Women getting married, having kids, then becoming depressed?

[1Lord1Faith]

I thought we were being honest and vulnerable on this thread.

You know you’re on the internet, right?

 

[PetraG]

Postpartum depression is a medical condition. As the National Institute on Mental Health puts it: After childbirth, the levels of hormones (estrogen and progesterone) in a woman’s body quickly drop. This leads to chemical changes in her brain that may trigger mood swings. In addition, many mothers are unable to get the rest they need to fully recover from giving birth. Constant sleep deprivation can lead to physical discomfort and exhaustion, which can contribute to the symptoms of postpartum depression. NIMH » Perinatal Depression

So, that’s one reason that mothers become depressed: that is, the combination of the physical demands on the body of having children and the physical and emotional demands of childcare can make maintaining maternal mental health more difficult. Women who stay at home with their children do not have the social network of other stay-at-home mothers that they once had, either. They expect themselves to dedicate all their time and attention to childrearing, which is not what traditional women expected themselves to do.

On top of that, I would say that motherhood is increasingly both something that is not valued and yet also something that is almost impossible to “get right” because of the expectations of what an emotional, psychological, social, academic and physical paragon the child of “good parents” is supposed to be. There was a time when it was OK for average people with average problems to have average children with average problems. People thought of survival as a “win”; consistent high levels of contentment and achievement weren’t considered a reasonable goal, let alone a typical one.

In other words, contemporary motherhood gives a lot more opportunities for failure than for success. The successes are harder to achieve–some would even say impossible–and yet because so many women are in the workforce and cannot be at home with their children, there is a constant reassurance that being at home with children isn’t important, that a low-paid child care worker can give a child what he or she needs just as well or even better. At adult gatherings, self-identification is with “what you do,” meaning “what you do outside the home” or “what you accomplish.”

Unfortunately, depression and anxiety disorders are common in the general population, as well. It is estimated that about 18% of adults and as many as 25% of children suffer from anxiety disorders and that 20-25% of adults will suffer an episode of major depression at some time during their lifetimes. For a variety of reasons, one of which is the family expectations placed on women as family caretakers for their children and their parents, women are twice as likely as men to have major clinical depression. In other words, having children and going to work won’t immunize a woman from depression, either.

 

[PetraG]

I think there’s two issues. One is the breakdown of extended family and community life. This can leave wives and mothers isolated, which they never were before. Part of this is because so many mothers work now, there is less of a community of neighborhood mothers, aunts, and grandparents nearby to support one another

The second issue is the general societal guilt that if a woman is not “having it all” it’s a bad thing.

I do think our unrealistic expectations is one reason that women suffer depression at rates so much higher than men. Having said that, this trend became apparent as early as the 1940s and 1950s. Betty Friedan did not invent the unhappiness many women were feeling; she just totally misdiagnosed it. As the play Death of a Salesman shows, both men and women are subjected to unrealistic expectations of what it means to “succeed” in life. It could be argued that the expectations are more impossible for women than for men, but I don’t think it is fair to say that men are entirely free of the unrealistic expectations of what a common person ought to achieve in life in order to feel they aren’t a “failure.” In the United States, it is all about external markers of achievement. Since the success of one implies the failures of others in a society marked by competition and since the competition essentially lasts a lifetime, it isn’t too surprising that we have a lot of anxiety and depression in this country.

 

[melonhead]

Great points all around here. It seems like there’s several reasons for this depression, which can vary from person to person.

I think there’s two issues. One is the breakdown of extended family and community life. This can leave wives and mothers isolated, which they never were before. Part of this is because so many mothers work now, there is less of a community of neighborhood mothers, aunts, and grandparents nearby to support one another

The second issue is the general societal guilt that if a woman is not “having it all” it’s a bad thing.

Personally speaking, this was a huge part of the issue for my wife. We moved shortly after we got married, to an area without a lot of Catholic families. Trying to live a faithful Catholic life in a largely secular society saturated by the idea of 1.26 kids, career, etc, with no one to relate to can be difficult. Getting out to hang with other like-minded moms was a true blessing for her.

