Women and Jesus

[Huiou_Theou]

As another odd thought, Hosea had a whore of a wife named Gomer – who he asks rhetorically (paraph)“Do I have to strip you naked for all to see?”
That was one archaic punishment allowed to a husband who didn’t catch them both in the act… But Hosea doesn’t actually DO it, WHY?

Just imagine the woman in either case, “Oh boo hooo, I am absolutely naked in public – see my breasts hang down, I am sore right here between the legs – Oh boo hooo… I’ll have to charge less now that you have already seen the wares…”

And then again, she is there in the temple: "Hi, my name is Aprodite – I am a Greek Goddess, the first of the Hebrew temple form… "

Or, most victim like – “Those AWFUL pharisees dragged me in here like this – and the WHOLE world is looking at me – How terrible, could you give me a blanket PLEAAAASSSSE and where is a secluded spot I can go to…”



Have you ever noticed the Viagra commercials which warn : “If you can’t get rid of the erection for more than X hours … see a doctior!”

 

[NotWorthy]

Huiou, I’m not sure if we’ll agree on this, because we are both simply hypothesizing.

But I did have a final thought on this matter.

What would have happened if the Mother of our Lord would have been there during this scene?

You would have had to file it under, “Great messages that were ruined”…

Think about it!!!

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Huiou, I’m not sure if we’ll agree on this, because we are both simply hypothesizing.

But I did have a final thought on this matter.

What would have happened if the Mother of our Lord would have been there during this scene?

You would have had to file it under, “Great messages that were ruined”…

Think about it!!!

God bless you NotWorthy!!!

Yes, I do agree…

There is even a retort from the Pharisees at one point “we were not born of fornication” to Jesus’ face. If I hadn’t studied the scriptures quite a bit more – I could be a little shaken by the encounter (Good fuel for a DaVinci code sequel…)

As to the OP, which Father is lost and which is found? May God bless him and grant him peace, may the eternal light shine upon the truth.

As a response to “precious”, I can say – My Father asked me a mensa question about how many months have 29 days – I answered all, and was corrected. Now, I don’t talk back to my father so I was silent – but on the last leap year, which was a Sunday, I found my Father in church – and I asked him the same question (No reply.)

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, look again – I think Saphira is accused of ploting with Annias, Acts 5:1. I have to stretch the imagination to think that God would strike her dead for being afraid of crossing her husband – God reads the hearts.

As far as Magdaline goes, that is something my dad likes to hold – she apparently “liked men” and sex, and was quite independently wealthy… A woman of influence…

In the old testament, certain women were allowed to inherit property themselves as an act of Justice by Moses – so the Jewish law was not quite as oppresive as some might think.

Ill tell ya what i am going to bible study on wed, i missed the last few weeks because i had too. But all i can say is on Acts 5:1 i will get back to ya. But as far as Mary Magdaline, yes she was a sinner but she did not betray Jesus. As soon as she met Jesus she repented and changed her ways. Think about it what did he say More or less repent and sin no more, Where did you see after she met CHrist that she betrayed him or as your dad likes to say, had sex. Sorry about that one but she didnt she was forgiven and as far as the bible has it she became a good women. She was at the foot of Christ when he died holding his Mother. But i did hit the first 2 weeks of bible study and then i had to miss. God i wish my Dad was here,. He knew this and he was never wrong. Ironically it was only because God called him home 2 weeks ago that i dont have the answer for you now. But i promise on wed night or thur i will get the right answer, this is a Catholic Bible study. IF i dont get it from him i will ask Father in confession. I didnt get there because of my Dad but i will get there. Be Back look for me

 

[rinnie]

