Women dispensing the eucharist

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****ONE MORE TIME FOLKS
EUCHARIST MINISTER - Only the priest because only he can confect the eucharist
ORDINARY MINISTERS OF HOLY COMMUNION - Priest, Bishop and Deacon
EXTRAORDINARY MINISTERS OF HOLY COMMUNION - All other laypersons trained to assist with communion in extraordinary circumstances but not on a routine basis
:banghead:
 
bengal_fan
some one who wants for people to be able to answer their call without others getting in their way.
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I think your beef is with God not the Church. I agree it is unfair I wish I could give birth but I am a man. Seems unfair, but it is how God made us.

I will never know the joy of motherhood and a women will never know the joy of fatherhood. So, a women will never know the joy of being a priest just like a man will never know the joy of being a nun.

God Bless!
 
deogratias said:
****ONE MORE TIME FOLKS
EUCHARIST MINISTER - Only the priest because only he can confect the eucharist
ORDINARY MINISTERS OF HOLY COMMUNION - Priest, Bishop and Deacon
EXTRAORDINARY MINISTERS OF HOLY COMMUNION - All other laypersons trained to assist with communion in extraordinary circumstances but not on a routine basis
:banghead:
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and one more time folks:
According to GIRM, Canon Law, Redemptionis Sacramentum:
  1. Bishop, a priest or a deacon.
    If there is an “insufficient” number of these, then
  2. “duly instituted acolyte” (by the way, these are male only)
    If there is an “insufficient” number of these, then
  3. other lay people (deputed in accordance with can. 230)
" 1. The ordinary minister of holy communion is a Bishop, a priest or a deacon. "
" 2. The extraordinary minister of holy communion is an acolyte,
or another of Christ’s faithful deputed in accordance with can. 230"
and “In addition to the ordinary ministers there is the formally instituted acolyte, …”

see forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…2&postcount=107
 
I think we are saying the same thing here except you did not address the fact that the Eucharistic Minister is a preist who can confect the Eucharist (a Bishop is also a priest) and that I did not specify Acolyte as one of the EMHC’s I had asked for a clarification on this subject from the staff a while back in another thread and Michelle replied thusly,

"Here’s the scoop, according to Redemptionis Sacramentum:

“As has already been recalled, 'the only minister who can confect the Sacrament of the Eucharist in persona Christi is a validly ordained Priest.’ Hence the name ‘minister of the Eucharist’ belongs properly to the Priest alone.** Moreover, also by reason of their sacred Ordination, **the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion are the Bishop [who is a priest], the Priest and the Deacon [who is not a priest], **to whom it belongs therefore to administer Holy Communion to the lay members of Christ’s faithful during the celebration of Mass. In this way their ministerial office in the Church is fully and accurately brought to light, and the sign value of the Sacrament is made complete” (RS 154; emphasis and explication added).

In short: Ministers of the Eucharist are priests. Bishops are priests, so they can also be considered ministers of the Eucharist.

Deacons are not priests and so are not ministers of the Eucharist. As the title “minister of the Eucharist” is tied to the ability to “confect the sacrament,” a power reserved to priests, there are no extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist.

By virtue of their ordination, deacons are ordinary ministers of holy Communion (as are bishops and priests, in addition to being ministers of the Eucharist).

Laypeople who are so deputed for the service are extraordinary ministers of holy Communion."
 
Bengal,

Temporary is a bad word for this. The only normal ministers of Communion are the ordained (Priests, Deacons, Bishops, Acolytes). Extraordinary Ministers are to be used when needed to facilitate the distribution (ie, too many people, etc). In the US, they are overused. This is a valid ministry that is simply abused to speed up Sunday mass. I have no issue with women in that role and as far as I know, neither does the church
 
Raphinal

Acolytes are not Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion because they are not ordained. They too are Extraordinary Ministers of HC but it is preferred they be used rather than other laypersons to distribute communion.
 
My parish has, until just recently, been rather bad about using women as ‘extraordindary ministers’ - I refer to them as The League of Women Dealers, which makes my wife giggle.

The rules (see the GIRM on ‘extraordinary ministers’) are fairly clear: first use up your ordained ministers (priests and deacons) then use lay men, and only then begin to use women.
 
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RCEllis:
The rules (see the GIRM on ‘extraordinary ministers’) are fairly clear: first use up your ordained ministers (priests and deacons) then use lay men, and only then begin to use women.
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This is incorrect. There is a preference for installed acolytes, but after that there is no requirement or reason to prefer lay men over women.
 
There was a list in some document I read but can’t find it now that went like this. Extraordinary ministers as follows: Instituted Acolytes, Seminarians, Men Religious, Women Religious, Lay men, Lay women.
 
Catholic Eagle,
The worse we now get is a couple of verbal insults for defending our Faith but back then it was death.
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I disagree. The martyrdom rate of Christians, unfortunately, is quite high still today. American missions statistician David Barrett estimates that there are over 150,000 Christian martyrs each year.

Nevertheless, that’s irrelevant to the fact that non-priests have and can give the Eucharist to the faithful. If it was licit then, it can be licit now without betraying the *de fide *dogmas of Catholicism.

