Women pastors/preachers in 'Bible only' denominations

[StrawberryJam]

Ok so no more women lectors. No Eucharist distributors. Afterall they do have to speak the words “The Body of Christ”.

As far as I know, women can be lectors. And EMHC’s.

They are not reading, leading or teaching the gospel to anyone, but their roles are important as you noted, and are. Just not in a leadership of a flock.

As we can see here, in one small example in one denomination, how can they lead a flock when no one even knows what they are doing, how they are doing it and don’t care?

 

[Sushi]

I’ve heard the arguments some Protestants use to accept women “ordination”. (Notice, I said some. )

“Oh, that was just for back then.”
“That doesn’t mean literally.”
“Paul was kinda sexist. We don’t have to listen to him.”
“But Jesus told Mary Magdalene to tell what she had seen! That means Jesus thinks it’s okay!”

I know, because I used to be one of those liberal Protestants. However, it took some prayer (and maybe God’s 2 x 4) to realize that Paul was not a sexist man, and that women have their place and role in the Church body. Does that mean women are inferior or unequal? No, and Scripture affirms that fact.

Men are the leaders and priests, and we, as women, are to support them.

I agree with you. At one time I was a huge feminist and against the fact that women couldn’t lead the church. It is the word of God though, and I firmly believe it is their for a reason just like everything else in the bible. :bible1:

 

[Fayle]

Can someone please explain to me why exactly women aren’t supposed to speak in church? Thanks.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Can someone please explain to me why exactly women aren’t supposed to speak in church? Thanks.

Its all about the interpretation of Paul of Tarsus for those who claim they can not.

Its all about money and land and having to support offspring that the catholic church does not allow it.

 

[CMatt25]

As far as I know, women can be lectors. And EMHC’s.

They are not reading, leading or teaching the gospel to anyone, but their roles are important as you noted, and are. Just not in a leadership of a flock.

As we can see here, in one small example in one denomination, how can they lead a flock when no one even knows what they are doing, how they are doing it and don’t care?

You are correct. Yes they can be lectors. Sorry I was being somewhat sarcastic in my post since the women not speaking quote was used earlier in the thread. Anyway they may not read the Gospel but they do still proclaim the Word in Scripture readings in the Catholic Church. I’m fine with it. But then I’d be fine with women priests too since they’re already speaking the Word aloud to us.

 

[StrawberryJam]

You are correct. Yes they can be lectors. Sorry I was being somewhat sarcastic in my post since the women not speaking quote was used earlier in the thread. Anyway they may not read the Gospel but they do still proclaim the Word in Scripture readings.

Huge difference my friend. Huge.

For instance, if you note at Mass no one stands up for the readings.

They stand up for the Gospel, literally.

 

[shawn38]

You are correct. Yes they can be lectors. Sorry I was being somewhat sarcastic in my post since the women not speaking quote was used earlier in the thread. Anyway they may not read the Gospel but they do still proclaim the Word in Scripture readings in the Catholic Church. I’m fine with it. But then I’d be fine with women priests too since they’re already speaking the Word aloud to us.

Support for deaconess

Original Word: διάκονος
Transliteration: diakonos
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ak’-on-os)
Short Definition: deacon

Murdock Translation from Aramaic
Romans 16:01 And I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is a** servant **of the church in Cenchrea:
02 that ye may receive her in our Lord, as is just for saints; and that ye may assist her, in whatever thing she may ask of you: for she also hath been assistant to many, and to me also.

Disciples New Testament, “the Galilean” Edition. (Aramaic)

1. I introduce you then to Phoebe, who is the **minister **of the church of Cencheae.
2. That you receive her in our Lord as he blesses the saints, and that in everything she wishes to ask of you, you provide her, because she too has been a sustaining member to many, including me.

Lamsa (Aramaic) Translation uses deaconess

Greek uses diakonon = servant

Douay-Rheims Bible
Rom 16:1 AND I commend to you Phebe, our sister, **who is in the ministry **of the church, that is in Cenchrae: 2 That you receive her in the Lord as becometh saints; and that you assist her in whatsoever business she shall have need of you. For she also hath assisted many, and myself also.

KJV
1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

 

[MaryandJoseph]

Jesus loved women and many if not most of His followers were women, including those who financially supported His ministry. But, and this is very clear from scripture, that He chose ONLY men to be His Apostles and only Men were chosen as elders and leaders of the Church.

