Women dispensing the eucharist

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I will say agan upfront that altar girls and overuse/abuse of EMHCs have harmed vocations.
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What you assert above is tantamount to asserting that what has been established as ecclesiastical discipline of the Church is “harmful.” This proposition has been condemend by Pope Pius VI…

Pope Pius VI, Auctorem Fidei, 78 (1794):
**

“… in so far as by the generality of the words it includes and submits to a prescribed examination even the discipline established and approved by the Church, as if the Church which is ruled by the Spirit of God could have established discipline which is not only useless and burdensome for Christian liberty to endure, but which is even dangerous and harmful and leading to superstition and materialism, - false, rash, scandalous, dangerous, offensive to pious ears, injurious to the Church and to the Spirit of God by whom it is guided, at least erroneous.” (Denzinger 1578; DS 2678)
**Reiterated again by **Pope Gregory XVI, Quo Graviora, 4-5 (1833): **
**

“… that there are many things in the discipline of the Church …** they say, should be changed, as they are harmful for the growth and prosperity of the Catholic religion** …

… these men were shamefully straying in their thoughts, they proposed to fall upon the errors condemned by the Church in proposition 78 of the constitution Auctorem fidei (published by Our predecessor, Pius VI on August 28, 1794).
**
 
Folks!
  1. Priests are Ordinary Ministers of the Eucharist
  2. Appointed laity are Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. Those who call themselves Ministers of the Eucharist use a title that way overstates their function. I would love an end put to its use.
  3. The appointed laity are expected to hold this position for a period of time e.g 3 years they are then expected to move away or take up some other ministry. They may come back to the ministry at some other time in the future. They were never expected or advised to hold it indefinitley.
  4. Extraordinary ministers who have been so for a long long time are not doing what is expected.
  5. Those who are honoured to hold this temporary position should be very very careful that their lives in whatever way, never bring even the slightest scandal, interiorly or exteriorly, to this most sublime mystery.
    It hurts me to the quick to see people reduce such a wonderful extraordinary privilage to a simple right or to an exercise in vanity or power. Worse still are those who concern themselves with every external worry; should it be men only or women only etc etc., and omit to focus with concentration on the heart. So many will tut tut but few will look inwards. That my friends is all God is concerned with when distributing His Sacred Presence to those who come to Him. When we focus on ourselves and our dispositions all will become clear. May God forgive us all.
    Those of us who have distributed the Blessed Sacrament will be very accountable for our actions.
    I am coming to the end of my 3 year appointment and it grieves me to move away seeeing that the Year of the Eucharist is apporaching. I believe however that if you stay too long then familiarity and routine is always a threat that may cause one to lose the sense of wonder and privilige we have.
    Over my three years I have slowed down considerably in distribution of the Sacred Hosts. Now, I adore and address each Host before I distribute it. I have come to recognise Christ substantially present in each and every Host I handle and it makes me very very nervous.
    This extraordinary ministry has not become easier; in fact it has become more difficult with preparation, involvement, care, prayer etc. My relationship with Christ has certainly developed in ways I could never have expected it to. bringing Communion to those who are dying is something I will never be able to put words on. being at their funeral and realising that I bronght Christ to them in their time of need again fiils me with intense emotion.
    Just a few thoughts I have friends.
    Forgive my wandering!!
    Blessings,
    Fergal
    Naas
    Ireland
 
Let me be clear … you can rightfully assert that disciplinary norms of the Church could be better, or ought to be changed. However, it is when you link your reasons for change to the assertion that it is currently “harmful” to the faithful that you advocate a proposition that has been CONDEMNED by the Catholic Church.

As I browse through many traditionalist arguments, they often shamefully violate this condemnation of the Church.

For example, according to Traditio.com, who call themselves “*An independent, balanced voice of traditional Catholicism” *…
traditio.com/tradlib/faq04.txt
In any case, the Novus Ordo service is never an
option. It is sacrilegious, unCatholic, and not even a Mass, let alone a valid one.
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It saddens me to see professed Catholics desparage the ecclesiastical disciplines of the Catholic Church in such a manner inconsist with the condemnation of Pope Pius VI.

This condemnation includes those that would assert that the lawful use of EMHCs and altar girls are “harmful” to the Catholic Church.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Let me be clear … you can rightfully assert that disciplinary norms of the Church could be better, or ought to be changed. However, it is when you link your reasons for change to the assertion that it is currently “harmful” to the faithful that you advocate a proposition that has been CONDEMNED by the Catholic Church.

As I browse through many traditionalist arguments, they often shamefully violate this condemnation of the Church.

For example, according to Traditio.com, who call themselves “*An independent, balanced voice of traditional Catholicism” *…
traditio.com/tradlib/faq04.txt
It saddens me to see professed Catholics desparage the ecclesiastical disciplines of the Catholic Church in such a manner inconsist with the condemnation of Pope Pius VI.

This condemnation includes those that would assert that the lawful use of EMHCs and altar girls are “harmful” to the Catholic Church.
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Traditio is not a reliable site, the person probally is not a priest at all, Fr. Moderator has not yet revealed who ordained him. He was probally ordained by an invalid “old catholic” sect.
 
If parishes keep on pushing more EMHCs and not more priests, there will obviously be a shortage of priests. If parishes like the status quo, they should not be complaining the lack of priests or vocations.
 
Iohannes,
Traditio is not a reliable site
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I should hope not. However, I’ve conversed with many who call themselves traditionalist who link to that web page.
If parishes keep on pushing more EMHCs and not more priests, there will obviously be a shortage of priests. If parishes like the status quo, they should not be complaining the lack of priests or vocations.
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Certainly. However, in all my years in many parishes all over the world, I’ve NEVER come across a parish pushing for more EMHCs instead of priests. I suggest you present a false dichotomy that doesn’t exist in reality.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Iohannes,
I should hope not. However, I’ve conversed with many who call themselves traditionalist who link to that web page.