Also in Acts 5 Now this is just me speaking, but again i cant state true scripture, i do not have that authority, but it says that a man Sapphira sold a piece of property he retained for himself with his wifes knowledge, Now its doesnt say with his wifes consent, or with his wifes blessing, it doesnt say they agreed to do this, it says she was told. Now yes she did lie, that is a fact, but did she betray Jesus because she wanted too. Or did she lie because she was afraid to tell the truth, To lie when pushed in a corner is not right, i agree, but havent we all done it. But did it say that she told her husband do this, or lets do this, or do this for me. no. But it did say she knew it, . Now this is just my take on this. And again for me to argue that i am right would be wrong, so i will find out the real answer on this. That is why what i think and see is not always right. That is why we have leaders to tell us the truth. And again that is why Jesus didnt give me a bible and say here figure it out. But he did leave us teachers and i will find out. And as far as Mary goes if she betrayed Jesus by sinning then that means when we confess our sins and quit sinning we arent forgiven? They just dont make sense.

 

[Nita]

Okay in Acts the women didnt betray Jesus. She was aware of what her husband did that is all she was guilty of and she did lie for him. Women in those days had no authority alone own anything. She had no say in it. She only lied because in those days you didnt cross your husband. Now as far as John 8 im not seeing it. …

She lied - and that is sin/betrayal.
I’m sure she had her “reasons” for going along (vs 2 and 9) with her husband - but Scripture doesn’t reveal them so all we can do is guess. What we do know is that God deemed it right to punish her as well as her husband, and God is just .

Nita

 

[rinnie]

She lied - and that is sin/betrayal.
I’m sure she had her “reasons” for going along (vs 2 and 9) with her husband - but Scripture doesn’t reveal them so all we can do is guess. What we do know is that God deemed it right to punish her as well as her husband, and God is just .

Nita

okay here it is. the fault of Ananias and Sapphira is outof avarice, to have tried to cheat the apostle and through them the Holy Spirit present in the brethren to whom they lied. The purpose of this disturbing story is probally to show Peters prophetic authority in the community. Besides it was Peter not Jesus. Read it again it is through the Holy Spirit that it was revealed to Peter. Think about it, how did Peter know that they lied. But my point, they didnt betray Jesus they lied to the apostles and Peter. They didnt realize that by lying to Peter and the Apostles that they were indeed lying to God. If so they would have probally not have done so.

 

[Nita]

Huiou Theou;3434145:

NotWorthy;3433985:

But the text doesn’t indicate the woman is anything other than a pawn for the Pharisees and Scribes.
…
E) The teachers shames the crowd of “righteous” people into leaving her alone without harm.
…
.

Remember hearing Scott Hahn talk about this incident. Loved it. He noted that when Jesus said “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”, He put the scribes and Pharisees in the very trap they had planned to put Him (Jesus) in!!!
If they set themselves forth as not guilty and stoned the woman, they would be in trouble with the Roman authorities.
If they didn’t stone the woman, they would appear to acknowledge themselves guilty in the eyes of the onlookers and lose face.

Scott commented that the older ones, being wiser, were the first to recognize how Jesus had turned the tables on them - hence vs 9 “But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, …”

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Psalm 57:6b They dug a pit in my way, but they have fallen into it themselves.

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Nita

 

[NotWorthy]

Remember hearing Scott Hahn talk about this incident. Loved it. He noted that when Jesus said “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”, He put the scribes and Pharisees in the very trap they had planned to put Him (Jesus) in!!!
If they set themselves forth as not guilty and stoned the woman, they would be in trouble with the Roman authorities.
If they didn’t stone the woman, they would appear to acknowledge themselves guilty in the eyes of the onlookers and lose face.

Scott commented that the older ones, being wiser, were the first to recognize how Jesus had turned the tables on them - hence vs 9 “But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, …”

---

Psalm 57:6b They dug a pit in my way, but they have fallen into it themselves.

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Nita

Yes, I read his article on “Scripture Matters” on this subject years ago. It was wonderful!!!

I think you’ve got it spot on.

And again, let’s all be thankful that Mother Mary wasn’t there or else the whole lesson would have been ruined!

