Women oppose contraception mandate on legal, medical grounds [CNA]

[bellasbane]

Completely change the entire system? Absolutely! My taxes are paying for it! BTW, my children, God Willing will never set foot inside a public school as long as I have a say in it. In fact, I’m far more bitter about the fact that despite my plans to send my children to private school, I will still have to pay for the public schools. Public Schools that have long sense needed a complete and total over hall.

I don’t know what your problem might be, but Massachusetts public schools are not that bad and most of the teachers I’ve encountered are pretty good.

 

[62Joy]

Hi 62Joy - Welcome to CAF!

You make a very good point. Some people are too quick to throw a woman’s rights under the bus in their desire to end abortion. It is a if the only strategy they can comprehend is one that requires women to be at their mercy.

Peace!
-Bella

P.S. One bit of advice - if you click the “quote” button on the bottom right, rather than the “post reply” button on the left - it will create a new post with the words from the post you are responding to automatically added at the top. It makes it easier for you to respond to someone’s comments and for us to follow your responses.

Thank you Bella…I did not know how to use the quote feature.

I do wish the pro-life movement would take a hard look at their tactics. Guilt NEVER works. Do you remember the “Life Is A Beautiful Choice” ads put out by the Church of Later Day Saints? I would be willing to bet that those positive ads did more to stop abortions than any thing else since. They made the mother look like a hero and praised her courage. They never mentioned forcing her to do anything.

The negativity shown by people on the right, who call themselves Christian, is the thing that concerns me the most. It reflects on all of us who claim to follow Jesus. They are ANTI just about everything. Here are a very few of their anti’s : anti-liberal; anti-gay rights; anti-public education; anti- teachers in public schools lest they teach a kid to think for himself; anti-unions; anti-people on welfare; anti-global warming; anti programs for the environment;, anti-undocumented immigrants, anti-science; anti- Muslims and any other faith that is not just like theirs, etc., etc. etc.

Now, if I was an agnostic watching all of this, I would have to ask myself, 'Why would I want to join them? They claim to be Christian but they are so judgmental and negative." “I know clearly what they are against but I have no idea what they are for”. “Why would I want to be so miserable as they seem to be?”

Personally, I think it comes from people like Limbaugh who has brainwashed his followers into becoming as angry as himself. … But I know some won’t like that thought.

It would be so much better if the image of people who follow Christ was one that actually represented Him: inclusive of all people especially people who are poorer, weaker, or different than us. Spreading a little more positive energy and (can I say the L word - Love.) Showing love, compassion and understanding is part of showing Jesus to others. Unfortunately, not much understanding or compassion in all those anti’s.

I think it was Mahatma Gandhi who said “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Unfortunately, very true in the discourse of today.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Additionally, the study revealed that after an abortion was performed, vaginal ultrasounds were also “always” performed at 26 percent of these sites, “under certain conditions” at 66 percent of these sites, and “never” at 8 percent.

Planned Parenthood even admits they do ultrasounds before an abortion: “That’s just the medical standard,” said Adrienne Schreiber, an official at Planned Parenthood’s Washington, D.C., regional office. “To confirm the gestational age of the pregnancy, before any procedure is done, you do an ultrasound.”

Requiring an ultrasound to take place before an abortion is performed makes sense since it ensures that the mother is actually pregnant, determines the age and size of the baby,
and aids in determining the location of the unborn child for either the vacuum machine or a needle used to end its life, if in fact a surgical abortion is decided upon. And in many abortion procedures, ultrasounds are used during the surgical abortion to ensure that the abortionist doesn’t physically harm the mother while they dismember the unborn child.

---

Again, if this is true than why is the State of Virginia mandating them??? No matter how you cut it the State has no right to demand any test be done on anyone for any reason. It sounds like Nazi Germany doing their “tests” for their own reasons. I say it is simply an infringement on individual rights. If the woman wants one fine…if she doesn’t than they should have to respect her wishes. If her doctor says she needs one that is an entirely different thing. Again I hope the ACLU gets involved in this since I would bet that it is not Constitutional if tested.

Given the gravity of killing a baby, don’t you think it is a small intrusion for an ultrasound to be done, which is done in 99% of abortion clinics already, and for the women to be given the choice to view the image of the ultrasound? I have produced a study, post #8 which showed majority of women considering an abortion wanted to see the ultrasound image. Do you not think women should be as informed as possible? Why should women be prevented from receiving accurate medical information?

Rep Lisa Billy said regarding an ultrasound law:

*‘I have personally visited with women who obtained an abortion in a panic and were devastated years later to see a friend’s ultrasound and realize: That child is the same age as my baby when … It is a devastating moment of intense sorrow and regret.’

