Women "Priests" in the news . . . How do we feel about this?

[cardenio]

When I was little, my sister and I would have mass in our basement with Ritz crackers and Kool-aid and an outdated missalette. I wanted to be a priest so badly–because I had acquired the amazingly unique ability to know and be able to predict exactly what the priest was going to say. This I knew to be extraordinary and because of that I was convinced that God was calling me to become a priest.

Eventually I found out that that wasn’t exactly the Catholic way of going about things, and I was angry for a while.

Then I realized how stupid I was to think that memorizing how to say mass was not such an extraordinary feat. Honestly. How many people go to mass every week and hear the same thing every time?

Then I decided, well, let God do what God wants to do. God knows more than me, and he is likely to know what’s best.

And now I understand.

Ooh, check it out, 10 years of maturation in one post!

 

[Symeon_Peter]

Originally posted by ByzCath
I find this thread very humorous.

Why must we continue to discuss something that can never change?

I think I will start a new thread.

2+2=4… How do we feel about this?

i’m glad to see that we agree on something, as this I too feel very adamant about this issue. very little can be accomplished from this rant. Let them complain, Rome is swift and solid.

---

may the peace of Christ extend to you.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Symeon_Peter:

i’m glad to see that we agree on something, as this I too feel very adamant about this issue. very little can be accomplished from this rant. Let them complain, Rome is swift and solid.

---

may the peace of Christ extend to you.

It’s interesting to me that those who want to end this Thread are those most posting into it! I’ve made my decision which appears in the Water Cooler in response to a question asked of me in a Post…see the thread I started on 'Senior Member?..!!!..???"

Regards Barb smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_14_7.gif

Bethany South Australia
Wed. 29.6.05 4.1 3pm

 

[CatholicCid]

I tend to think that if the Thread moved only one person (namely me) to do a bit of pondering and praying then the Thread had value, tho the subject may be verboten, tired and worn out?

I’d assume you mean this…
And of course this post has value… Some people are just tired from giving similar answers from old threads… They have yet to learn the joys of copy and paste

 

[BarbaraTherese]

CatholicCid:

I’d assume you mean this…
And of course this post has value… Some people are just tired from giving similar answers from old threads… They have yet to learn the joys of copy and paste

Hi th re CatholicCid smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_4_14.gif …Yep I sure mean it…in following this thread I thought there was a wealth of information on the Church’s standing on female priests…certainly new to one who does not have a ‘legalistic mind’; nevertheless very interesting and even moreso educational stuff and I hold to that premise that we have an obligation to educate our consciences. Frankly I had no idea that women priests was such a verboten issue. Its never been an issue that I have given a lot of thought to besides just not understanding why women priests could never be.

So yes I do plan to copy and paste…then print and file into a binder much from this Thread on the Church’s stand - time presenting itself. As this Thread unfolded I did wing quite a few to The Lord smarting!!! i.e. I am already in ‘Prayer-mode’ on the issue. So this Thread has not been entirely a useless cause as I said in my Post into the Water Cooler. Once my binder is established it just may be helpful to more than me as I can sometimes find with my various binders on differing subjects.

Regards Barb
Bethany smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_35.gif
South Australia
Wed. 29.6.05 4.37pm

 

[InnocentIII]

BarbaraTherese:

Hi th re CatholicCid smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_4_14.gif …Yep I sure mean it…in following this thread I thought there was a wealth of information on the Church’s standing on female priests…certainly new to one who does not have a ‘legalistic mind’; nevertheless very interesting and even moreso educational stuff and I hold to that premise that we have an obligation to educate our consciences. Frankly I had no idea that women priests was such a verboten issue. Its never been an issue that I have given a lot of thought to besides just not understanding why women priests could never be.

So yes I do plan to copy and paste…then print and file into a binder much from this Thread on the Church’s stand - time presenting itself. As this Thread unfolded I did wing quite a few to The Lord smarting!!! i.e. I am already in ‘Prayer-mode’ on the issue. So this Thread has not been entirely a useless cause as I said in my Post into the Water Cooler. Once my binder is established it just may be helpful to more than me as I can sometimes find with my various binders on differing subjects.

Regards Barb
Bethany smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_35.gif
South Australia
Wed. 29.6.05 4.37pm

God bless you Barb and may Our lady ever keep you in her prayers.

