Okay, I understand that. However I fail to see where they could have derived that opinion from what I see here♦. Do you have the tafsir/s and/or hadith/s to link to for us in English. Or an explanation from one of your authentic scholars referring to tafsir/s and/or hadiths?
Meedo,
Mohammad couldnt handle is nagging wives. He was frustrated and angry at the times they didnt give him the respect he deemed proper in his own home (who but his wives knew him better?)…and took it out on all women in his invented religion. Common sense tells me this is more true than what Muslim scholars have come to understand of this hadith.
tha’ts what i thought at first… but being female myself, i am coming to doubt that women are, well… any “better” than men, as it were… In some ways, they seem to be very deficient (spriitually)… I notice within myself, for example, a tendency to focus on relationships too much… even when there is no longer much of a relationship to speak of… not just talking about romantic relationships (don’t have one @ this time, don’t want one)… but anyway… There used to be this relative in my life that i kept trying to “fix” my relationship with… it was hopeless because the person had serious psych problems… but i kept on… Then there were the men i thought i was “in love with”
and I put them before God (idolatry)… though didn’t always SEE that i was doing that…
until i spent a lot of time alone with Jesus in the Real Presence… Have you done much of that?I understand what you mean here, but I still think women come out on top because, men do what you described as well. I’ve had to catch myself before for just doing what my SO wants without really considering the consequences. When we’re in love we want to be that way with our SO. I don’t think its necessarily bad, but it can be dangerous. Love is really an all or nothing deal. You can’t love some one to a point, and then say “ok that’s far enough”. If you do then its not love. At the same time we’re not slaves to love and so we need to work to keep it focused in positive direction.tha’ts what i thought at first… but being female myself, i am coming to doubt that women are, well… any “better” than men, as it were… In some ways, they seem to be very deficient (spriitually)… I notice within myself, for example, a tendency to focus on relationships too much… even when there is no longer much of a relationship to speak of… not just talking about romantic relationships (don’t have one @ this time, don’t want one)… but anyway… There used to be this relative in my life that i kept trying to “fix” my relationship with… it was hopeless because the person had serious psych problems… but i kept on… Then there were the men i thought i was “in love with”
anyway… idolatry is a sin that God destroyed whole cities over… I’ve come to the conclusion that idolatry is the name of every sin… in other words, all sin is idolatry… when you think about it… loving something/someone more than God…
God is love so women are right to love but they always seem to “love” humans TOO much…
and that is sin. There is a lot of unhealthy so-called “love” in this world… Humans don’t know anything about love until / unless they know Jesus… and the best way to do that is spend time with Him…
i am not trying to get you irritated (although i probably will just because i am good at irritating people without even trying) but i have to say what i really think here: Your statement really doesn’t say anything at all because you have not defined LOVE… Love is the most mis-used word in the Eng (or any other) language… If we loved people as Christ does, we would love very differerently than we do…
OK, here you begin to define love… although its just a beginning in my humble opinion…
well, not sure what you mean by subjective views… subjectivity (validation of it) will get us on the road to Hell… We must never put our opinion or anyone else’s over those of God… and yet we humans do this all the time, which is very scary… We start beliivng our own lies… believing that what we think/feel is what God thinks/feels… and yet most of the time it probably isn’t close…
in some ways, probably… but men tend to think more objectively. They don’t always practice what they preach or what they really know to be true… but it seems they are less vulnerable to being deceived than women… (just my opinion)… In any case… i think the main thing women and many men do wrong is, as aforementioned… they don’t put God’s opinion over those of their loved ones…I’ve come to have a deep respect for how women view the world, and for the most part I think they’ve got their priorities in a better place than men. Women aren’t perfect but I think you’re closer than we are.
LOL, you aren’t irritating me at all. I suppose one could fill the world with books devoted to the definition of Love. God is Love and how well can He be defined. That said. I would say that first off love is an abondonment of one’s owns desires for the purpose of devoting yourself to the support, benefit, defense and enrichment of another.
Well, there is a difference between loving encouragement and giving someone a pass on their behavior. Love may motivate to think that premissiveness is the loving thing to do but it isn’t. Permissiveness is not born of love its born of either sloth, or a selfish desire to have positive feelings returned. If you love someone you’re concerned about their well being not about what feelings they give back to you. God loves us even though we show Him very little love in return.
It will always be just a begining, love has no end.
Objectivity is just as likely to lead one to hell. One can not have faith in God based on a completely objective approach. Agnostics are possibly the only truly objective point of view. Faith is something that really only has meaning to the person who possesses it. To much objectivity allows us to justify all manner of reationalizations, and it curtails gut instinct which as often as not serves us well. Both subjectivity and objectivity are powerful tools, one allows us to reason out parts of the truth, the other allows us to feel it. Without both we’re in for a pretty meaningless life. Subjectivity allows a person to be open to the mystical with assurance.
No we are of the physical world and are intended to be. God gave us bodies and will quicken us back into them for a reason. The “human realm” is a realm created by God with purpose, and its ours. What we’re not supposed to do is become involved in it to the exclusion of the spritual. Like Christ who is both human and divine. We are both physical and spiritual. Both natures together make us human. We should detach ourselves from the obsessions, and desires that cause us to indulge in one nature to the detriment of the other. Our behavior in this world would be of no consequence if there was not some merit to our actions here.
Men might be less vulnerable to deception but they are also more resistant to belief. Women do not feel shamed by the mystical. Men who are always so concerned about face often are. A man never wants to look foolish, but a woman will totally abandon ego for what she wants, or feels is right. A man will harm another for what he believes but he’s less quick to lessen himself for it. To me this is where women prevail spritually.