Now, I have heard many say that during the days when Jesus walked among us, that was just the custom of the time and that women where relagated to Second Class status. BUNK and FOOOOYYY!!!

Jesus is the ALPHA and the OMEGA and the Word (both written And oral) are meant for All peoples of All times, don’t ya think that God had a full and complete understanding of the 21st century and how ever many more centuries we will live through before the Second Coming? God is not boxed in by time, He is Eternal, He sees all generations as the Here and Now.

The Word of God is Timeless and applies to All generations.

As for Mary Magdalene (sp) Yes, Jesus appeared to her first (what a great and humble honor) to announce that He has risen, but it was Not Mary who entered the Tomb, it was the Apostles.

Jesus has all authority under heaven and earth and being God can do anything He pleases, and if He wanted women to preach and have a share in the Apostolic ministry, He would have done so, but He didn’t.

Whether the feminist like it or not, that is the way Jesus set things up. So complaints and issues concerning your wanting to pastor a church need to be addressed to Jesus Himself, ask HIM why you should NOT be pastors.

Female Priests???:tsktsk:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Support for deaconess

Original Word: διάκονος
Transliteration: diakonos
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ak’-on-os)
Short Definition: deacon

Murdock Translation from Aramaic
Romans 16:01 And I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is a** servant **of the church in Cenchrea:
02 that ye may receive her in our Lord, as is just for saints; and that ye may assist her, in whatever thing she may ask of you: for she also hath been assistant to many, and to me also.

Disciples New Testament, “the Galilean” Edition. (Aramaic)

1. I introduce you then to Phoebe, who is the **minister **of the church of Cencheae.
2. That you receive her in our Lord as he blesses the saints, and that in everything she wishes to ask of you, you provide her, because she too has been a sustaining member to many, including me.

Lamsa (Aramaic) Translation uses deaconess

Greek uses diakonon = servant

Douay-Rheims Bible
Rom 16:1 AND I commend to you Phebe, our sister, **who is in the ministry **of the church, that is in Cenchrae: 2 That you receive her in the Lord as becometh saints; and that you assist her in whatsoever business she shall have need of you. For she also hath assisted many, and myself also.

KJV
1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Shawn,

No one is saying a woman has no place in a Church, but scriptures are clear when speaking about a woman teaching a man.

You use the word minister and I remember, years ago, when I was a Protestant it was common to refer to a pastor or preacher as the minister.

Do you think Phebe taught Paul, or do you think she ‘ministered’ to him in other ways?

What about Peter’s mother? Did she arise and minister/teach the Apostles and our Lord?

**Mat 8:15

(DRB) And he touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she arose and ministered to them.

(Etheridge) And he touched her with his hand, and the fever left her; and she arose and ministered to them.

(IGNT+) καιG2532 AND ηψατοG680 [G5662] τηςG3588 HE TOUCHED χειροςG5495 αυτηςG846 HER HAND, καιG2532 AND αφηκενG863 [G5656] LEFT αυτηνG846 HER οG3588 THE πυρετοςG4446 FEVER; καιG2532 AND ηγερθηG1453 [G5681] SHE AROSE καιG2532 AND διηκονειG1247 [G5707] MINISTERED αυτοιςG846 TO THEM.

(KJV+) AndG2532 he touchedG680 herG846 hand,G5495 andG2532 theG3588 feverG4446 leftG863 her:G846 andG2532 she arose,G1453 andG2532 ministeredG1247 unto them.G846

(KJVA) And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.

(Murdock) And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose and ministered to them. **

Minister is not always used in a ‘lead’ capacity. It is used many times to say ‘serve’ or ‘attend to’.

I noticed you provided a ‘short’ definition and I offer a fuller explanation below.

G1247
διακονέω
diakoneō
dee-ak-on-eh’-o
From G1249; to be an attendant, that is, wait upon (menially or as a host, friend or [figuratively] teacher); technically to act as a Christian deacon: - (ad-) minister (unto), serve, use the office of a deacon.

 

[SyCarl]

Who cares what happened in the old testament. Your Jesus decided what he wanted. He chose men.

What happened in the Old Testament is very important. God does not change so if He allowed women to have authority in the Old Testamernt I can see no reason that they cannot have it in the New Testament.