 

[Lisa_N]

Zooey:

I have tried not to comment on this subject, because–being a Protestant-- I have felt uncomfortable getting into a “strictly Catholic” subject…But I have to say that, if the people who think that women priests would be a good idea, were to walk in my (Methodist) shoes for a while, thus being exposed to women pastors, I think they would change their minds.
I have a male pastor, but a number of churches in the area have women. They also have all kinds of problems…This is not a coincidence. This is not a job for a woman!
My reasons for saying this are different from the reasoning of the Catholic church on the subject–at least, as far as I understand it–but the facts are the facts: it just does not work out. Be thankful that you don;t have to deal with the kind of chaos that I have seen in churches who have put women into a position that scripture (& tradition) have said is not appropriate.
God bless.

Zooey did not realize you were (still?) a Methodist. As someone who recently converted from that very church, I agree in total. We had a male minister and a female minister. The female was constantly agitating about her ‘rights.’ She did NOT have the gift of preaching but kept insisting she have time in the pulpit. She had a voice reminiscent of fingernails on a chalkboard.

She was incredibly moody, impatient and really was not a good minister but because she was female everyone tippytoed around her tantrums and demands. Finally the church council fired her after numerous complaints. In saying this I am not stating that all women are moody witches with a B, but that I agree, the pastoral role is from term referring to father is it not? Women just do not fit this role. They are square pegs in round holes. They do have many gifts to give within the Church but being a priest is not one of them.

Lisa N

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Lisa N:

Zooey did not realize you were (still?) a Methodist. As someone who recently converted from that very church, I agree in total. We had a male minister and a female minister. The female was constantly agitating about her ‘rights.’ She did NOT have the gift of preaching but kept insisting she have time in the pulpit. She had a voice reminiscent of fingernails on a chalkboard.

She was incredibly moody, impatient and really was not a good minister but because she was female everyone tippytoed around her tantrums and demands. Finally the church council fired her after numerous complaints. In saying this I am not stating that all women are moody witches with a B, but that I agree, the pastoral role is from term referring to father is it not? Women just do not fit this role. They are square pegs in round holes. They do have many gifts to give within the Church but being a priest is not one of them.

Lisa N

I am yet to make up my own mind on this issue…I plant to copy cut and print into a binder on the subject all the posts or most of them anyway in this Thread and have a prayerful think about the matter. Frankly, I dont take too kindly to having to believe under some dire threat from Rome or anywhere else!..tho the threat be real!!! This makes religion a matter of fear!

I think there are a couple of nuns anyway…and a few lay women who would function (were it permitted) in a priestly role excellently. They are gifted and inspired speakers…excellent counsellors and administrators and holy women…who I am sure would laugh off any suggestion that the would function well in a priestly role…maybe even register some horror at the suggestion…nevertheless such is my opinion. To sweep women completely away as it were because of their intrinsic nature is not logical. Nor is it logical to conclude that thus women are suited always to the role because of their intrinsic nature. Men also fall into that latter category.

St. Albert in his Rule which was amended and corrected and then confirmed by Pope Innocent 1V …catgegorically states at the conclusion of his rule on fasting that “necessity overrides EVERY law” …perhaps Rome needs to have a look at this statement and tie it up in legal terms to limit what St. Albert was saying? St Albert is a Father of The Church.
I thought I should put in the rule on fasting in full so the context can be seen:
“You are to fast every day, except Sundays, from the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross until Easter day, unless bdily sickness or feebleness, or some other good reasod demand a dispensation from the fast; for necessity overrides every law.”( Page 19. Rule Constition and Declarations Discalced Carmlite Nuns)

I am not implying that at this point in time necessity makes woman priests necessary. Such is not so and here in Australia our vocations to the Priesthood (male) are increasing and a very hopeful sign. I can see however how sweeping is the statement St. Albert made, and I agree with it.

Regards Barb
Bethany South Australia
Thur. 30.6.05 9.24pm
First Roman Martyrs PFU

 

[BarbaraTherese]

InnocentIII:

God bless you Barb and may Our lady ever keep you in her prayers.

Thank you Innocent lll…if I am saved from the fire of Hell…i shall immediately go to Our Lady and say thank you…I never turn to her but in dire necessity…she has never ever failed me!.. my Dad passed on to me great devotion to Our Lady of Perpetual Help.
I was once pondering with a nun I know who is a prioress why I always turn to Our Lady in dire necessity only…" Oh" Sister replied to me:" you do not bother her unnecessarily"

I thought that was a beautiful gentle response…if possibly not quite on the knocker as it were!!!

