say here. Do you not understand what it means to be a parent? Once a child is conceived you become a parent. When you state that “men do not have any choice when it comes to childbearing.” I am sure there are many many men who would disagree with you here, my husband included. When my husband and I became pregnant we were both equally involved in the pregnancy. His responsibility didn’t stop at what is your is name, as you so kindly put it.

Statements such as yours is what has gotten our society in the mess it is in today. You make men out to be evil and unthinking. As a sociologist we learn about the product of labeling an individual and the horrible effects it has. As a mother I have to continually reinforce to my young son that men are not the evil monsters our society (and especially the very unkind, name calling feminist movement group) would like them to be. These horrible labeling of our men are told to our young boys at an early age and reinforced through out adulthood. They are told that all they are good for is sex but that they cannot have a say on wither or not they can be a father unless the women okays it. What kind of message are you sending here.

It is very frustrating to hear these statements.

 

[mapleoak]

No, men do not have any choice when it comes to childbearing.

Woah! I missed something the first time around. There is even more to this statement which makes it so repugnant if not only for its feminist connotation. The truth is that both men and women have a choice when it comes to childbearing. They can decide if they want to begin the process of parenthood or not. Once this process commences it cannot be stopped by either party unless a murder takes place. You would be correct if when you say “men do not have any choice when it comes to childbearing” you are referring to the fact that they do not have a choice to kill their unborn child. Note that the feminist propaganda states that since “women are more equal” therefore they do have the right to kill their unborn child. This is further indication of a double standard. Neither man nor woman has the privilege of killing their unborn child. No double standard. No false feminist agenda full of lies and deception.
If on the other hand, when you say “men do not have any choice when it comes to childbearing”, you are indicating that women do have that choice, then you are blantantly holding up an Orwellian farm poster.