Women "Priests" in the news . . . How do we feel about this?

[Daniel_Kane]

Women priests are nothing to be concerned about. I am about as worried or interested in their vain and prideful antics than I am worried about what happens to the bread when my boys “play Mass”.

In both cases, nothing happens except a religious themed costume party.

Besides, most of these are grandmothers the last vestige of the post Vatican II confusion. They ordained two ladies in Rochester, NY a few years back and everyone laid on hands but a Catholic Bishop and my Baptist mother-in-law. Even as you can not consecrate birthday cake into the Eucharist, you can not ordain women as priest because as someone said once “matter matters”.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

CheesusPowerKid:

Why would a woman want to become a priest? She can serve God and the Church just as completely and fully in an order of sisters, so then why the desire to become a priest? Because she wants to be able to consecrate the Host? Isn’t that less about God’s will and more about her own? She wants the power a priest has…that’s pure inner motive, nothing Godly. A true woman of God would be just as content in her place as a sister, a Bride of Christ…

Hi CheesusPowerKid…interesting tag!..

I personally would not make sweeping generalizations about why some women want to be priests to generalize their motivation(s)…I have known some very genuine and good women (not Catholics, another faith profession) who felt genuinely and honestly that they had a call from God to be a priest. Just as quite often a woman will feel called to a religious order of nuns and not be able really to explain why…other than to state she feels called to the Order.

Personally I have never known a Catholic woman who wanted to be a Catholic priest (tho I know they exist etc.)… other faith professions - yes!

Send regards ,
Barb in Bethany, South Australia

 

[allhers]

Robert Bay:

Holy Orders is a sacrament, moving thread

I respectfully submit that this thread be CLOSED, as it is a CLOSED subject, not up for discussion even. Thank you.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

allhers:

I respectfully submit that this thread be CLOSED, as it is a CLOSED subject, not up for discussion even. Thank you.

Hi there allhers smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_144_6.gifThank you for your Post.

…I think it will be a sad and sorry, backward stepping day when any issue, doctrine etc. whatsoever in The Catholic Church cannot even be discussed. If we are going to be a missionary church and missionary is one of the four marks of Catholicism we need to have reasonable and logical explanations for others why we believe the things we believe. If we are content to state because The Church says it is so, I doubt we will be able to explain ourselves convincingly to others and convert them to a real interest in Catholicism and thus fulfill our missionary vocation. We need to understand why The Church says whatever is so! … and The Church ALWAYS has good, sound and logical reasons why she proclaims what she does, including Scriptural interpretation as her reason.

When Pope John XXlll announced Vatican2 he stated its purpose would be pastoral only and not to change Church doctrine. Pope Pius Vl affirmed this when he reconvened Vatican2 after Pope John’s death. I think John Paul ll it was who re-affirmed The Catholic Church would never have women priests. And I personally hold to this proclomation.
Pope John XXlll also stated that his desire for Vatican2 was to look to our missionary roots when The Church first began some 2005 years ago…it was a missionary Church with explanations to its times why it believed and proclaimed what it did and for the times then, convincing arguments, which is why The Church then was outstandingly succussful in her missionary endeavours…St. Paul was the explainer, I think, sin que non!!! (without equal).

The reason I started this thread 104 Posts ago was not because I questioned the teaching of The Church (or calling it into question)on women priests, but because I wanted to have a better understanding why The Church has pronounced that we shall never have women priests, and hence have a better understanding of the issue and be able to explain it to others should the issue arise…and especially with non Catholics.

I have now compiled a binder comprised of various Posts from this thread as to why The Catholic Church proclaims she will never have women priests…both for my own education and to hand to others to read should they be interested in the issue.

I think this thread, 104 posts on has been very productive, educational and interesting. Discussion on any subject I hold is positive since quite potentially educational and enlightening and since this is very potentially so, a general accross the board forbidding any subject from discussion is potentially harmful and at the very least negative.

But then bias is present, I started this thread!!!

