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Exporter
Guest
Iamin the 70 to 75 age group, and I believe that the two who voted for the ordination of women are either telling a lie or they are very poorly catechised.
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Hieronymus
Guest
Tony B.:
there are women in protestant churches. so what…? Is there some benefices from it?
By the way it seems that if in so great period of time as 2000 years, there was no women priests why it is necessary to accept it for that small piece of time that we have left till Apocalypsis. I beleive it is closer to us than begining of christianity.
I think that iti is not a great idea to develop this topic.
there are women in protestant churches. so what…? Is there some benefices from it?
By the way it seems that if in so great period of time as 2000 years, there was no women priests why it is necessary to accept it for that small piece of time that we have left till Apocalypsis. I beleive it is closer to us than begining of christianity.
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mercygate
Guest
OK. I lied about my age to answer the poll. I’m in the 50+ group – the generation that started all the trouble. And NO, the ontology does not support women in priesthood. Yech! Has anybody read THEOLOGY OF THE BODY?
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Joan_M
Guest
I am in the 50+ group, and, as far as I am concerned, those women who whine about the Church not allowing them to be ordained need a smack. A hard smack!
They always carry on about the times in which Jesus lived, and how it would not have been accepted then, yadda, yadda, yadda.
There were pagan priestesses in those days, so it would not have been that much of an innovation.
Regardless - Jesus chose to ordain men, and men only. After all, only men can actually act in persona Christi. Priests are the spouse of the Church, and we, the laity - men and women - are the spouse of Christ.
There was a time when I thought I knew better than the Pope and thought that there was no reason why we women could not be priests. No more. Thanks be to God!
They always carry on about the times in which Jesus lived, and how it would not have been accepted then, yadda, yadda, yadda.
There were pagan priestesses in those days, so it would not have been that much of an innovation.
Regardless - Jesus chose to ordain men, and men only. After all, only men can actually act in persona Christi. Priests are the spouse of the Church, and we, the laity - men and women - are the spouse of Christ.
There was a time when I thought I knew better than the Pope and thought that there was no reason why we women could not be priests. No more. Thanks be to God!
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Cairisti
Guest
I voted no.
After all, they would be Priestesses wouldn’t they? More fuel for the bashers of the Catholic faith who say we’re a bunch of pagans.:bigyikes:
(Of course what does that say about certain Protestant groups that do have female priests? Hmmm? )
After all, they would be Priestesses wouldn’t they? More fuel for the bashers of the Catholic faith who say we’re a bunch of pagans.:bigyikes:
(Of course what does that say about certain Protestant groups that do have female priests? Hmmm? )
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The_Black_Knight
Guest
Joan M:
Tony B.:
Tony B.:
Yes, it’s very “interesting”…
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icequeen
Guest
I voted no. It is about power to the women who want to be ordained as ‘priestesses.’ If God wanted to have women ordained, then Jesus would have given St. Mary Magdelene the same status as the twelve male Apostles. The women were there to support the men in the ministry of Jesus, not to compete for ‘power’.
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Affirmed
Guest
Why in the world would anyone with half a brain think it’s okay to admit a women to a position which for thousands of years has held the title “Father”? Women cannot be priests. Will not be priests. And any woman who thinks she can be should just jump ship now and be “ordained” in a Protestant sect. She’ll still be a layperson either way.
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Tony_B
Guest
I’ll agree with ICEQUEEN in a previous post.
Code:
Jesus Christ brought about a different way to live. He provided the teachings for change in society at the time. If it had been his desire or will to have women priests then there would have been women at the last supper and women now as priests.
Thank Heavens we are blessed with so many who want to serve and shepherd the flock.
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Shinobu
Guest
If the Bible and/or the Church says women cannot be ordained then I submit to the Church.
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JCPhoenix
Guest
Yes, the Catholic Church is big enough for this all, but the Catechism and the Bible are big enough to give you the answers to the misunderstandings you hold.
The Church does not have the authority to change this doctrine, so I hope you understand there will NEVER be women as priestesses. Maybe an “offshoot” of the Catholic church will form a new denomination which will be in schism and not in line with Rome, but we usually refer to them as “Protestant.”
