Women in the Priesthood

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Th0t said:
Amen.

And as Peter Kreeft put it…

“The Church has spoken magisterially, officially, publicly, clearly, and authoritatively on this issue of women ordination. What more do you want?”
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What more do you want? Blind obedience to a teaching rejected by many Catholic theologians and laypeople as a contradiction of the role of women in the early Church?
 
tonyrey said:
What more do you want? Blind obedience to a teaching rejected by many Catholic theologians and laypeople as a contradiction of the role of women in the early Church?
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The church is not a democracy. It never was. It never will be.

Why should the Church abandon its historical teachings to satisfy a few radical theologians and lay people?

Why should the Church’s teachings change to meet the wants of society?
 
tonyrey said:
What more do you want? Blind obedience to a teaching rejected by many Catholic theologians and laypeople as a contradiction of the role of women in the early Church?
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I would say this rejection by these “Theologians” could fall under various categories. They are at least being incredulous.
2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; *schism *is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
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scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2089.htm
2284 *Scandal *is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense
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.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2284.htm
 
Here Here Mary Gail!
Well done.
Tonyrey -it’s not gonna happen and there is absolutely NO historical precedence for it in the early church.
 
CarlaOLS said:
Here Here Mary Gail!
Well done.
Tonyrey -it’s not gonna happen and there is absolutely NO historical precedence for it in the early church.
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There have been a whole bunch of things that they said would not happen, but did. Let me give you a few examples:
Things they said would not happen:
Pope kisses the Koran
Marriage annulment granted because your husband spends too much time in the gym.
Pope on stage dancing to rock music with teenagers.
Women giving out Holy Communion in Church without headcovering
People rolling around, speaking incoherently and twisting on the floor in a frenzy during a charismatic Mass?
etc.
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
I would say this rejection by these “Theologians” could fall under various categories. They are at least being incredulous.
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2089.htm
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2284.htm
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Being a good Catholic does not entail being credulous, i.e. gullible. Nor does it entail blind obedience but using our God-given power of reason to discern what is right and just in the light of the history and teaching of the Church which teaches that our ultimate authority is our conscience…
 
Charlemagne_II said:
I think the reluctance of the Church from the first to ordain female priests could have a philosophical justification (in addition to the justifications mentioned in earlier posts) because a male priesthood would be more likely to affirm traditional values than would a female priesthood. If you don’t agree, imagine what the world would be like if it was mostly ruled by women (think Nancy Pelosi). If you still don’t agree, imagine what most families would be like if women were the head of the household. Children who now grow up in such homes are for the most part more likely to have less discipline in their lives and less fear of violating social norms, never mind the commandments. In the prisons I have visited, few prisoners were raised to manhood by their father, but rather by their mother.

This is not a put-down of mothers. In many ways mothers rule our hearts a good deal more than our fathers, and that is I think their most powerful role to play. But men also have a powerful role to play, and I think that is best played out in the fathers of the family and the parish “Fathers” who are stand-ins for God the Father and Jesus Christ.
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you have to be a man . If not we are in a heep of trouble.
 
tonyrey said:
foundthelight;5249774:
Not a democracy but not an autocracy! Have you ever heard of the consensus fidelium
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?

I have not.

But I presume you mean sensus fidelium (sometimes: sensus fidei). Which is not, as you seem to wish, some kind of democratic process, but rather a property of the whole of the faithful, united with the magisterium. As, for instance, laid out in CCC #92 (quoting Lumen Gentium):
92 “The whole body of the faithful. . . cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of faith (sensus fidei) on the part of the whole people, when, from the bishops to the last of the faithful, they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals.”

Of course, you have not answered my previous posts – I have no expectation that you will answer, or even read, this one.
tee
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There was a time when they would not even let girls be helpers at the Mass but now we have alter girls so there is hope and there are female Decons at least at our Church so KEEP THE FAITH.

God Bless us all. 👍
 
tee_eff_em said:
tonyrey;5251741:
But I presume you mean sensus fidelium
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(sometimes: sensus fidei). Which is not, as you seem to wish, some kind of democratic process, but rather a property of the whole of the faithful, united with the magisterium. As, for instance, laid out in CCC #92 (quoting Lumen Gentium):92 "The whole body of the faithful. . . cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of faith (sensus fidei) on the part of the whole people, when, from the bishops to the last of the faithful, they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals."Of course, you have not answered my previous posts – I have no expectation that you will answer, or even read, this one.tee

