Women as lectors

[Dicerning]

Looks like the world synod of bishops has asked the vatican to open up the former minor priestly order of Lector to Women.

If hope this does not happen.

1. I hope that the ministries are Lector and Acolyte are done away with altogether except for those who are on their way to Holy Orders.
2. My diocese would have a field day with it if the pope approves women into this ministry.
   Right now around here The title Lector and Acolyte are not even mentioned and the VAST majority of Catholics in my diocese haven’t a clue that such ministries exist. If the request is granted I guarantee you that the flood gates of propeganda on the issue would be opened and the diocesan newspaper would be having an expose’ on the job of a lector.

This would be followed by hordes of women attending fast track seminars and little mini ordinations of lectors everywhere.

Its a bad idea in my liberal diocsese…it would get way out of hand and people would be severely misled.

Ok I gave my opinion any comments.

 

[bpbasilphx]

1) I hope that the ministries are Lector and Acolyte are done away with altogether except for those who are on their way to Holy Orders.

**I disagree.

The divinely given order is to have not only Priests (Presbyters) but Deacons and minor ministers (Subdeacon and other minor orders which have varied among the Churches at different times) in every parish!**

 

[Dicerning]

**1)

The divinely given order is to have not only Priests (Presbyters) but Deacons and minor ministers (Subdeacon and other minor orders which have varied among the Churches at different times) in every parish!

I am not sure what you mean? My statement said that I wished only those on their way to holy orders should be instituted into this ministry. THen you indicated that deacons deserve the ministry as Well? I am in formation right now and I will be instituted as a Lector next year. SO for awhile my parish will have a lector.

You do realize that deacons recieve Holy Orders when they are ordained? RIght?

 

[DJgang]

I am a little confused and as not to sound too stupid, I’m off to research… I thought women already did these things…

 

[Dicerning]

I am a little confused and as not to sound too stupid, I’m off to research… I thought women already did these things…

THis is my point above…most people do not realize that prior to the implementation of Vatican II…the priesthood was broken down into minor orders. As a seminarian advanced in years of preparation they were “ordained” into the minor orders. The minor orders were 1)Porter 2)Exorcist3)Lector4)Acolyte

after the minor orders priests were then “ordained” as sub deacons and then ordained as deacons (they still are as transistional deacons) then priests. Hence in the old Baltimore Catechism we were taught the 7 orders of the priesthood.

After Vatican II Porter and Exorcist were done away with and Lector and Acolyte were changed into instituted ministries instead of being called minor orders. Sub-deacon was done away with as well and the ministry of Lector and Acolyte was opened up to Lay persons who were not seeking the priesthood. (but it is only open to men) Most dioceses still only have instituted lectors and acolytes for men who are seeking holy orders. Some dioceses like LIncoln Nebraska…open this ministry up to any suitable man.

I hop this helps. We have an instituted acolyte in my parish (he came from lincoln)…only a very few of us know what he is or understand it.

My point was…if this ministry were open to women EVERYONE would know what a Lector and Acolyte was.

 

[DJgang]

Yes, that does help and I followed your post wonderfully and understand.

Now, my question: Once Lector and Acolyte were open to Lay Persons… then did it become at this discretion of the Dioese whether it would be open to men only or women and men?

Thanks, Dana

And to add a note: I would like to be a Lector, however, something keeps me from speaking up. I would also like to be a EMHC, because I know my personal reverence to the Blessed Sacrament and that I would dress very modestly, be a witness to my reverence and humility that is taught by the Church, however, once again, something keeps me from speaking up. I

 

[Dicerning]

Now, my question: Once Lector and Acolyte were open to Lay Persons… then did it become at this discretion of the Dioese whether it would be open to men only or women and men? I

Yes the ministry was open only to men. Likely because of its connection with the priesthood. (my speculation)
Thanks, Dana

And to add a note: I would like to be a Lector, however, something keeps me from speaking up. I would also like to be a EMHC, because I know my personal reverence to the Blessed Sacrament and that I would dress very modestly, be a witness to my reverence and humility that is taught by the Church, however, once again, something keeps me from speaking up. I

The proper term for a non-instituted individual doing the readings at Mass is reader. With that in mind I encourage you to become a Reader at Mass. I also Encourage you to offer you services as an EMHC.

