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nydas
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NO!!! I already said i do not condone his actions. There were better ways of handling the situation. He should be locked up for murder. But this was not a hate crime. He did not kill her for being a christian.
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Riley259
Guest
Catholics believe that people with same-sex attractions are children of God and are equally worthy of respect, love and dignity. However, if a person with same-sex attractions engages in sexual relations with a member of the same sex (and with anybody of either gender outside a sacramental marital bond for that matter), then he or she is engaging in a gravely sinful act. So if I state that my belief that homosexual sexual relations is sinful and against natural law, I should expect that someone will attack me and possibly try to kill me…Is that what you’re saying? Would you expect to be visciously attacked by faithful Christians because you state your atheistic beliefs? Please.
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nydas
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Except theres one major differeince you failed to mention. I dont go around to christians telling them that there wrong and that there acts are evil. Infact the only time i get in a religious discussion is when someone else brings it up. Where as many christians SEEK out homosexuals and do just that.
Leave them alone and they will leave you alone. Its that simple. Insult them and make them mad, then dont be suprised if they retalite. Many people only know how to solve a problem with violence.
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Jaypeeto3
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Nydas is WAAAAAAAY off base telling Christians to keep our beliefs to ourselves. To the contrary, Christ commanded us to proclaim the ENTIRE gospel, including the moral law, to each and every person on earth. Mary was simply proclaiming the moral law of God. She died a martyr. And if that man does not repent for killing her and convert 100% to Christ and the Catholic faith, he will burn in hell for all eternity.
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rlg94086
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You may think so, but I just had a gay man insult me and my faith last week. I was minding my own business, reading the Compendium of the Catechism on my flight and the guy next to me first asked if I was a priest, then told me how Catholicism is a religion of hate. I won’t tell you what he said about the Pope.
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nydas
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nydas
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How do you know the man was gay?
Many people think that about the catholic church. Just like many people (even people here) think the Muslim religion is one of hate and violence. Do you know why people think this? One look at the churches past and its a resonable conclusion to come to.
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corvidae
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Now I know this happened a while ago.
But there was a gay rally outside of St. Patricks in New York, and at one point, the rally broke into the Church, there was yelling, and throwing of things, most especially condoms. Now, would it be a hate crime for the Catholics in that Church to kill those people. I would have to guess it would be because the free expression of belief was what led to the killing.
But there were no killings, I do not even think there was a lawsuit.
Now if the situation is reversed, and some one standing up for their faith, it is her faith that teaches what she said (I am supposing she said things in line with Catholic teaching although it is possible this is not the case) then if she is killed because the person does not like it, it is because of her free expression of belief that she was killed.
As imprudent of her as saying these things may have been, it does not take away the hate crime aspect.
A lone Raven
But there was a gay rally outside of St. Patricks in New York, and at one point, the rally broke into the Church, there was yelling, and throwing of things, most especially condoms. Now, would it be a hate crime for the Catholics in that Church to kill those people. I would have to guess it would be because the free expression of belief was what led to the killing.
But there were no killings, I do not even think there was a lawsuit.
Now if the situation is reversed, and some one standing up for their faith, it is her faith that teaches what she said (I am supposing she said things in line with Catholic teaching although it is possible this is not the case) then if she is killed because the person does not like it, it is because of her free expression of belief that she was killed.
As imprudent of her as saying these things may have been, it does not take away the hate crime aspect.
A lone Raven
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nydas
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Actually, it would have been self defense, since they broke into the church. .
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Riley259
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By virtue of your posts, you’re essentially telling Catholics that we’re wrong (something you claim you don’t do) about our beliefs regarding homosexual relations. You’re being disingenious by suggesting that all Christians go around telling homosexuals they are wrong - you paint a picture of Christians initiating confrontations with gays and spewing hateful things. The truth is that most of the responses from Christians who don’t endorse the gay lifestyle are in defense of orthodox Christian teaching and in response to their (I’m speaking about gay activists) agenda-pushing acts (ex., promoting gay marriage, pushing the “normalization” of homosexuality in early education, etc.). With few exceptions, I think you have it backwards, my friend.