The third section of Newman’s article is the longest. He begins it by showing the various ways in which the consent of the faithful is to be regarded: “1. as a testimony of the fact of the apostolical dogma; 2. as a sort of instinct, or fronhma, deep in the bosom of the mystical body of Christ; 3. as a direction of the Holy Ghost; 4. as an answer to its prayer; 5. as a jealousy of error, which it at once feels as a scandal”.
Code: 
     Newman's first book had been The *Arians of the Fourth Century*.He turns now to one of the great lessons he had learned in his         researches for that book, "that in that time of immense confusion         the divine dogma of our Lord's divinity was proclaimed, enforced,         maintained, and (humanly speaking) preserved, far more by the *Ecclesia         docta *than by the *Ecclesia docens*,that the body of         the episcopate was unfaithful to its commission, while the body of the         laity was faithful to its baptism..." (12) Most of this section of         Newman's article consists of quotations from ancient authorities to show         that the Nicene dogma was maintained during the greater part of the         fourth century "**1. not by the unswerving firmness of the Holy See,         Councils, or bishops, but 2. by the *consensus fidelium***".
ewtn.com/library/Theology/NEWMNLAY.HTM
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omg said:
There was a time when they would not even let girls be helpers at the Mass but now we have altar girls so there is hope and there are female Deacons at least at our Church so KEEP THE FAITH. God Bless us all. 👍
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This is a return to the equality of women in the Apostolic Church but conservative Catholics are horrified!
 
tonyrey said:
This is a return to the equality of women in the Apostolic Church but conservative Catholics are horrified!
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No, not conservative Catholics.

Catholics. That is something you fail to grasp.

Eddie Mac
 
omg said:
There was a time when they would not even let girls be helpers at the Mass but now we have alter girls so there is hope and there are female Decons at least at our Church so KEEP THE FAITH.

God Bless us all. 👍
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Apples and oranges Tonrey.

Aside from the fact that altar girls were allowed under pressure by certain progressives and that those same progressives falsely claimed that it had become the norm (they did the same thing with Communion in the hand decades ago 😦 ), when in reality the overwhelming majority of churches in US had no such altar girls,- the fact that a girl assists the priest in serving the Mass HAS NOTHING to do with a male priesthood established by Jesus Christ.

AND there are no such things as female deacons - maybe your church is in schism :eek:- but even if Holy Mother Church decides to allow female deacons again it would have NOTHING to do with the male priesthood that Jesus Christ instituted Himself.

I too suggest you KEEP the FAITH, and I sincerely pray you will humbly follow the one true Faith professing all and only what She professes to be True.👍

Come Holy Spirit fill the hearts of Your faithful…OH God Who does instruct the hearts of the faithful by the light of the Holy Spirit, grant us by that same Spirit, a love and relish of what is right and just and a constant enjoyment of His comforts. AMEN

Only the Holy Spirit can grant you KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING and WISDOM to accept all He teaches without stain of error through His Vicar, the Pope and the Church, as well as COUNSEL to use His gifts rightly.

Mother Spouse of the Holy Spirit, Pray for Us!
God bless you.
Peace
 
tonyrey said:
This is a return to the equality of women in the Apostolic Church but conservative Catholics are horrified!
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I use to think like that being I am from the Old School Catholic’s where you never questioned anything you just had to believe it because the nun’s and the Priest said it was so , so it was. But not that I am older and read and research and talk with other Catholics from my era we see where we had no opionions in the Church and we were like sheep just following because that was just what you did. If we missed Mass on Sunday or did not go to confession on Sunday boy we lived in BIG TIME FEAR that if we died during the week we would go to HELLI remember going to confession as a kid and not really knowing what to say and so I would make up stuff just because I was scared just being there and that was the way they had us to think, everything we did was a sin. And boy when we were in the Middle School it was all about SEX it was wrong and if we ever got married it was only to have children not for pleasure so when I got married I thought I have to be a good Catholic not enjoye this and got to have lots of kids.
But with time reading and talking with other Catholics from my age group I am not the same ignorant kid from the past . My beliefts have changed so much I am still a Catholic and a practicing one but I have changed for the good on my views some of the teachings and I see so much change in the priest and all for the good they are more understanding and more open minded but I can say my sisters and I lived thur it but I am glade to see NEEDLES TO SAY ALL THE NUNS THAT TOUGHT US TWO OF THEM ARE GAY(NOT SHOCKING TO ME NOW THAT I LOOK BACK AT THINGS AND 3 ARE MARRIED WITH CHILDREN ) 😊 …GOD BLESS YOU ALL;)
 
tonyrey said:
Many parishes in Europe are already without priests.

I do not believe that, nor have I stated or implied anything of the kind…
It is even sillier to suggest that I have blamed the decline in the priesthood on not ordaining women!!!
Then you are sadly mistaken. Many parishes in Europe are already without priests…
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Sadly many more parishes in Europe are already without parishioners–and without parishioners…Hence the great European church museum.
 
omg said:
There was a time when they would not even let girls be helpers at the Mass but now we have alter girls so there is hope and there are female Decons at least at our Church so KEEP THE FAITH.

God Bless us all. 👍
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You are telling a lie about being catholic or that there are female Deacons in your Church. 😦
 
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