With that in mind…it is my deepest desire that EMHCs will become un-employed. Remember EMHCs are a response to a shortage of ordained to distribute communion. THey are to be used in Extraordinary Cirucumstances only.

 

[roamncatholic]

Yes, that does help and I followed your post wonderfully and understand.

Now, my question: Once Lector and Acolyte were open to Lay Persons… then did it become at this discretion of the Dioese whether it would be open to men only or women and men?

Thanks, Dana

And to add a note: I would like to be a Lector, however, something keeps me from speaking up. I would also like to be a EMHC, because I know my personal reverence to the Blessed Sacrament and that I would dress very modestly, be a witness to my reverence and humility that is taught by the Church, however, once again, something keeps me from speaking up. I

This may be jumping off subject, but maybe it’s relevant…

With regard to EMHC’s, I can understand the desire to participate in this ministry, but the role is in the title: you are an EXTRAORDINARY MINISTER… that means that they should be utilised ONLY in extraordinary circumstances.

So… who’s the ordinary then? The priests and deacons, of course. Too many times I have seen priests line up 10 or more EMHCs, just to speed things along, when they aren’t even needed. In my home diocese at the Mass for the Bishop’s first anniversary of his ordination, where 30 or more priests were in attendance, there were at least 8 EMHCs that jumped up to help distribute communion, leaving the priests to go sit in their place in the pew.

HOW WRONG IS THIS?! Furthermore, utilising EMHCs to do sick visits is most of the time an abuse, because the priest “doesn’t have the time”…

Okay, to bring it back in to the topic… this is exactly the issue at hand with those “minor orders,” and opening them up to women. Now, I’m not sexist or anti-feminine (I don’t think men should be distributing communion when not necessary, either), but the role of the clergy is set apart from that of the lay person. We should respect that, and not strive for equality where there isn’t an equality. You wouldn’t expect a priest to exercise the role of a married person, would you? Of course not, because it is not proper to his role!

Okay, sorry for the rant…

In the circumstances specifically pertaining to the roles filled by minor orders, I don’t see a problem with lay people who aren’t being considered for ordination to step in, especially when there is a precedent already set, but I believe that the way it is written, it allows for those congregations who have kept the minor orders, such as the Oratorians, to continue in that tradition-- though the correct term is “installed,” not “ordained”. One is only ordained to the diaconate or priesthood, not to the minor orders. But this means that women would not be allowed the option in those instances, because the precedent has not been set in that way.

Pax!

 

[lydia_coffman]

At the risk of sounding ignorant, which I guess I am in this instance, if those who read at Mass are readers as opposed to lectors, then to what does the term lector refer? Also, is an acolyte different from an “altar server”?

Thanks

 

[DJgang]

At the risk of sounding ignorant, which I guess I am in this instance, if those who read at Mass are readers as opposed to lectors, then to what does the term lector refer? Also, is an acolyte different from an “altar server”?

Thanks

Lydia, you are not the only one… I’m learning as well.

When you look in the parish bullentin and it says “lectors”, I assume.

Totally OT and personal comment: I grew up Baptist, followed by becoming a member of couple of liberal denoms, then finally made it home. I’m a head covering convert and I just don’t feel right being too involved in ministries in the Church such as EHMC, again, my personal feelings. I have no problem seeing women reading and helping with Holy Communion.

 

[jediliz]

One of the parishes in my Diocese (Lincoln Nebraska) had a woman reader a few weeks ago. I had no problems with that. They don’t use EMHCs which is why I LOVE my diocese.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I am a little confused and as not to sound too stupid, I’m off to research… I thought women already did these things…

You are thinking of Lay positions of Reader and Altar Server.
Not the Instituted ministries of Lector and Acolyte.