It is the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops in communion with him who decide disciplinary norms for the Church. Just like in the ancient times, the Church allows acolytes who are not priests. You seemed to imply to us that only priests should distribute Holy Communion as if it was Catholic dogma. It is not. Today’s Church, just like the ancient Church, allows for male acolytes. Additionally, today’s Church allows for male and female EMHCs, as needed, on a temporary basis. So, for parishes with only one or two priests, serving over 6000 members, like my parish, it is prudent to use EMHCs in the distribution of the Blessed Sacrament.
 
Catholic Eagle:
St.Tarcisius’s church used Latin, the women wore head coverings, the people faced the back of the priest,only a white linen corporal was used during Mass. St.Tarcisius didn’t give the Eucharist in church, during Mass but to the sick and dieing[prisons were unsanitary places back then].

Actually, St. Tarcisuis predated the Tridentine mass.

–Ann
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deogratias:
Raphinal

Acolytes are not Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion because they are not ordained. They too are Extraordinary Ministers of HC but it is preferred they be used rather than other laypersons to distribute communion.
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mea culpa. It was late and I got lazy. I knew what I meant. You are correct
 
That the Roman Pontiff has allowed women to be EMHCs is clear. You can disagree with him all you wish. Understand though, that we are the governed. The Roman Pontiff and the Bishops in communion with him are called by God to govern.

Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.”
 
Actually, St. Tarcisuis predated the Tridentine mass.
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I was going to point that out as well. It seems Catholic Eagle needs a refresher on the history of the liturgy.

Here’s a link:
1909 Catholic Encyclopedia - "Liturgy"
newadvent.org/cathen/09306a.htm

Here’s an excerpt:
… it must be said that an Apostolic Liturgy in the sense of an arrangement of prayers and ceremonies, like** our present ritual of the Mass, did not exist.** For some time the Eucharistic Service was in many details** fluid and variable.** **It was not all written down and read from fixed forms, but in part composed by the officiating bishop. As for ceremonies, at first they were not elaborated as now. All ceremonial evolves gradually out of certain obvious actions done at first with no idea of ritual, but simply because they had to he done for convenience. … Out of these obvious actions ceremony developed, just as our vestments developed out of the dress of the first Christians. It follows then of course that, when there was no fixed Liturgy at all, there could be no question of absolute uniformity among the different Churches. **

… the old Roman Rite [of the 4th century] is not exactly that now used [in 1909]. Our Roman Missal has received considerable additions from Gallican sources. **The original rite was simpler, more austere, had practically no ritual beyond the most necessary actions" **
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Now, I’m not advocating a present liturgy that has “no ritual beyond the most necessary actions,” but if Catholic Eagle is wanting to compare St. Tarcisius’ liturgy to that which we ought to have now, he doesn’t help his position.

St. Tarcisius’ liturgy more closely resembled the *current *Roman Missal, being “variable and fluid,” “in part composed by the … Bishop,” “not elaborate,” “no fixed liturgy” “difference of language,” “the insistence on one point in one place, the greater importance given to another feature elsewhere” etc. etc.
 
Catholic Eagle:
The bishop and priest are the only proper Eucharistic Ministers. My neighbor Ann,Mary,Joe,Johnny, or whoever is not an Eucharistic minister. Only the Bishop and Priest are eucharistic ministers. in Poland where eucharistic ministers are a rarity[available only in one diocese] seminaries are full and they have no priest shortages there.
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Are we forgetting Deaons?
 
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Patrick:
Are we forgetting Deaons?
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No; in that Deacons cannot confect the Eucharist.

Also, traditionally, Deacons were only allowed to distribute Communion under exceptional circumstances. They (and current lay ministers) are properly referred to as Extraordinary Ministers.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
There was a list in some document I read but can’t find it now that went like this. Extraordinary ministers as follows: Instituted Acolytes, Seminarians, Men Religious, Women Religious, Lay men, Lay women.
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This sounds like the old (i.e., 1917 canon law) order of preference for extraordinary ministers of baptism.
 
More priest envy!!

With all these ExtraOrdinary Ministers of the Eucharists, no wonder why vocations are down.
 
WARNING: Tangent

Not to nitpick…but aren’t vocations up a lot nationally???

I thought the big vocation crisis was in the 80’s and that it has been improving?

Or am I misinformed?

Thanks!
 
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Patrick:
Are we forgetting Deaons?
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The best thing to do where the priest sits and lets all the EXTRAORDINARY ministers of the Eucharist distribute Christ in the host, is: Don’t get on the Communion line of any LAY Eucharistic Minister. Or if on the line, move to the next line to the priest’s line.
I, my friends, and family have a policy, NO matter what the priests says, or to which Mass we attend: we do not take communion from any lay person, and even if there is a deacon, but there is a deacon and priest (two lines) we go to the priest, and receive communion only on the tongue, and from the consecrated hands of the priest. Don’t their hands get consecrated at their ordination? I KNOW this is the case. Some people can tell us otherwise, but this is an unchangeable practice for us, and we will continue to be reverent.
Per the women, and men giving communion, many think this is a job they can have in Church, and that they have a “right”, but never see this as a privilege. Actually, why not all help out in other ways in the church, like helping maintain the church buildings clean, or the statues clean, or the linens of the altar washed etc.? “He who is the least among you, is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven”. As per Communion, let the priest distribute. That’s one reason they went to theology school for 7-8 years, and were called to the sacrament of Holy Orders by the Bishop.
 
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