Please study your faith. The doctrines of our faith are not about whether we choose to accept or change them…they are our foundation and they CANNOT change.
Feminatzis love to refer to the Gnostic gospels and to the female deaconesses in the early church.
Those deaconesses were actually not ordained, but were in use at the time when baptisms were done in the nude. Their job was to protect the women from being objects of lust, and the men present from an occasion of sin when their pure intention was to wash away their sin and recieve the seal given with the sacrament.
The women were not priests and did not have the same powers as male deacons. When the baptismal custom changed (ie people were allowed to remain clothed), deaconesses faded into oblivian.
Jesus did indeed see women differently than did most of male society…he saw them as the creatures they (we) were/are created to be. He elevated them all and those women of the Bible very likely did have a role in the new Church…as shining examples of feminity in Christ.
We should all follow their example of humility and acceptance and rise to the occasions in our own life when we are to call upon those very virtues.
Those women who are crying out for ordination first of all do not understand the Church, are disobeying Christ, and are being led by pride, not by Christ.
Aixia, this is not all meant towards you but is mostly a response to the poll in general.
Obvioulsy I voted that women cannot be ordained.
I respect the word of the Lord and the example he set for us to follow. Ordination is not about power…it is all about humility.
If someone has to ask for it…no… demand a RIGHT to it, then obviously humility is not in the picture. The fruit of humility is deference…guess we dont’ see a lot of that from the feminists.
They almost make me ashamed to be female. I struggle with pride, too.
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Nan_S
Guest
Benedict XVI, while he was still Cardinal Ratzinger, was asked whether the Catholic church should consider ordaining women because of the growing shortage of priests, and to make the church more in tune with the modern world. He answered that there are already churches who do just that. They are called Lutherans. And the ordination of women has done nothing to enhance their membership numbers. (Lutherans in Germany, Episcopalians in USA: same modernization, same result.)
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rayne89
Guest
I was just think hypothetically if the church did allow for the ordaination of women to the priesthood( I know it’s not possible) what we call them? I mean we address our priests as Father John, or Father Joe what the woman we addressed as -Mother Jane?
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hthrlu
Guest
I am so sick of the anti-feminism stereotyping on this board. You would think that it is dispicable to believe in femininity as something to be proud of. I have said this before, and I will say it again - Women who desire this equality are fighting for women to be PRIESTS, NOT PRIESTESSES. There is no need to make your point by mudslinging and demeaning the opposite camp. Make your point intellectually or spiritually - not flaming, please. There is no need to be that way, and it’s not exactly showing Christ to anyone. This would also include calling everyone who believed this a “feminazi”.
Further, I am not misinformed, and my Catholic beliefs are fine. I have read and discussed this issue at length, and do not believe that the “church doesn’t have the authority” to ordain women. Yes, I know that is what Pope John Paul II said. I have read the whole thing.
I believe that if and when God’s plan includes female ordination, it will be made known to us and the church will ordain women…IF and WHEN… I also believe that anyone who disagrees with that statement is discounting any power God has in the situation. So a few women want to believe that it’s in God’s hands…what’s wrong with that? I am NOT advocating that women be ordained tomorrow, but I don’t believe that anyone should tell me it’s impossible - you and I don’t know what God’s plan is.
I didn’t vote in the poll - I don’t necessarily advocate female ordination right now, but I believe that if it’s in God’s plan, it will happen, and I will be happy to see it.
I am 25 years old, with a strong feminist background (don’t mistake that for stereotypically “feminazi” - I am pro-life, and I want to stay home and raise my children, but I believe that women are equal to men in value and worth). I was baptized and confirmed at Easter Vigil, and have passionately been studying Catholicism for the past 4 years.
God bless,
Heather
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Mom_of_one
Guest
I’ve said it before and I will say it again. We don’t hear men getting upset about not being able to get pregnant and carry a child to term.
This has never been a big issue with me because I never felt called to any sort of religious life, so I never really thought about it. I just accepted it on faith.
This has never been a big issue with me because I never felt called to any sort of religious life, so I never really thought about it. I just accepted it on faith.
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JCPhoenix
Guest
Heather, I’m sorry I offended you but I stand by what I said and my opinion is just as valid as yours. With all due respect, it is you who are reacting through your emotion.