 

[PetraG]

I would hope that most SAHP’s do not feel this way. They are in fact irreplaceable. One cannot pay someone else to love their own family.

But it’s hubby’s job that is replaceable. My spouse complains that their job is unfulfilling, among other things.

For those people with a material attitude towards life…a job with status, recognition and good pay may be their primary goal. For Christians, the family takes priority.

The whole materialist, ‘valuable citizen’ attitude is reminiscent of the atheistic communism of the USSR. I’m not surprised that it was brought to the US during the late 60’s. But it is surprising to me to see people, especially here on a Catholic website, repeat the lamentable talking points of the ‘sad SAHM’ that was so prevalent in the 70’ and 80’s. Back then I saw that attitude destroy families because moms seemingly could not find self worth inside the home. When I see the same talking points repeated today it upsets me.

I think our grandparents (or for some of us here, great grandparents or even farther back) were happier partly because they were free of the idea that their daily work ought to be “fulfilling.” Work was work, it was hard, and those who did it faithfully in spite of not particularly loving it were considered worthy of feeling pride at being productive citizens and reliable providers of what their children and others needed. They didn’t ask the question, “is this all there is?” because they knew that getting food on the table and and providing a secure home for themselves and their familes was indeed an accomplishment to be grateful for. They could surround themselves with family and friends and see that this–these people who love each other, in spite of their faults–is why it was all worthwhile. (People did spend more time with their family and friends, as well, because there was no TV or radio, let alone an internet.)

 

[blackforest]

Yes, we have hobbies. But absolutely no one on the planet can prepare you for life with a baby, toddler, preschooler, and who knows how many other kids. And if you homeschool, forget it. By the end of the day, I’m happy to be able just to breathe and would fall asleep drooling on top of any “hobby.” Also, unless you give up horseback riding or rock climbing, a good many hobbies require the grueling reality of finding and paying for daytime childcare.

A final thought: Hobbies are lovely. But they’re not a cure for depression.

This is something that a woman puts on herself.

I respectfully disagree. The degradation of stay-at-home mothers is very much a cultural phenomenon. A downside of consumerist capitalism, which for many is too taboo to mention, is that we ascribe worth to people based on professional titles, money, and paychecks. In the U.S., especially, we liberally ask the question that considered rude elsewhere in the world: “What do you do?”

I should add that moms who work outside the home face their own stigma. I can’t find the study, but I once read that stay-at-home moms are more prone to depression, and moms with jobs outside the home are more prone to anxiety. As the saying goes, raise your family like you don’t have a job, and work like you don’t have a family.

Modern life makes our womanly tasks so simple that anyone can & does do those things as well or better than your average SAHM. And yet they’re so tedious that no one WANTS to do them at all.

It’s a weird paradox. I think modern life has made it “easier.” But as expectations have increased, it’s ironically made it harder, too. As just one example, SAHMs in my grandmother’s generation weren’t expected to be so involved at their children’s schools or after-school lives. Children could play unsupervised in the streets without arousing suspicion. These subtle factors freed up time to cook a whole-foods dinner.

Betty Friedan did not invent the unhappiness many women were feeling; she just totally misdiagnosed it.

Friedan poignantly described what a lot of us women feel. At the same time, she missed the mark a bit. What she depicted - the depressed housewife looking up and saying, “Is this is?” - also applies to a lot of people who go to work all day at vapid and soul-less jobs. I’ve had that same feeling at the workplace water cooler that I get while on my knees scrubbing a toilet.

 

[JHFamily]

I’d later on found out from my dear hubby, who’d worked so hard to support us all, that the women at his work had let it be known that I didn’t measure up with them as a lowly SAHM - & he stood up for me!

This is exactly what my husband experiences, as well, from both men and women. He says SAHM are considered leeches – nonproductive members of society that are mooching off their husbands so they don’t have to work. One lady in the office, when trying to decide whether to come back after her delivery, was put under tremendous pressure to come back.

Radio stations regularly have news items that addresses “how we can get more women out of the home into the workforce”. It’s a communist manipulative that we’ve fallen for hook, line and sinker.