Send regards ,
Barb in Bethany, South Australia

 

[BarbaraTherese]

stanley123:

Yes.
But in our area recently, I intended to go to a scheduled Mass, but instead, found myself at a “Communion Service” since the priest was not available. (I guess that is what it is called). The minister or presider or whatever she is called said the entire service, which was fairly long, and gave out the Holy Communion, which was supposedly consecrated a day or so ago by a Catholic priest. I was told that this type of service has the official approval of the RCC. I would be interested to know how you would feel about receiving communion from this lady in a Catholic Church Communion service officially approved by the Church.
It does look to me like the question of female Catholic priests has already been answered definitively in the negative, but I am not an expert in Church matters. Actually, not too long ago, a Catholic priest in our area, who was a rather intelligent professor at a prestigious college, oftentimes asserted his opinion that the RCC is way behind the times and that women should have been made priests a long time ago.

HI Stanley123

As I understand matters and broadly speaking, Holy Orders confers on the man, the power to administer six of the seven sacraments (Holy Orders is the power of a Catholic Bishop only as prior Vatican2 was Confirmation. A priest may now confer Confirmation). The six sacraments are: baptism, confirmation, reconciliation, Holy Communion, Matrimony and what used to be known anyway as Extreme Unction or the last sacrament before death. Holy Orders also confers the power to say The Mass and consecrate bread and wine into The Body and Blood of Christ. They are the powers conferred on the priest by the bishop at ordination or administration of Holy Orders one of the seven sacraments.

Outside of the above, The Church can confer on any member, male or female, of The Church whatsoever duties she sees fit to confer. Since Vatican2 and with our shortage of priests The Church instituted The Communion Service (as I picked up from another Post in this Thread, I dont like the title chosen either!..)…hence since it is lawfully instituted by The Church, in the absence of being able to attend Mass, which I far prefer, I have nothing against a Communion Service, be the minister of that service a lay male or female.

As to your final point in your Post re The Church keeping up with the times. The times can never dictate to The Church…but since The Church is missionary, she has the obligation to be relevant to the times…to interpret with some accuracy and proclaim to…which is not the meaning of keeping up with the times. The Church is relevant to the times if she absolutely criticizes and abhors what the times are presenting.

Keeping up with and relevance, I tend to think have two clearly distinct implications as to meaning.

The times are after all very much dictated to by the the common thinking in vogue…The Catholic Church is only dictated to by Scripture which is The Word of God.

I found your Post very interesting and provoking thought on my behalf…if nothing else (which your Post was not!) provoking thought in order to discern ones thoughts is productive, healthy and positive I think…also blows away cobwebs!!!

Send regards, Barb in Bethany
South Australia

 

[Rebecca_New]

God gave women the exact role to bear children. If He wanted absolute duplication of roles ; men would be capable of bearing children also.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

GoldenArrow:

I would absolutely REFUSE to receive a communion host consecrated by a female priest, as such an act would be tempting God to strike me down with a bolt of lightning for daring commit such sacrilege in the Holy of Holies. It would be like spitting in God’s face.

I’m still too much of a Traditionalist to accept women priests, and apparently, so is Pope Benedict XVI, for every woman that has defied him by being ordained has been excommunicated!

I don’t mean to sound so harsh by offending my fellow women, but as a woman myself, I have observed that the feminist movement has gone as far as it should go. I would like it to stop. I have no desire to have men and women so alike in occupation and role that we become an androgynous society. I like being a woman, and I like that men have “men roles” and women have “women roles.” I think it’s a man’s job to be a priest.

Also, Jesus is a dude, not a dudette, and the priesthood should reflect this by being only made up of dudes.

(Note: I’m not a hard-liner traditionalist, but am actually quite middle-of-the-road on most things).

Hello there GoldenArrow…

To quote from the above post:
"I would absolutely REFUSE to receive a communion host consecrated by a female priest, as such an act would be tempting God to strike me down with a bolt of lightning for daring commit such sacrilege in the Holy of Holies. It would be like spitting in God’s face."
It would also be an act risking eternal damnation if one realized and according to one’s consciencethat The Catholic Church forbids absolutely women priests…and eternity is one long time indeed!!!

"I’m still too much of a Traditionalist to accept women priests, and apparently, so is Pope Benedict XVI, for every woman that has defied him by being ordained has been excommunicated!"
It is absolutely impossible, anathema!, for a woman to be ordained legitimately a Catholic Priest…always has and always will be!
I think I am right in stating that a woman who has herself “ordained” and “says Mass” etc. is automatically excommunicating herself whether The Holy Father finds out about it or nay…or any Bishop too for that matter.