I also leave it to God, however I now understand that the Holy Spirit will not let DOCTRINES OF THE FAITH to be perverted by secular belief that anyone has a 'RIGHT" to something ordained by God alone. BTW, I am 30, female, single, and SICK TO DEATH of the feminatzi (YES, I did use that word) propaganda being spread all around me. I have worked in male dominated fields and have worked 3 times as hard to do a job. I firmly believe we women have the right to do so…but that does not translate to be the right to change God’s laws or his precepts for us.
If you define “feminism” as “dignity of women in God’s plan”, then yes, I am a feminist. If you define it by secular culture, then you are defining yourself through a diabolical lie.
I stand by what I said. Why are you so upset by the term “priestess” vs “priest”? The reality is that the suffix of the word designates a woman. I’m sorry that offends you, but I did not write the language. I took the appropriate word. Unless a woman plans to have a sex change before her “ordination”, she will be a priestESS. But not in the Holy Catholic Church.
I do not speak for myself but I do speak for the teachings of the Church, and you do not reject my words but you do reject the teachings of Christ. I speak with the authority of the church. I am sorry you are offended by the truth that the Church CANNOT change the doctrine.
You can scream at me all you want, you can rail against conservatism, but in reality, you are railing against Christ. Why do you choose to do this?
Bless you for being pro-life and being a stay at home Mom. But please understand that feminism is like the love of money…it is the root of all evil in our society. The very need to be pro-life had it’s advent in the birth of the feminist movement, leading to contraception, free sex, and abortion.
What will you choose–the teachings of the Church or the diabolical untruth of “feminsim”?
Please choose Christ and his teachings, not the teachings with Satanic origin that have so shaped the culture of death.
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spacecadet
Guest
God did not make Mary a disciple. it is as simple as that
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hthrlu
Guest
As to the term “feminazi” - It is extremely unfair to sling the term Nazi around, and to use it freely is really demeaning to the millions of families who were slaughtered in the holocaust. You (and Rush Limbaugh) are basically saying that women who pursue equality are morally equivalent to one of the most murderous regimes in history. Wanting equal pay for equal work is equivalent to sticking Jews in gas chambers? I think not. The flaming and mudslinging has no place in a healthy debate.
As to priests vs. priestesses - Sticking the -ess suffix on any word doesn’t just designate it as female, as our culture would have you believe. Sticking that suffix on a term is making it diminutive - meaning smaller, and less important than the man’s term. Actress, Waitress, Hostess - these terms have become socially accepted to mean a female actor - but they’re demeaning in root. Priestess would do the same thing. Especially if you’re debating with people who know the difference, and they’ve asked you to quit mocking them or demeaning them, to continue to do so is not healthy debate.
You are still pretending that you know what God’s plan is. You don’t know what his plan is, neither do I. It’s entirely possible that women will never be priests, but I believe it’s in God’s hands.
Your opinion is valid - you can certainly believe that women have no place in Holy Orders, and that’s fine. But to say it’s impossible is discounting any power that God has in the situation. That’s my point. I also think you can make your point without name-calling or mockery.
God Bless,
Heather
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JCPhoenix
Guest
Heather,
Standing up for the doctrines of the faith is not “pretending” to know God’s plan as you so smugly suggest. I can and do stand up for the truth; it is up to you to decide for yourself whether you will accept it. Clearly you do not.
It is clear in the Bible that the Holy Spirit will not allow the Church to fall into errors regarding faith and morality, wich the Doctrines cover. That is God’s plan, so regarding that, because the Church teaches it, yes, I do claim to know and understand this plan.
Women cannot be ordained. Period. I’m sorry you reject this truth so I will pray for you.
Regarding the term “feminatzi”, first of all, when I see all the abortions which have and are resulting from feminist ideals, I find the comparison to the holocaust fair. Maybe we should change the term to a different diabolical suffix, but really, you are overreacting to the term. I’m sorry I offended you but in my opinion those who are militant feminists ascribing to the secular definition are “nazi-like” in thir pursuits. And that is my opinion.
The term is not meant to demean any of the slaughter of the innocent during World War II, which by the way, included the deaths in the camps by the same means of thousands of Catholics. I guess then we have a right to be offended by the term “Nazi” as well. I am not.