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Ill tell ya what i am going to bible study on wed, i missed the last few weeks because i had too. But all i can say is on Acts 5:1 i will get back to ya. … i will ask Father in confession. I didnt get there because of my Dad but i will get there. Be Back look for me

Excellent. You have answered well… I will be glad to hear the next installment…

 

[Cara_Serrano]

Regardless of whether any women betrayed Jesus in His lifetime, we (men and women) have all betrayed Him since then.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

NotWorthy;3434165:

Huiou Theou;3434145:

Remember hearing Scott Hahn talk about this incident. … He put the scribes and Pharisees in the very trap they had planned to put Him (Jesus) in!!!

Aye, I would back Scott on that point! – and then some, due to the nature of the writing on the stone floor … which sort of mocks the Scibes, and at the same time points back to the writing of the 10 Good commandments on the “hearts/tables of stone” by God in the old testament.

If they didn’t stone the woman, they would appear to acknowledge themselves guilty in the eyes of the onlookers and lose face.

Aye, but I think Scott might be a little over exuberant here …
As a thought… if the woman were “stunned” is the audience really pre-disposed to despise the Pharisees? (eg: what portion was against the Pharisees? , and what portion merely longed for the return of the Mosaic law to its rightful authority in their nation).

Jesus has them in a stalemate – but it seems like the vindication of Jesus is more for the eyes of believers than for all the Jews in the temple with their varied positions and outlooks. If it took the young ones of the “bright” so long to figure out what had happened (hypothetically)… then, the young ones were perhaps more ensnared in the trap as was the crowd.

Scott commented that the older ones, being wiser, were the first to recognize how Jesus had turned the tables on them - hence vs 9 “But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, …”

---

Psalm 57:6b They dug a pit in my way, but they have fallen into it themselves

.

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Nita

Nita, I love the Psalm comment!

But there is even more truth in what you have said, than perhaps what Scott points out about them and their wisdom.
For, men – especially Pharisees, from what I have come across so far – have a tendency of being the lustful ones.
The technicalities in the Law were always bent in favor of the Pharisees, not the Pharisees in favor of the Law. Jesus calls them Hypocrites for a reason.

The one final comment I would have on this, is that the whore is a snare to the men’s eyes – for men are more visually susceptible than women. In the encounter, Jesus isn’t staring at the Woman but rather has deferred his eyes toward the law being written on the stone, and looks at her only when forced to – in order to dismiss her – but from the scriptural account I can’t help but see that the men’s eyes (all of them, Apostles, crowd and not) had fallen into the trap set here.

What then of the Elders on the way out, who got a “free viewing” so to speak – could they not comment that “well, I didn’t want to stare any longer at her like the lustful crowd – why did you stay there longer than I – is it not clear that Jesus won’t stone her according to the Law?”

Jesus stayed even longer than us, does he want to have children with her … We know what Jesus is like, normally the zealots stone the woman outside … before the Romans catch them…"

In the end, to what degree is anyone shamed?

I think Rinny has a good point — although we don’t know of the outcome – there is more hope for the Woman, than for these men.

 

[Nita]

You know, regarding Jesus writing on the ground, I came upon a passage in Jeremiah some time ago that I found very interesting - and connected with the John passage:

Jer 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake thee shall be put shame; those who turn away from thee shall be written in the earth, for they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living water.

(My poor Bible is so marked up!! Have to tho, or I’d forget - not only where, but what I’d found. )

Nita

 

[Nita]

Nita;3436241:

If they didn’t stone the woman, they would appear to acknowledge themselves guilty in the eyes of the onlookers and lose face

.

Aye, but I think Scott might be a little over exuberant here …

.

Well Huiou, I don’t know about you, but I always used to read the passage and took it as an admission of guilt by the accusers when they didn’t stone the woman (altho now I’m not as sure). My guess is that there have been generations of Scripture readers who have made the same assumption. You might say they appeared guilty/lost face not only before those present at the time, but for all those who would read about it throughout the centuries.

Nita

 

[elt1956]

I think Huiou Theou has it right. Hopefully God doesn’t strike women down simply for standing by their man.
I don’t think there’s any substance to this, other than the fact that it was Christian tradition. I’d also heard that Mary Magdalene was the woman with all the demons in her that Jesus exorcised.