I once held the view that women could not be ministers based on the references in the original post. It is only recently that on reading Judges again that its importance struck me.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

What happened in the Old Testament is very important. God does not change so if He allowed women to have authority in the Old Testamernt I can see no reason that they cannot have it in the New Testament.

I once held the view that women could not be ministers based on the references in the original post. It is only recently that on reading Judges again that its importance struck me.

Hello again Sy,

What law was Paul referring too in 1 Corinthians 14:34? Was it the law as given in Genesis 3:16?

**1Co 14:34 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak but to be subject, as also the law saith.
1Co 14:35 But if they would learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.

Gen 3:16 To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power, and he shall have dominion over thee.**

What was a woman’s role in the Temple or synagogues in either the Old or New Testament?

Why were women separated in a Court of Women in the Temple?

 

[CMatt25]

Support for deaconess

Original Word: διάκονος
Transliteration: diakonos
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ak’-on-os)
Short Definition: deacon

Murdock Translation from Aramaic
Romans 16:01 And I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is a** servant **of the church in Cenchrea:
02 that ye may receive her in our Lord, as is just for saints; and that ye may assist her, in whatever thing she may ask of you: for she also hath been assistant to many, and to me also.

Disciples New Testament, “the Galilean” Edition. (Aramaic)

1. I introduce you then to Phoebe, who is the **minister **of the church of Cencheae.
2. That you receive her in our Lord as he blesses the saints, and that in everything she wishes to ask of you, you provide her, because she too has been a sustaining member to many, including me.

Lamsa (Aramaic) Translation uses deaconess

Greek uses diakonon = servant

Douay-Rheims Bible
Rom 16:1 AND I commend to you Phebe, our sister, **who is in the ministry **of the church, that is in Cenchrae: 2 That you receive her in the Lord as becometh saints; and that you assist her in whatsoever business she shall have need of you. For she also hath assisted many, and myself also.

KJV
1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

But does the Catholic Church allow women to be deacons?

 

[CMatt25]

Shawn,

No one is saying a woman has no place in a Church, but scriptures are clear when speaking about a woman teaching a man.

A female lector reading Scripture I guess is not teaching me anything about what’s in Scripture then.

 

[grace_singh]

the role of deaconess was clearly not the same as that of a bishop, overseer, church leader, or what we would today call a pastor or priest.

likely deaconesses were involved in caring for and serving the poor within the community, ministering to other women, helping and serving church members, and serving in other ways within the church (eg. organizing materials to distribute to the needy). she certainly would not have been over a deacon, or on par with the leader of that local church.

again, women can serve within the church in many ways. they are just not to teach or have authority over men, lead a church, or speak therein as anything but a congregation member. a congregation member with a repected title and special reponsibilities in this case, but still a congregation member.

 

[shawn38]

Shawn,

No one is saying a woman has no place in a Church, but scriptures are clear when speaking about a woman teaching a man.

You use the word minister and I remember, years ago, when I was a Protestant it was common to refer to a pastor or preacher as the minister.

The Bible uses the word minister. I’m merely citing that women apparently have a position in the church whether lay people or as deconess. I’ll admit that there seems to be a conflict. This point I’m glad that the Catholic church has held firm so far.

 

[Corki]

A female lector reading Scripture I guess is not teaching me anything about what’s in Scripture then.

Are we talking about Catholic or are you referring to the Bible-only denominations in the OP?

In the Catholic Church, lectors are men. Readers can be men or women.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

There is a difference between reading scriptures and reading Gospels that come with a homily, or teaching.

 

[SyCarl]

There is a difference between reading scriptures and reading Gospels that come with a homily, or teaching.

If women can read the scriptures, how does that conform with Paul’s statement that women are to keep silent and not speak in Church? I am pretty sure that reading the scriptures involves speaking.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If women can read the scriptures, how does that conform with Paul’s statement that women are to keep silent and not speak in Church? I am pretty sure that reading the scriptures involves speaking.

Reading is speaking, I’ll agree with that, but it is reading under the authority of the priest, or in other terms ‘assisting’ him.

 

[CMatt25]

Are we talking about Catholic or are you referring to the Bible-only denominations in the OP?

In the Catholic Church, lectors are men. Readers can be men or women.

You’re sure about that? I think perhaps you are mincing words. Do a google and you will find many women lectors in Catholic churches. Perhaps you are attemptng to separate lector from some sort of officially ordained lector.