Regards - Barb
Bethany South Australia

 

[Curtiss]

I think that most of you are missing the point: a woman cannot be a priest because that is a male term. A woman would be a priestess! The God of Abraham, Isaac, Moses and Jesus has never been served by priestesses. This was one of the startling contrasts between Judiasm and other ancient religions. God has the right to choose who will serve Him. After the Exodus He appointed the followers of one and only one tribe to be priests and He dealt harshly with those who tried to countermand His will. Why should we question His will for His Church?

Now, we can speculate on why this choice was made but we will never know for sure until we stand before Him. My feeling is that He did this for the following reasons:

1. God has no gender but has chosen to reveal His relationship to man as one of Father to child. A male priesthood underlines this relationship.
2. Women, in general, have a nurturing nature and, while this is good and appropriate considering their role in bringing new life into the world, I think that it would lead to a desire to constantly be pulling up the moral stakes and moving them to accommodate more people. I personally believe that no religion that admits women to the ‘priesthood’ (or whatever it is called in a particular faith) will be recognizable a generation hence. Traditionally, men have been the custodians of the culture and women the custodians of life.

Keep the Faith!
Curtiss

 

[InnocentIII]

BarbaraTherese:

I think I am right in stating that a woman who has herself “ordained” and “says Mass” etc. is automatically excommunicating herself whether The Holy Father finds out about it or nay…or any Bishop too for that matter.
Regards - Barb
Bethany South Australia

Hi Barb

Just for your info the term is a latae sententiae excommunication and you are correct in your assumption. It is generally considered the most severe penalty that the church imposes not even requiring a hearing before a tribunal.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

InnocentIII:

Hi Barb

Just for your info the term is a latae sententiae excommunication and you are correct in your assumption. It is generally considered the most severe penalty that the church imposes not even requiring a hearing before a tribunal.

Hi Innocentlll - great to catch up with you again and too to discover that a complete stab in the dark from a decidedly faulty memory and on a matter of somewhat obscure Church Law was correct! Thank you too for the correct terminology.

Barb
Bethany, Sth. Aust.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Curtiss:

I think that most of you are missing the point: a woman cannot be a priest because that is a male term. A woman would be a priestess! The God of Abraham, Isaac, Moses and Jesus has never been served by priestesses. This was one of the startling contrasts between Judiasm and other ancient religions. God has the right to choose who will serve Him. After the Exodus He appointed the followers of one and only one tribe to be priests and He dealt harshly with those who tried to countermand His will. Why should we question His will for His Church?

Now, we can speculate on why this choice was made but we will never know for sure until we stand before Him. My feeling is that He did this for the following reasons:

1) God has no gender but has chosen to reveal His relationship to man as one of Father to child. A male priesthood underlines this relationship.

2) Women, in general, have a nurturing nature and, while this is good and appropriate considering their role in bringing new life into the world, I think that it would lead to a desire to constantly be pulling up the moral stakes and moving them to accommodate more people. I personally believe that no religion that admits women to the ‘priesthood’ (or whatever it is called in a particular faith) will be recognizable a generation hence. Traditionally, men have been the custodians of the culture and women the custodians of life.

Keep the Faith!
Curtiss

Hi Curtiss…I found your Post very interesting and liked a couple of points. I haven’t yet looked into Tech Support to remind me how to do the quote boxes, so please bear with me. From your Post above I have underscored in bold and in red the points to which I refer.

I thought your opening paragraph re priestess’s was an excellent point indeed and one I had not heard of before. Thank you!

Re God as Father from your 1)…I agree with you, I have always had a bit of a problem with God as mother…I dont dispute this only have problems with it personally. I have always referred to The Our Father…Jesus did say Father…not Father/Mother! Personally I just always think of God as male…though realizing in reality He has no gender. If all that makes sense. A quick edit … I guess and guess is operative that God in reality is all genders while transcending them?

Re your last paragraph and 2). This is your opinion and since we are all entitled to our own opinion it has validity as your opinion…as mine or any other persons would be. I subscribe to: “I may not be able to agree with what you are saying, but I will defend with my life your right to say it” and in my usual form really, have forgotten who said that famous quote!!!

Regards - Barb Sth. Aust.
PS Grace present I hope to keep the Faith!!!