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Reepicheep
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Nydas, you are right now telling us Christians that we’re wrong.
We didn’t SEEK you out, you came to us to say this.
“Many Christians SEEK out homosexuals”…and many Christians do not. And many homosexuals SEEK out Chrisitans to confront us (and many do not).
“Insult them and make them mad, then don’t be surprised if they retaliate.”
…She says something that makes him mad: he beats her, rapes her, kills her, hides the body.
There was a time when the murder of black people by white bigots was excused in this way.
“That nigga just insulted me by his uppity ways. I just naturally had to do something about it, and that’s why I stabbed him twenty-seven times.”
The Civil Rights movement rightfully put a stop to that, and thank God they did. Only—then why is it still ok to do that to a Catholic?
“Many people only know how to solve a problem with violence.”
And this* justifies it?
This excuses it? Nydas, think what you say! You are condoning rape and murder because of the victim’s* words**!!
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nydas
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No. I did not. I never said you were wrong. I simply said mind your own business.
I have never seen the civil rights movment used as an analogy against homosexuals. But i have seen it countless times where the church is portrayed as the white oppresser and the homosexuals are portrayed as the blacks.
NOO!!! You people are putting words in my mouth! It DOES NOT justify it. I never said it did!!! What im saying is dont turn a lack of self controle on the part of the man into a hate crime.“Many people only know how to solve a problem with violence.”
And this* justifies it?
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corvidae
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I thought that you actually had to be attacked for self defense. I mean, if you shoot someone just because they trespassed on your lawn or something, it does not mean self defense. I doubt that the people in the Church felt like they were going to be harmed by the “demonstration” just annoyed by it, so self defense does not work.
A lone Raven
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Writer
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You’re right–to a point, anyway. You must be in a position where you feel that you are being threatened directly and personally. I don’t think a homeowner always has the right to shoot an intruder unless he believes he’s in physical danger. That get’s into a gray area, however… If protestors broke into a church and didn’t threaten anyone with violence, responding by shooting them would almost certainly land someone in prison for a long time. One’s life must be in peril before you use a firearm to defend yourself–perhaps even more so, if it is not your own residence.
There is a double standard here. I never supported “hate crimes” to begin with–a crime is a crime. Now that we have them, though, we should insist that everyone is entitled to justice and fairness (in this case, “fairness” means something different than the ordinary crime of murder) under the law.
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rlg94086
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I took him at his word.
You are changing the subject. I didn’t say anything to earn this man’s ire. I was sitting and reading the book. You said, “Leave them alone and they will leave you alone. Its that simple.” That statement is false.
You are changing the subject. I didn’t say anything to earn this man’s ire. I was sitting and reading the book. You said, “Leave them alone and they will leave you alone. Its that simple.” That statement is false.
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Dale_M
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Actually, he said:
I am not going to pass judgement on the accused because I am not hearing all the testimony, but the “fightin’ words” defense went out of fashion with the wild west. His defense strategy is not that different from the “gay panic” defense - what used to be claimed by guys who attacked a homosexual because the gay reportedly made a pass at them.
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WanderAimlessly
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So what you are saying that we are not allowed to express our opinion of something we see as morally abhorant? Wrong my good man. It is exactly what we should do and not let them shove their immorality down our throat.
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deb1
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I had a neighbor, who I did not like, once purposely seek me out a friend’s house just to tell me how wrong my beliefs were. He also made fun of my husband for attempting to keep kosher.
He was an atheist but not only would I not have harmed him but I would have defended him if some other Christian had tried to harm him.
So, if I had retalited violently-which I wouldn’t do- would my violence have been partly his fault?
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nydas
Guest
Yes. It would have been. He seeked you out just to insult your beleifs. Infact, had i been in your shoes, i probably would have poped him right in the jaw.
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