I have brought up my own problems with what I consider to be an expansionist ideological strain within Islam. It is something Muslims must address. Yet while serious reservation is reasonable with regards to certain tendencies within Islam what you have posted here is severally incorrect.
so true…
well, people love in an ignorant way when they don’t (intimately) know Jesus… I have loved poeple but not perfectly because, well, for one thing its hard to know what is absolutely BEST for any given person…
i totally don’t agree… There is nothing more logical than the existence of God… True, not everyone knows God so doesn’t know for sure he exists… but if one were to really think things through, well, it doesn’t make much sense for humans to exist, to live in this world… and yet… find no fulfillment in this world… That alone would indicate there HAS to be something beyond this world… (Someone)… True, no one can prove such things to some else’s satisfaction…but anyway, i don’t see the logic of agnostism or atheism… to me it is the most illogical belief sys of all…
I’m somewaht pressed for time so maybe not focusing very well but don’t think i understand this. By objectivity i mean… well, maybe i mean logic or something… or maybe i mean The opposite of Subjectivity… yeah, that…
subjectivity cannot be trusted. For example, subjectively, i used to feel i was a nobody. Jesus disabused me of that notion & he continues to disabuse me of many unhealthy, untrue, objectively wrong ideas/feelings… but ONLY if i LET HIm… and that is not always an easy thing to do… i don’t think its easy for any human being. We cherish and cling to our feelings and our individual realities… often to our own (serioous) detriment…
maybe we are having a problem of definition here but i think we could all live quite well without subjectivity… except when our subjectivity just happens to be the objective truth (it happens)…
do you mean “facts”???
So true!!!
i agree…
This is SO incredibly right on… and this is one reason i bleieve women end up in Hell… or long periods in Purg… The only one we should give our ALL to is Jesus Christ, who gave HIS all for us… and is the only one who can save us. Wehn we die, we do not take our loved ones with us… We have only our soul and what its true condition is… and Jesus Christ… in whose presence we must be able to “stand”…
you are a good person… I think most men think women are Stupid or weak for loving “too much” or too sacrificially or selflessly… Maybe, deep down, i think the same thing… hmmm… no maybe to it… i do… most of the time… Frankly (no offense) but i haven’t found a man i thought was wroth sacrificing for…
hmm… interesting… but i am interested in truth more than downing anyone, including self… Maybe i just don’t know much about what its like to be a man… so - you know… the grass always looks greener on the other side or something…are you appreciating the fact that a we are downplaying our own genders while praising the virtues of the other?
Oh, I agree, I think these people who become permissive towards loved ones do so with good intentions. As a flawed race it had for us to know what battles are worth fighting, and when to put of feet down.
I understand what you’re saying. I guess what I’m getting at is that more often than not people initially come to their relationship with God from an experiential standpoint which since it cannot be shared cannot truly be called objective. Also while as you say one can can objectively say that there is good chance of a supreme being, it becomes more difficult to say that the Christian view is the right one objectively. People of other faiths can make compelling arguments for their version of the divine I know they’re wrong though subjective reasons. I hope that makes sense.
Well truth be told I don’t believe in the existence of Atheists. Agnostics though acknowledge there may be a God or maybe their isn’t. It may be that Christians are right, or perhaps the Jews are, or maybe the hindus, then again maybe there is really is nothing. That is a very object view point. It acknowledges the possibilities but tries not to make judgements. Of course this is the idealized version of agnosticism, most people really aren’t that objective.
LOL, well you might be right, we may in reality see things similarly but we’re describing it differently.
I would say that subjectivity cannot be trusted on its own. It does need objectivity. I would also say that it is true that one can live on objectivity alone (assuming that any human can even do that), but that person would likely miss many opportunities in life. Objectivity depends on being informed, and being wise. Most humans really don’t have much of either. We need subjectivity to inform us of what we don’t know. Again I hope that makes sense.
No I meant face, at this point I was leaving the subjectivity/objectivity and was simply stating that mean have an to much pride.
Like so many things our advantages are often our greatest weaknesses. Women must certainly can be taken down the primrose path because of their willingness to sacrifice themselves. Of course I would say that the people who take advantage of that are in much worse shape (in terms of divine judgement).
You’re very kind. I’m not surprised that you feel that way I’ve often found that women are there own worst critics.
Oh I know you are interested in the truth. You speak very intelligently and try hard to be objective. That is very admirable. There is also nothing wrong with not knowing what it is like to be a man lol. I think that women often give us more credit intellectually than we deserve. Because men are good at internalizing their feelings we give off an image of control that is really an illusion. Men are very confused and conflict creatures. We just hide it well. Which may or may not be a good thing.hmm… interesting… but i am interested in truth more than downing anyone, including self… Maybe i just don’t know much about what its like to be a man… so - you know… the grass always looks greener on the other side or something…
And God bless you sister. I’m enjoying our discussion.
a lot of people think that putting their foot down means being cold/uncaring… mean/selfish, etc… but that is not (objectively
) true…very true… and i am defintiely NOT saying that our feelings (our subjective reality) doesn’t matter… it matters very much and we should never ignore it… but once a person has been with Objective Truth Himself (the Real Presence)… well… your own reality begins to… shrink and/or get “ironed out” or however you want to describe it…
i dont’ either… i think they just say they are atheist so they don’t have to… give an answer to zealous Christians as to why they haven’t accepted Christ… (?)
SO true…
i treat people the way i feel Jesus wants me to… and if i am not sure how he wants me to, i don’t do/say anything (usually
) but peple treat me like dirt most of the time… (so i just stay away from them, which makes them hate me more because then they think lots of negative things… which aren’t necessarily the case - or even CLOSE - but oh well, i just remember what Jesus suffered because of humanoids…
)… Amy,
One thing I agree with here is that there is a deficiency in her religion, not necessarily in her faith in God.
Darn right.