St. Therese wrote that she had a choice to be a great sinner or a great saint…I tend to think I know the feeling tho I fail most miserably on the saint issue…to save my soul for me is sufficient!!!

Send regards especially Innocent lll…would if only I could keep you on my side!!! (joke!)

Barb Bethany South Australia
Thur. 30.6.05 9.50pm
First Roman Martyrs PFU

 

[Lisa_N]

BarbaraTherese:

I am yet to make up my own mind on this issue…

Is your opinion even relevant? Regardless of whether you believe it is appropriate for females to be Catholic priests, it’s neither supported by Scripture, the CCC, the Pope or any other authority. So does it matter how you feel on the subject? Seems like it would only create internal conflict to cogitate on the subject. It was settled long before either of us ever showed up on the earth.

BarbaraTherese:

.I plant to copy cut and print into a binder on the subject all the posts or most of them anyway in this Thread and have a prayerful think about the matter. Frankly, I dont take too kindly to having to believe under some dire threat from Rome or anywhere else!..tho the threat be real!!! This makes religion a matter of fear!

What are you afraid of? Last time I looked the Thought Police were not part of the Vatican. You can think whatever you want.

BarbaraTherese:

I think there are a couple of nuns anyway…and a few lay women who would function (were it permitted) in a priestly role excellently. They are gifted and inspired speakers…excellent counsellors and administrators and holy women…

Something about the Eucharist might make them less than priestly don’t you think? What about apostolic succession? A priest is more than a psychologist wannabe and a gifted speaker isn’t he?

BarbaraTherese:

.who I am sure would laugh off any suggestion that the would function well in a priestly role…maybe even register some horror at the suggestion…nevertheless such is my opinion. To sweep women completely away as it were because of their intrinsic nature is not logical. Nor is it logical to conclude that thus women are suited always to the role because of their intrinsic nature. Men also fall into that latter category.

You could say the same thing about motherhood. To say that men cannot bear and nurse a child does not ‘sweep them away’ from any role in parenting. However by their nature they are unable to be mothers. Wishing and wanting can’t change someone’s intrinsic nature.

Lisa N

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I will be catching up on any Threads or Posts tonight…meanwhile I wanted to post this article from Zenit…The World from Rome. There is no copyright infringement if I detail the article in full as there is no copyright warning on the website:…

http://by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.c...0001&a=98040fe5a2bb7227109959ec55df9095#73461

Pronouncement on Religious Freedom

Cardinal Martino Clarifies Popes’ Various Pronouncements

ROME, JUNE 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Has the Catholic Church contradicted itself in the last centuries by first condemning and then defending religious freedom?

Cardinal Renato Martino answered this question in the negative during a presentation of the “2005 Report on Religious Freedom in the World.” The report was written by the Catholic organization Aid to the Church in Need.

Speaking today in the Italian Chamber of Deputies, in the presence of lawmakers and journalists, the president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace recalled a statement in the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church.

That statement clarifies that “the distinction between religion and politics and the principle of religious freedom constitute a specific acquisition of Christianity, of great relevance at the historical and cultural level.”

Religious freedom, Cardinal Martino explained, “was decidedly condemned by Pius IX in 1864, in the ‘Syllabus’; but it had already been condemned earlier by Gregory XVI in the encyclical ‘Mirari Vos’ of 1832, while it was recognized a century later by the Second Vatican Council in the declaration ‘Dignitatis Humanae.’”

Relativism

The cardinal then asked: "Is the papal magisterium of the 19th-century Popes in the matter of religious freedom, in contradiction with the deliberations of Vatican II?

“Not at all. In ‘Mirari Vos’ and in the ‘Syllabus,’ in fact, religious freedom was not condemned, but rather a certain philosophical conception of religious freedom, which prevailed at the time. This conception entailed relativism, syncretism and even indifference in religious matters, with an equating in essence of truth and error.”

“It is totally obvious that these positions are incompatible with the nature of the Church, which has the certainty of truth,” Cardinal Martino said.

In the declaration “Dignitatis Humanae” the Council stated explicitly that, at the moral level, every man has the obligation to seek the truth and to follow it, he added.

“Truth and error are not on the same level, either from the philosophical or the theological point of view,” the cardinal said.

This conciliar declaration regards religious freedom as “a natural right, based on the very dignity of the human person, which is defined as the right not to be subjected to external coercions in religious matters.”