Regarding the “-ess” suffix, I disagree in part. To use your logic you’d better not go to Mexico…you’d be abhorred to use the feminine version of the nouns and would be referring to everyone as though they are male.
I loathe PC word changes. I’m fine with gender-neutral terms: Firefighter, Police Officer, etc. as opposed to “Fire Woman, Police Woman”. But then again, Business Woman is fine, and I have no problem with the terms “hostess”, “waitress”, etc. I do not find them demeaning, but only recognizing that the worker has dignity as a woman, not an adrogynous puppet of the secular world.
I"m sorry we can’t agree, Heather, but I"m not sure this thread is the place to continue this discussion. Perhaps you should start a new thread to discuss the term “feminatzi” for I am not the only one in this thread to use the term and in others I have seen it in many places.
God bless you and much love and peace to you. I hope you can learn to accept the teachings of Christ without dissent. I will pray for you and your family.
Standing up for the doctrines of the faith is not “pretending” to know God’s plan as you so smugly suggest. I can and do stand up for the truth; it is up to you to decide for yourself whether you will accept it. Clearly you do not.
It is clear in the Bible that the Holy Spirit will not allow the Church to fall into errors regarding faith and morality, wich the Doctrines cover. That is God’s plan, so regarding that, because the Church teaches it, yes, I do claim to know and understand this plan.
Women cannot be ordained. Period. I’m sorry you reject this truth so I will pray for you.
Regarding the term “feminatzi”, first of all, when I see all the abortions which have and are resulting from feminist ideals, I find the comparison to the holocaust fair. Maybe we should change the term to a different diabolical suffix, but really, you are overreacting to the term. I’m sorry I offended you but in my opinion those who are militant feminists ascribing to the secular definition are “nazi-like” in thir pursuits. And that is my opinion.
The term is not meant to demean any of the slaughter of the innocent during World War II, which by the way, included the deaths in the camps by the same means of thousands of Catholics. I guess then we have a right to be offended by the term “Nazi” as well. I am not.
Regarding the “-ess” suffix, I disagree in part. To use your logic you’d better not go to Mexico…you’d be abhorred to use the feminine version of the nouns and would be referring to everyone as though they are male.
I loathe PC word changes. I’m fine with gender-neutral terms: Firefighter, Police Officer, etc. as opposed to “Fire Woman, Police Woman”. But then again, Business Woman is fine, and I have no problem with the terms “hostess”, “waitress”, etc. I do not find them demeaning, but only recognizing that the worker has dignity as a woman, not an adrogynous puppet of the secular world.
I"m sorry we can’t agree, Heather, but I"m not sure this thread is the place to continue this discussion. Perhaps you should start a new thread to discuss the term “feminatzi” for I am not the only one in this thread to use the term and in others I have seen it in many places.
God bless you and much love and peace to you. I hope you can learn to accept the teachings of Christ without dissent. I will pray for you and your family.
F
FCEGM
Guest
Heather, I ask you to consider that in making such statements as above, you are implying that the Vicars of Christ through the ages have erred and that their late successor, John Paul II, because of his insistence that the Church cannot ordain women (or allow contraception, abortion, etc., etc., - pick the complaint), was somehow stuck in a long-ago faded theology that now requires some new revelation by the Holy Spirit to bring the Church into the 21st century (or 22nd, or 23rd, etc., etc.). You are also saying that you, and not the Vicar of Christ, have a better insight into what “God’s plans” are.
The late Holy Father on several occasions gave a couple of reasons why the priesthood of Christ is not an option for women, the main ones being that the priest acts ‘in persona Christe’, but also, that had women been chosen for that sacrament, Christ would have chosen His Holy Mother.
Now why don’t some find those reasons fitting?? There must be something missing or skewed in their considering this as a believer for them not to get it. IOW, they can’t think theologically very well. Probably because they have this attitude that if the arguments don’t make sense to them, they don’t make sense. Such an attitude is a failure to admit their limitations. A mind imbued with Christian humility would say, “Gee, the Pope gave us a couple of leads on why the Tradition can not be reversed; maybe I should follow those leads and reflect on how they fit with ordination”.
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