Everything in society screams that the SAHM is dead weight. No wonder women feel that way. Not to mention, that we are a very busy sort of people, and when a woman no longer has anything busy to do outside the home, she can just simply feel bored. I know I did in the early years.

Work was work, it was hard, and those who did it faithfully in spite of not particularly loving it were considered worthy of feeling pride at being productive citizens and reliable providers of what their children and others needed. They didn’t ask the question, “is this all there is?” because they knew that getting food on the table and and providing a secure home for themselves and their familes was indeed an accomplishment to be grateful for. They could surround themselves with family and friends and see that this–these people who love each other, in spite of their faults–is why it was all worthwhile.

This, too, is absolutely true. It was also a time when everyone minded his own business. Those days are long gone.

Just a funny little anecdote to the husband’s work colleagues. Day after day, they bring processed, often frozen, foods for lunch or order lunch because, with two spouses working, who has time to cook supper and prepare lunch for the next day? And day after day, they ask my husband what he brought in his “seven course dinner”.

I think people really know life is better with the SAHM, but it is not politically expedient to say so anymore.

 

[on_the_hill]

I think social media makes the problem worse.

100% agree. Social media frequently makes every problem worse.

And I agree with the post about people trying to find fulfillment in their work. I don’t know for sure, but I sense that aligning personal identity with one’s job is uniquely American. We’d probably be happier if we’d expect our jobs to provide a paycheck and not much else.

But I also think there’s the problem of depression–and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of women who feel worthless, like “leeches,” “just a mom,” “trapped,” would feel depressed if they were in the full time workforce.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

This is something that a woman puts on herself.

It’s not that I’m downplaying the cultural influences. I know that they are overwhelming. Lots of things happen that make a SAHM question everything. Even so, the same doubts happen to mothers who work outside the home. But my point is that even though this may be something that is initially put onto a SAHM by the culture, it’s ultimately up to the SAHM whether or not they leave that cultural oppression on them or they throw it off. I’m not saying it doesn’t take strength to throw it off. But staying under it is a choice not to empower oneself. Maybe you still disagree. That’s fine.

I’ve had that same feeling at the workplace water cooler that I get while on my knees scrubbing a toilet.

It really doesn’t matter what we are doing in life. Fulfillment from a career for one person is the same fulfillment from being a SAHM for another person. Whether at work or at home, either can be seen as unfulfilling, not valuable, etc just based on the attitude of the individual and what they want out of life. Being a SAHM isn’t going to be fulfilling for everyone. But people do have a say in the attitude that they bring to wherever it is that they end up.

 

[jzea1992]

You say for Christians the family takes priority. From what I see around me most of the Catholic Christians are the worst. Christian women go to the big prestigious catholic universities and are very hard wired career-minded women just as much as any other denomination. In Catholic groups they always ask “what do you do” as well. So, I disagree that for Christians the family takes priority. I think nowadays in the younger generations everyone regardless of religion “wants to have it all”.

 

[Sarcelle]

Most of the stay at home moms I know who told me they feel worthless have had husbands who have told them that what they, the wife did, was worthless. I can see the condescending attitude displayed by the husband towards the wife.

I know it’s not a representative sample but women whose husbands do not value what they do in homemaking and chid rearing are more likely to be depressed.

It’s the being taken for granted like one of the household appliances that can lead to this.

 

[Sarcelle]

I’ve heard of women who’d turned down family for a career - who reached a certain age, looked back, & just started bawling - & money, a career, & status - do not fulfill - much as the culture may tell us otherwise.

I was never under the illusion that a career would fulfill me.

As for turning down family, some of us have never had the opportunity to get married.

I never married but I have no regrets. It was just the way life turned out.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

In Catholic groups they always ask “what do you do” as well.

The extended family that I was raised in talked like that, lots of questions. I’ve always found that particular kind of icebreaker to be very off putting. I’ve tended to avoid people who are like that all my life, and never really realized it until I married into a family that doesn’t talk like that.

You say for Christians the family takes priority.

I’m sorry. I should have said that Christians should have the family take priority.

 

[Sarcelle]

So should women not go to university and focus on finding a husband?

Is it a requirement to get married?