Demands of truth

The president of the pontifical council said all people “must adhere to the known truth and to order their lives according to the exigencies of truth.”

“But people are not capable of responding to this obligation according to their nature, if they don’t enjoy psychological freedom and at the same time immunity from external coercion,” added Cardinal Martino.

The right to this “immunity,” he said, “endures even among those who do not comply with the obligation to seek the truth and to adhere to it; and its exercise cannot be impeded, so long as it respects the just public order.”

ZE05063003

Regards Barb

Bethany Sth. Aust. Fri. l.7.05 1.59pm
By Your Cross and Resurrection you have set us free…You Are The Saviour Of The World!!!..

 

[hkct]

There is one truth — that God has revealed his truth to us in Jesus Christ and that Jesus is the truth.

Women Priests = moral relativism = everybody lives according to their wishes, not God’s wishes.

Women Priests = Big no no!

 

[Zooey]

Lisa N:

Zooey did not realize you were (still?) a Methodist. As someone who recently converted from that very church, I agree in total. We had a male minister and a female minister. The female was constantly agitating about her ‘rights.’ She did NOT have the gift of preaching but kept insisting she have time in the pulpit. She had a voice reminiscent of fingernails on a chalkboard.
She was incredibly moody, impatient and really was not a good minister but because she was female everyone tippytoed around her tantrums and demands. Finally the church council fired her after numerous complaints. In saying this I am not stating that all women are moody witches with a B, but that I agree, the pastoral role is from term referring to father is it not? Women just do not fit this role. They are square pegs in round holes. They do have many gifts to give within the Church but being a priest is not one of them.
Lisa N

I think that the saddest thing is that many of these women could be very good in some other form of ministry! (One I know of, has:yup: great musical gifts, for example!)
Also being a pastor seems often to be making a political statement for many women. It’s :nope: not about Jesus Christ, it’s about being “liberated” & PC.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Lisa N:

Is your opinion even relevant? Regardless of whether you believe it is appropriate for females to be Catholic priests, it’s neither supported by Scripture, the CCC, the Pope or any other authority. So does it matter how you feel on the subject? Seems like it would only create internal conflict to cogitate on the subject. It was settled long before either of us ever showed up on the earth.

What are you afraid of? Last time I looked the Thought Police were not part of the Vatican. You can think whatever you want.

Something about the Eucharist might make them less than priestly don’t you think? What about apostolic succession? A priest is more than a psychologist wannabe and a gifted speaker isn’t he?

You could say the same thing about motherhood. To say that men cannot bear and nurse a child does not ‘sweep them away’ from any role in parenting. However by their nature they are unable to be mothers. Wishing and wanting can’t change someone’s intrinsic nature.

Lisa N

Hi Lisa N…well I see luv!!!..I think I am talking to the topic…think!..thus relavent…and every opinion has value to me…as does yours but after all opinion only…and think what you like of me…thinking is a form of reality…but not necessarily the reality. Yet thank you for your thoughts…I shall return to them at a later date once this thread plays itself out and I copy, cut and print into a binder for pondering. St. T. of Avila said that when someone makes a derogatory personal comment…just think about what they could say if they knew ALL you secrets…and rejoice.

I rejoice in your Post Lisa N!

Regards Barb
Bethany Sth. Aust.
Fri l.7.05 4.17pm

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Lisa N:

Is your opinion even relevant? Regardless of whether you believe it is appropriate for females to be Catholic priests, it’s neither supported by Scripture, the CCC, the Pope or any other authority. So does it matter how you feel on the subject? Seems like it would only create internal conflict to cogitate on the subject. It was settled long before either of us ever showed up on the earth.

What are you afraid of? Last time I looked the Thought Police were not part of the Vatican. You can think whatever you want.

Something about the Eucharist might make them less than priestly don’t you think? What about apostolic succession? A priest is more than a psychologist wannabe and a gifted speaker isn’t he?

You could say the same thing about motherhood. To say that men cannot bear and nurse a child does not ‘sweep them away’ from any role in parenting. However by their nature they are unable to be mothers. Wishing and wanting can’t change someone’s intrinsic nature.