Have you also heard that Mary Magdalene is considered a Saint in some parts of France? Would have to check the name of the area. Legend/Tradition has it that after the crucifixion, Mary Magdalene, a slave girl? Sarah, and another woman came to the shore of this area and lived out her life there. They have built a chapel in her honor and there is a statue (black) representing Sarah which is also in the chapel. There is a great celebration once a year honoring Mary Magdalen’s appearance on their shore. Peace.

 

[NotWorthy]

Have you also heard that Mary Magdalene is considered a Saint in some parts of France? Would have to check the name of the area. Legend/Tradition has it that after the crucifixion, Mary Magdalene, a slave girl? Sarah, and another woman came to the shore of this area and lived out her life there. They have built a chapel in her honor and there is a statue (black) representing Sarah which is also in the chapel. There is a great celebration once a year honoring Mary Magdalen’s appearance on their shore. Peace.

I think our good Dan Brown may have borrowed from that tradition when he wrote the Da Vinci Code. The biggest difference in his take on the matter was that Mary M. was the Sacred Grail - she was pregnant with Jesus baby

 

[Huiou_Theou]

You know, regarding Jesus writing on the ground, I came upon a passage in Jeremiah some time ago that I found very interesting - and connected with the John passage:

Jer 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake thee shall be put shame; those who turn away from thee shall be written in the earth, for they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living water.

(My poor Bible is so marked up!! Have to tho, or I’d forget - not only where, but what I’d found. )

Nita

Yeah, I know what you mean – when my battle computer crashed and the bible on the hard drive became a paperweight – I was pretty annoyed, I had to sit and try and think Where was that passage again …

That is a really interesting passage, it seems to tie together many ideas – as I think the “graven shame” is inscribed on the hearts/altars is in the chapter before the one you cite? (Jeremiah 17:1)( Like in the mass, but with shame instead of eulogy/doxology – where we are asked to “Lift up your hearts” to have the law written in our hearts.)

Also in my handy bible(s), (paper), the passage 17:3 has “sand” or “sheol” – registered (inscribed) in sheol.

I don’t have the Greek here with me (I’m with my kids right now) – does that actually say in the “Earth” or “Sand” or “Land” or what in the original(s).

I am curious, as the fountain of living water points forth to those sayings where Jesus cries out at the temple – and the gate of Sheol, I occasionally hear, was believed to be under the floor of the temple. The temple, of course, was made of specially formed stone (no iron tooling was allowed to cut it, if I remember right – unhewn stone?) – so generally it wasn’t permitted to be “dirty” where the people congregated – except perhaps where the animals were …

So, do you see Jesus writing in fifth on the temple floor with his solitary finger (the only other recorded place of a single finger (not fingers) writing on something is the 10 commandments…)

I am thinking, he is sitting on the ground as is his custom – which according to other scriptures was to teach day by day In the temple…

Just a thought…

 

[elt1956]

I think our good Dan Brown may have borrowed from that tradition when he wrote the Da Vinci Code. The biggest difference in his take on the matter was that Mary M. was the Sacred Grail - she was pregnant with Jesus baby

Yes, good old Dan Brown borrowed a lot, but the place does exist. I will have to see if I can find it again. I have seen documentaries regarding it on the History Channel etc. and on the web. Peace

 

[NotWorthy]

Yes, good old Dan Brown borrowed a lot, but the place does exist. I will have to see if I can find it again. I have seen documentaries regarding it on the History Channel etc. and on the web. Peace

Yes, I understood. Everything Dan wrote about had it’s seeds in truth, they just didn’t bloom entirely.

 

[rinnie]

Yes, good old Dan Brown borrowed a lot, but the place does exist. I will have to see if I can find it again. I have seen documentaries regarding it on the History Channel etc. and on the web. Peace

Be carefull about the history channel its not always accurate. I cant remember if its the history channel or discovery that on EWTN that Father said they are always attacking the CC.