Certainly. However, in all my years in many parishes all over the world, I’ve NEVER come across a parish pushing for more EMHCs instead of priests. I suggest you present a false dichotomy that doesn’t exist in reality.
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I have seen parishes that push EMHC’s and discourage vocations to the priesthood.

How about having female altar boys and and army of EMHCs while pushing for more EMHCs? I have seen that.They may not be actively discouraging vocations, but they are doing it passively whether the parishes know it or not.
 
Iohannes,

Do you contend that the Body of Christ given by the female EMHC in the above picture is NOT the real Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ?
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Iohannes,

Do you contend that the Body of Christ given by the female EMHC in the above picture is NOT the real Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ?
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Of course it is the REAL Presence. That is not the point of the picture. Read the last line again. Look at the picture and tell me what the problem is or the potential problem of it. What does it look like?

LEX ORANDI LEX CREDENDI.
 
Catholic Eagle:
The bishop and priest are the only proper Eucharistic Ministers. My neighbor Ann,Mary,Joe,Johnny, or whoever is not an Eucharistic minister. Only the Bishop and Priest are eucharistic ministers. in Poland where eucharistic ministers are a rarity[available only in one diocese] seminaries are full and they have no priest shortages there.
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Don’t be too quick in your pronouncements. Deacons are ordinary ministers of communion and Canon law specifically calls for installed acolytes to assist if required.

Peace and God Bless
 
I don’t have a problem with women serving as EMHC’s. For the people that jump line into the priest line-Would you refuse communion from Mary? :confused:
 
Last week while visiting another parish, the female EMHC’s at mass carried the previously reserved eucharist in glass bowls in front and above their heads while in procession from the back of the church, all the while the soft rock band(drum kit, electric bass, piano and guitar) that provides the music played in the background.

All I could think was that it looked like a cheesey 1950-60’s movie where the vestial virgins were bringing forward gifts to the pagan gods. I almost cried not just because of the numerous abuses being done but by the look of sincere particpation that these women had on their faces. They actually believed that their were contributing to the mass by their innovations.

Peace and God Bless
 
For what its worth, some TLM communities have Permanent Deacons dispense the Eucharist and participate in other liturgical roles that Deacons function in according to the use of the 62 missal.
 
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Michael:
I don’t have a problem with women serving as EMHC’s. For the people that jump line into the priest line-Would you refuse communion from Mary? :confused:
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Why would you even think that Mary would be an EMHC.

Quite frankly it seems that so many people have lost sight of their sexual gender and ignore the designedness of their being.

The EMHC is an alternative and temporary bridegroom deputed by the bishop because the priest, the ultimate other for Christ, is temporarily unavailable. Only the most dismissive would say that a female should be the stand in for a bridegroom. Because canon law doesn’t say no that doesn’t mean its okay.

Many look forward to the day when the women and men of our culture start taking their cues about masculinity and feminity from the unchangeable and authentic church teaching and not from sister gay, father wimpy or bishop cave in. We should approach liturgical roles with the reflection of there deeper spiritual meaning.

When was the last time you saw a mass at the Vatican with altar girls and female EMHC’s ?
 
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Michael:
I don’t have a problem with women serving as EMHC’s. For the people that jump line into the priest line-Would you refuse communion from Mary? :confused:
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Why would Our Blessed Mother want to be a EMHC??

How is women as EMHC Marian?
 
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Iohannes:
If parishes keep on pushing more EMHCs and not more priests, there will obviously be a shortage of priests. If parishes like the status quo, they should not be complaining the lack of priests or vocations.
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So, do you contend that one of the causes of the lack of vocations is the preponderance of EMHC’s?

If so, can you please explain how exactly the over use of EMHC’s is causing a lack of vocations?

I will agree that EMHC’s are frequently overused. However, if legitimately used EMHC’s can be either male or female.

Perhaps we should discuss the how’s and why’s of this problem intead of just relating stories along the lines of “once I saw this…” or “a parish by me does such and such…” We all agree that there are abuses out there. Simply relaying anecdotes and photos of these occurences does little to add to the conversation.

At least…that’s my opinion.
 
NorthernBrother:
Why would you even think that Mary would be an EMHC.
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well, (and not that i ascribe to this per se but the argument could go…) she was the first one to bring the body of Christ to the world and therefore would be the first emhc (she probably wasn’t “extraordinary” either as she is the crown of God’s creation)
 
Iohannes,
Of course it is the REAL Presence. … Look at the picture … What does it look like?
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Looks like a Christian about to receive the Sanctifying Grace of Christ’s Body and Blood. Looks great to me!
 
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Deacon2006:
Don’t be too quick in your pronouncements. Deacons are ordinary ministers of communion and Canon law specifically calls for installed acolytes to assist if required.

Peace and God Bless
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Several people have already misread, misquoted, and incorrectly “corrected” Catholic Eagle for saying
The bishop and priest are the only proper Eucharistic Ministers. My neighbor Ann,Mary,Joe,Johnny, or whoever is not an Eucharistic minister. Only the Bishop and Priest are eucharistic ministers.
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A deacon is not a Eucharistic Minister, as he cannot confect the Eucharist. A deacon is an ordinary minister of Holy Communion, as is every ordained priest. But a priest is still more. A priest truly is a Eucharistic minister, while a deacon truly is not.
Pax Christi. <><
 
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