Lisa N

 

[HagiaSophia]

BarbaraTherese:

St. Albert in his Rule which was amended and corrected and then confirmed by Pope Innocent 1V …catgegorically states at the conclusion of his rule on fasting that “necessity overrides EVERY law” …perhaps Rome needs to have a look at this statement and tie it up in legal terms to limit what St. Albert was saying? St Albert is a Father of The Church.
I thought I should put in the rule on fasting in full so the context can be seen:
“You are to fast every day, except Sundays, from the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross until Easter day, unless bdily sickness or feebleness, or some other good reasod demand a dispensation from the fast; for necessity overrides every law.”( Page 19. Rule Constition and Declarations Discalced Carmlite Nuns)

Your quote indicates that he was speaking about the rules for the Discalced Carmelite nuns - every order has rules and constitutions. Such a rule would apply specifically to that congregation regarding fasting practices-- not to the church as a whole and by that statement he is telling the sisters that in cases of “necessity” such as illness, infirmity etc. that the rule on fasting can be dispensed.

I am sorry but try as I may, I cannot connect this to “women priests”.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

HagiaSophia:

Your quote indicates that he was speaking about the rules for the Discalced Carmelite nuns - every order has rules and constitutions. Such a rule would apply specifically to that congregation regarding fasting practices-- not to the church as a whole and by that statement he is telling the sisters that in cases of “necessity” such as illness, infirmity etc. that the rule on fasting can be dispensed.

I am sorry but try as I may, I cannot connect this to “women priests”.

Perhaps I need clarify my position again. I hold that only males can become Priests. That is my belief…tho I do not understand why women are excluded.

As to St. Albert…perhaps Pope Innocent lV when he corrected the rule should have clarified then St. Albert’s statement: necessity will override all rules in this Rule. St. Albert’s statement remains sweeping: “necessity overrides every LAW”. I certainly know that in case of threatened death t here is no necessity to proclaim one’s Faith…to deny under pressure is not sinful. Despite the fact The Church declares the martyr’s crown to win one instantaneous Heaven.

Regards Barb
Fri. l.7.05 8.22pm
By Your Cross!

 

[Belinda]

I also, being a 20th century thinking female, have pondered this dogma of the faith with some consternation over the years. It would seem, logical and reasonable, to our modern minds, that women should be able to be priests. BUT, when I ponder “my own wisdom” I am usually in some conflict with eternal truths. My advice to any woman or man who finds personal conflict with dogmas of the Catholic Faith to pursue these very issues in study and contact your spiritural advisor. This is a wonderful opportunity to delve deeper into your own spirituality and to come closer to understanding God’s master plan as defined by the Church. The very issues that caused me the greatest distress (ex., the Churh’s rules about birth control, divorce, homosexuality) led me to first doubt the truth of the Church, but ulitmately studying further the Reasons for the Church’s rules led to my agreement with those rules. By the Grace of God we have 2000 years of history and wonderful modern and ancient writers to guide us.

I guarentee that if you study and pray further about this RULE you too will draw closer to the Church because you will come to a greater understanding of Eternal Truths instead of mere “current thinking”. I believe that is our obligation as Catholics of faith. Scott Hahn always talks about Faith and Reason. This is the beauty of the Catholic Church, we have both.

Sincerely a sister in Christ,

Belinda

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

HagiaSophia:

Your quote indicates that he was speaking about the rules for the Discalced Carmelite nuns - every order has rules and constitutions. Such a rule would apply specifically to that congregation regarding fasting practices-- not to the church as a whole and by that statement he is telling the sisters that in cases of “necessity” such as illness, infirmity etc. that the rule on fasting can be dispensed.

I am sorry but try as I may, I cannot connect this to “women priests”.

HagiaSophia,
A bit of a clairification here.

This rule that is being discussed is the rule of the Carmelites. The leader of the Carmelites, knows as Brother B, approached St Albert, the Patriarch of Jerusalem sometime between 1206 and 1214. At this time there were no Carmelite nuns and the Discalced Carmelite did not yet exist.

The rule in question is numnber 16 and reads…

**[16]
**You are to fast every day, except Sundays, from the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross until Easter Day, unless bodily sickness or feebleness, or some other good reason, demand a dispensation from the fast; for necessity overrides every law.

I do not see how one can take the ending of this rule, “for necessity overrides every law.” and try to apply this to the Church as a whole.

Not to mention that male only ordination is not a law but a dogma.

 

[Servant1]

To answer this question implies that here ARE women priests. I’m quite sure the correct Catholic (or Orthodox) answer is that there ARE no women priests, so there is no way to feel this way or that about something that does not exist.