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Just going back over recent Posts into this thread to refresh memory and would like to further qualify my Post #107 and I quote as follows:

QUOTE:"I would absolutely REFUSE to receive a communion host consecrated by a female priest, as such an act would be tempting God to strike me down with a bolt of lightning for daring commit such sacrilege in the Holy of Holies. It would be like spitting in God’s face."
It would also be an act risking eternal damnation if one realized and according to one’s consciencethat The Catholic Church forbids absolutely women priests…and eternity is one long time indeed!!! END QUOTE

Not only would such a person automatically excommunicate (latae sententiae excommunication - is the correct terminology…thank you Innocentlll for posting that info)herself by ‘being ordained’ and administering ‘communion’ but commits an especially heineous mortal sin by leading others into potential mortal sin if they are aware in conscience of The Church’s teaching in banning women priestess’s (thanks Curtiss…see his/her very recent Post re priest/priestess in this thread). I’m only just more or less realizing just how terrible, heinous, an act it is for a woman to be ‘ordained’ into priesthood and ‘minister’ in that role. No wonder The Church has declared women who have themselves ‘ordained’ are therby automatically excommunicated!!!

And, as a woman though no inclination whatsoever to be a priest/priestess, the dawning knowledge is very very humbling…to be honest even scarey… indeed! This I think illustrates my point in earlier Posts of the potential benefit of open discussion on even ‘banned subjects’ as it were

Barb, Sth. Aust.

 

[InnocentIII]

BarbaraTherese:

I subscribe to: “I may not be able to agree with what you are saying, but I will defend with my life your right to say it” and in my usual form really, have forgotten who said that famous quote!!!

Voltaire.

… or as one of my lecturers paraphrased it “I will defend with my life your right to be wrong”

 

[BarbaraTherese]

InnocentIII:

Voltaire.

… or as one of my lecturers paraphrased it “I will defend with my life your right to be wrong”

…Voltaire!..thanks yet again Innocentlll…by the way I really like your lecturer…where is he when I so often need him!!!

Regards - Barb, Sth.Aust.

 

[peacemakerny]

well, I don’t think women should be priest but I am so proud of this act for a reason that some will find weird or horrible. I think and this is my personal attitude , this, The Popes throughout history have tried to play God and with some success. The have tortured and murdered millions because they believed they had the Godly right to do as they pleased. How dare, a mere human tell me what I can and cannot do in my private life!! How dare a mere man tell me how as a woman, I am allowed to serve my Lord!! I do agree about aboration. But how dare a mere mortal man tell me that I can not practice birth control the way I want!!! There are things that the Pope says I agree with, I have always been horrified at how he thinks he has the ear of my Lord and no one else does. He thinks that a mere human can forgive my sins. I got news for him! Only Christ can forgive sins. When he dies, he is going to find out just how wrong all those popes have been and how many people he has hurt. The Vatician is richer than any organization or person on earth, and yet, they allow churches to be closed for lack of money in their area. People starve, and die of desease while the Vatican gets richer. Shame on them Women can be whatever they want, and no Pope is going to tell me different.

 

[Denis_Laplante]

Roma locuta est, causa finita est. - “Rome has spoken, the case is closed.” Why keep drumming this up? Time to move on.

BarbaraTherese asked how we feel about it… John Paul II said the question was settle for what he said was “definitive” and that it must be considered a part of what our faith teaches. So, no! the Church won’t turn back on this matter. So, my feeling is that we Catholics should obey it. Those who don’t want to, there are other denominations, but I don’t think that if you went there because of this mainly, that you would be following Christ in doing so. Quite the contrary, I’m afraid!

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Let me put this simply.

The Pope is against it. The Church is against it. I am against it.

 

[WSD]

Catholics are called to understanding and obediance in all of the Church’s Teachings, so if a person feels that Woman Priests are a good thing and that God’s will includes them, they are left with three options:

    1) Decide they are wrong and accept the doctrine of Male Priesthood on Faith.
    2) Leaved the Church and go to a denomination that agrees with their point of view.
    3) Obey the current doctrine and pray to God that his will be done for his Church.

I have the arguments back and forth on Woman priests for years. It always seems to come back to a point were advocates of Woman priests feel they are as qualified or more qualified than Men to be ordained. The simple truth is God does not call the qualified. He qualifies those he calls.
Peace
WSD

 

[AuntMartha]

The simple truth is God does not call the qualified. He qualifies those he calls.

Awesome!

 

[dan]

Forgive me if someone already posted this quote (I don’t feel like reading 8 pages!). I heard Father Corapi once address the topic of women priests rather eloquenty:

“I may never be a mother. You may never be a priest. GET OVER IT.”