Lay Readers and Altar Servers are COMMISSIONED by the parish priest for a number of years usually one to three years to serve in his parish.

Lectors and Acolytes are INSTITUTED into the Ministry after some training, for life by the Bishop for service in his diocese.

 

[DJgang]

You are thinking of Lay positions of Reader and Altar Server.
Not the Instituted ministries of Lector and Acolyte.

Yes, I’m learning. Hey, no question is stupid around here, huh? I hope not!

 

[Dicerning]

Yes, I’m learning. Hey, no question is stupid around here, huh? I hope not!

I have no problem with women as readers.

I am concerned about the confusion it would cause if they were instituted as lectors. I personally would like the institution of lector closed to anyone NOT on the track of Holy Orders.

It would solve the problem for those who are either pro or con on the issue.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I have no problem with women as readers.

I am concerned about the confusion it would cause if they were instituted as lectors. I personally would like the institution of lector closed to anyone NOT on the track of Holy Orders.

It would solve the problem for those who are either pro or con on the issue.

Personally I don’t see Rome approving this. It has too many effects reaching even into the Eastern Church.

 

[jfoges]

I’m confused about this. I thought I was a lector at my parish because I do readings at mass. I am on the “lector schedule”. However I never went through a formation, nor was I ever instituted or ordained by a bishop. Am I a lector? or am I just a reader? What is the difference?

 

[Dicerning]

I’m confused about this. I thought I was a lector at my parish because I do readings at mass. I am on the “lector schedule”. However I never went through a formation, nor was I ever instituted or ordained by a bishop. Am I a lector? or am I just a reader? What is the difference?

no you are not a lector you are a reader. In almost everywhere in the Latin Church seminarians are instituted as Lectors. Becoming a lector or acolyte is part of the process of becoming a priest. I am not sure if you are an EMHC. But often times they are called Eucharistic Ministers. Similar to calling readers “lectors” this is an improper term since there is an actual institution of Lector.

prior to the implementation of Vatican II…the priesthood was broken down into minor orders. As a seminarian advanced in years of preparation they were “ordained” into the minor orders. The minor orders were 1)Porter 2)Exorcist3)Lector4)Acolyte

after the minor orders priests were then “ordained” as sub deacons and then ordained as deacons (they still are as transistional deacons) then priests. Hence in the old Baltimore Catechism we were taught the 7 orders of the priesthood.

After Vatican II Porter and Exorcist were done away with and Lector and Acolyte were changed into instituted ministries instead of being called minor orders. Sub-deacon was done away with as well and the ministry of Lector and Acolyte was opened up to Lay persons who were not seeking the priesthood. (but it is only open to men) Most dioceses still only have instituted lectors and acolytes for men who are seeking holy orders. Some dioceses like LIncoln Nebraska…open this ministry up to any suitable man.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Personally I don’t see Rome approving this. It has too many effects reaching even into the Eastern Church.

If they do approve it, it will probably work like the communion in the hand indult, where the various episcopal conferences have to specifically request it.

 

[Phemie]

I’m confused about this. I thought I was a lector at my parish because I do readings at mass. I am on the “lector schedule”. However I never went through a formation, nor was I ever instituted or ordained by a bishop. Am I a lector? or am I just a reader? What is the difference?

Canon Law speaks of the uninstituted laity as fulfilling the function of an Instituted Lector. As far as I can tell, Canon Law differentiates between Lector and Instituted Lector. For clarity, I would only use the term Lector to mean ‘instituted’ and reader for everyone else but I don’t see that in Church documents.

It strikes me as ludicrous that bishops would ask for women to be instituted when they can’t even be bothered to institute those who are already eligible to be.

 

[Dicerning]

It strikes me as ludicrous that bishops would ask for women to be instituted when they can’t even be bothered to institute those who are already eligible to be.

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