…

Individuals who argue women are too fragile to face the reality of abortion and make an informed decision do not respect women. The image of a baby on an ultrasound provides amazing clarity of thought. What was seen as a closed door suddenly becomes a world of endless possibilities. Critics say the state should stay out of this issue, but I believe turning a blind eye to women in need is inexcusable, and preventing them from receiving accurate medical information is true cruelty. It appears the pro-choice movement believes it is a tragedy only if a woman exercises her informed right to not have an abortion, but they have no problem maintaining barriers to informed consent that will leave women emotionally shattered for the rest of their lives once they learn the truth." *

usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2010-05-10-editorial10_ST1_N.htm

Given the instances of regret that have been seen with women who got an abortion and did not see the ultrasound image, who have liked to have seen the image, they may have a made a different choice regarding their abortion if they had done - mandatory ultrasound laws are a good thing.

 

[Kelfa28]

I don’t know what your problem might be, but Massachusetts public schools are not that bad and most of the teachers I’ve encountered are pretty good.

I disagree but it also depends on what area of Massachusetts you are from. I graduated from a decent public school in a good town but the school system has taken a total nose dive over the past 15 years.

The focus has totally shifted from learning to “preparing” for tests like MCAS and such. An agenda has been clearly established that is anti-catholic and seriously anti-morals and totally contradicts the morals I want to teach my child. That was a suburban town too! The town I moved to now is right next to a city and the schools are even worse in that area in general. Metal detecters, teachers who are afraid to teach students, crumbling facilities and so on.

Massachusetts is probably one of the most liberal states in the country and it shows in the way the state wants the schools to be run. Thank-fully the town I moved to has one of the largest concentrations of Catholic schools outside of Boston. We’ve got five or six grade schools and two high schools in the surrounding are. They are excellent and leaps and bounds better then then the public school system. Of course you have to pay for the education and we’re still trying to figure out how to accomplish that on top of a mortgage and a few kids, of course. I’m sure we’ll figure it out though.

Besides, I’m back in school myself and finishing up my degree at UMASS and the students I’ve seen and met, who have graduated from high school, in the area recently, have a severe lack of fundamentals in education. They lack everything! Basic math, reading and writing skills and it’s surprising and totally appalling. The quality of education has really gone down-hill.

 

[62Joy]

Given the gravity of killing a baby, don’t you think it is a small intrusion for an ultrasound to be done, which is done in 99% of abortion clinics already, and for the women to be given the choice to view the image of the ultrasound? I have produced a study, post #8 which showed majority of women considering an abortion wanted to see the ultrasound image. Do you not think women should be as informed as possible? Why should women be prevented from receiving accurate medical information?

Rep Lisa Billy said regarding an ultrasound law:

usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2010-05-10-editorial10_ST1_N.htm

Given the instances of regret that have been seen with women who got an abortion and did not see the ultrasound image, who have liked to have seen the image, they may have a made a different choice regarding their abortion if they had done - mandatory ultrasound laws are a good thing.

The ends never justify the means in this kind of thing. One evil does not justify another evil.

No, I don’t think that if I were there and someone said to me that I HAD to take AND PAY for a test I did not want or could not afford; My first thought would not be “Oh, they are offering me the opportunity to change my mind - I will be so happy if I do”, –

• It would be “How dare they force me to do something I don’t want to do and how am I going to pay for it” It might even make me more (not less) likely to go through with the abortion. I might leave then and drive to another state or come back when I had saved the money - which would make the abortion later term.

I doubt very much that stepping on a woman’s rights is going to make her want to embrace your thinking.

 

[fix]

The ends never justify the means in this kind of thing. One evil does not justify another evil.

True, but in the situation you present the means are not evil.

I doubt very much that stepping on a woman’s rights is going to make her want to embrace your thinking.

There is no right to abortion.

 

[_Abyssinia]

The ends never justify the means in this kind of thing. One evil does not justify another evil.

No, I don’t think that if I were there and someone said to me that I HAD to take AND PAY for a test I did not want or could not afford; My first thought would not be “Oh, they are offering me the opportunity to change my mind - I will be so happy if I do”, –

• It would be “How dare they force me to do something I don’t want to do and how am I going to pay for it” It might even make me more (not less) likely to go through with the abortion. I might leave then and drive to another state or come back when I had saved the money - which would make the abortion later term.

I doubt very much that stepping on a woman’s rights is going to make her want to embrace your thinking.

Do you have a problem with the fact that ultrasounds are already done in 99% of abortion clinics before an abortion? Because if you do not have a problem with that, you should not have a problem with this.

 

[scipio337]

True, but in the situation you present the means are not evil.

There is no right to abortion.

I thought this warranted highlighting!

Oddly enough, when the law was amended to exclude the invasive ultrasounds, one party (take a guess!) still voted against it.