 

[Pattylt]

Maybe things are different now, but when I went back to work after being a SAHM for 12 years, almost every woman I talked to…which was quite a few…envied me for being able to do so! I think the grass looks greener on either side.

I think we women need to be more vocal that staying at home is our choice, it’s extremely valuable and push back hard on anyone that says otherwise. And women who work…especially those that must…need to be vocal that SAHMs is a goal that every woman should be able to choose. Many countries have much more generous policies of leave after childbirth…the US is embarrassing!

 

[PetraG]

I think people really know life is better with the SAHM, but it is not politically expedient to say so anymore.

I asked some newly-married relatives of mine how life was treating them. Both had full-time-plus jobs. They said, “Married life is great, but we could really use a wife!!”

But I also think there’s the problem of depression–and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of women who feel worthless, like “leeches,” “just a mom,” “trapped,” would feel depressed if they were in the full time workforce.

There is good reason to believe that, as depression is a physical ailment, after all. Having said that, my experience says that some women are happier working outside the home and some are happier when they aren’t. Milage varies, each family ought to be able to work out what works best for them, and that ought to be OK.

But my point is that even though this may be something that is initially put onto a SAHM by the culture, it’s ultimately up to the SAHM whether or not they leave that cultural oppression on them or they throw it off. I’m not saying it doesn’t take strength to throw it off. But staying under it is a choice not to empower oneself. Maybe you still disagree. That’s fine.

I’m a stay-at-home mom with a PhD. You’re right, but I would make this addition: it makes a lot of difference how your husband feels. If he values having you at home, that is what matters. If he resents it, I don’t know how a mother throws that off. That’s a bit much to ask.

Christian women go to the big prestigious catholic universities and are very hard wired career-minded women just as much as any other denomination.

We might want to ask ourselves why Catholic high schools are usually “college prep.” What? People in the trades don’t benefit from having gone to a Catholic high school?

Most of the stay at home moms I know who told me they feel worthless have had husbands who have told them that what they, the wife did, was worthless. I can see the condescending attitude displayed by the husband towards the wife…

It’s the being taken for granted like one of the household appliances that can lead to this.

Sometimes men who go off to work also feel they’re treated as if their only value to the family is providing the paycheck, too. The wife and children have their life going and just do what they’re doing the same whether Dad can make it or not. Sometimes, that can’t be helped, but it makes a difference if Dad is told that he is missed when he is gone and that his hard work is appreciated. (Being careful with what he earns is one way to do that, too.)

Divorces can come from a mutual feeling of underappreciation or contempt.

 

[PetraG]

There are trade offs to becoming full-time moms & wives: it is a sacrifice, & many people coming from broken homes can struggle with that reality perhaps never having had it modeled for them in life. I’ve heard of women who’d turned down family for a career - who reached a certain age, looked back, & just started bawling - & money, a career, & status - do not fulfill - much as the culture may tell us otherwise.

If not marrying frees someone to devote herself fully to the Lord, on the other hand, that can work extremely well for her. As St. Paul pointed out, she works for the Gospel but is spared certain anxieties.

I would hope that most SAHP’s do not feel this way. They are in fact irreplaceable. One cannot pay someone else to love their own family.

What worked for us is this attitude: What he does is what we do. What she does is what we do. You do have to look at it all as a shared life with shared goals and shared accomplishments.

 

[Sarcelle]

In Catholic groups they always ask “what do you do” as well.

The Catholic group I know, especially the women’s groups, do not ask that.

They assume all women are stay at home moms and schedule their activities at a time when I’m working.

 

[PetraG]

So should women not go to university and focus on finding a husband?

Is it a requirement to get married?

The double-bind is that the woman who doesn’t marry a college-educated man is less likely to be able to afford to stay home with their children, particularly if they want to send their children to K-12 Catholic schools.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

it makes a lot of difference how your husband feels. If he values having you at home, that is what matters. If he resents it, I don’t know how a mother throws that off. That’s a bit much to ask.

Yeah that’s not something that can just be thrown off.

Too many families feel that they must have a two income source. Looking at the costs of living now in the US, their probably not wrong.