women priests

[simpleas]

Why recently is it that when this topic comes up are posts removed from threads or the thread taken down?
I think much could be learnt by us (especially for myself).

Is it just to much of a “touchy” subject to be discussed by posters who are knowledgable on this topic, but then why would posters get so “upset” by it?

Thoughts.

Thanks

 

[cena]

Why recently is it that when this topic comes up are posts removed from threads or the thread taken down?
I think much could be learnt by us (especially for myself).

Is it just to much of a “touchy” subject to be discussed by posters who are knowledgable on this topic, but then why would posters get so “upset” by it?

Thoughts.

Thanks

Men and women are different, we have different natures. Our bodies are not the only difference.

 

[bisco]

i suspect that the only posts removed are the uncharitable ones. they may not be in the eyes of the poster, but it’s the mods call. like many subjects, it has been beaten from pillar to post, and church teacing is clear, but it can still be discussed by those who hold different opinions.

 

[hwriggles4]

Simpleas:

I sometimes contribute to this subject too. One thing that turns me off to many of the threads here is there are oftentimes rants, jabs, and finger pointing that occurs. I would like to see these rants greatly diminish.

Recently, I contributed to a thread about the shortage of men at Mass, and things really get construed, rants begin, and some contributors really add way too much TMI about themselves.

I don’t post here very often, but when I do, I try to stick to topics related to the following:

Church Teaching in order to help with catechesis

Men’s Ministry which is something I am involved with

Bishop appointments which is something I like to follow

Standing up for good priests

College and young adult type questions. I returned to the faith in part due to a good Catholic Student Center on a secular campus

Issues related to Catholic Singles

Now, to learn more about On Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men Alone, their is a short encyclical that was written by Pope John Paul II. This can be found on the Vatican website:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

The document can be easily printed on about four or five pages, so it is short and easy to read.

By the way, I never understood the Apostolic Succession until about 10 years ago when I attended a priestly ordination and witnessed the laying of hands. The website catholic-hierarchy.org/also helped me understand this as well.

Simpleas, thanks for your question. It was a good one, and a productive one.

 

[glendab]

Well, the Church did give an answer for this and closed the topic for Official discussion, so the Moderators not allowing talk about it may be trying in some way to reflect this however the discussions here at CAF are in no way anything close to official discussion and are simply talk. When the Moderators act, they aren’t acting under any real authority of the Church, so they may simply be applying the spirit of the law,sort of. The Church can no longer be asked about this officially by anyone. It is a closed subject. But those who believe that women should be ordained and are ordained and support those ordained and those ordaining them and preparing their own daughters to be woman priests when they grow up ARE talking. And they will continue to do so for as long as the problem remains.

This calls for an apologetic response and if no discussion with them is made, the apologetic won’t develop.

I agree that much can be learned by open discussion of the elephant in the room and it would be nice to know who and why some believe contrary to Church teaching that women can be ordained and that their ministry is a valid one. I watched one discussion of this at a Catholic College on Youtube from 2013 and they said that at that time there were over 120 women ordained in Canada and the US and that their numbers are growing almost daily. I for one would like to know who these women and their supporters are.

Glenda

 

[Tigg]

Why recently is it that when this topic comes up are posts removed from threads or the thread taken down?
I think much could be learnt by us (especially for myself).

Is it just to much of a “touchy” subject to be discussed by posters who are knowledgable on this topic, but then why would posters get so “upset” by it?

Thoughts.

Thanks

Touchy subject? I don’t think so. *Infallible *teaching by JP II in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis that it is definitively held the Church has no authority to ordain women? Yes.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/1994/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

I would question why this subject keeps coming up. I guess some don’t like the original answer which has been consistently upheld throughout the history of the Church.

 

[on_the_hill]

Probably because the threads can go on for page after page of unresolved/unresolvable debate, and eventually it devolves into personal attacks.

 

[edwest2]

Having been to a few womenpriest web sites, it appears that they are either using descriptions of events that they claim occurred during Biblical times or reinterpreting certain personalities and their roles to justify their desire to do what they do, or they simply reject what the Church clearly tells us. There is a large reference book that contains descriptions of hundreds of religions in the United States. So, regardless of what they call themselves, they can be considered a self-proclaimed religious group. No money would be needed, just enough people, via the internet, who believe as they do.

I think that’s all that really needs to be said.

Ed

 

[simpleas]

Thanks all for your replies.

I never really thought much about women priests until recently. A website I have been looking at provides information that has shown the way our church through the centuries has thought about the role of women in the church, and if all is correct at first I was shocked but then I would be, because of living in a different age. I can see how “attuides” have changed and where some are still the same.
When certain ways of doing things particularly for women has progressed I wondered why they had a certain way, why it was changed, and the possibilty of more progress.

It’s a shame when posters can not discuss a topic without getting too personal or attacking each other, I have an opened mind (not that I think anything goes) but I can see the two sides of every story.

 

[edwest2]

Thanks all for your replies.

I never really thought much about women priests until recently. A website I have been looking at provides information that has shown the way our church through the centuries has thought about the role of women in the church, and if all is correct at first I was shocked but then I would be, because of living in a different age. I can see how “attuides” have changed and where some are still the same.
When certain ways of doing things particularly for women has progressed I wondered why they had a certain way, why it was changed, and the possibilty of more progress.

It’s a shame when posters can not discuss a topic without getting too personal or attacking each other, I have an opened mind (not that I think anything goes) but I can see the two sides of every story.

As far as this particular subject, Pope John Paul II spoke definitively. Jesus, as God, chose men freely and without any restraints based on the time and culture He lived in. The Church has no authority to ordain women.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

I have an opened mind (not that I think anything goes) but I can see the two sides of every story.

Usually, I see two sides as well, but women priests? I don’t feel it’s right. That’s why there are nuns. When you’re in the religious life, I thought one was dedicating their life to God, not still affected by the worldly world and wanting “equality” for a little too far of reasons. To me, even women ministers I’ve seen (not in real life) look a little out-of-place. It’s like, it should be a man standing there. Why do women still want to be men? I love being a woman. God made us. Male and female, He made us. Isn’t that good enough?

 

[Jerurussia]

The Catholic Church has closed discussion on priestesses, as well she might 'cause it’s just a fact there have never been priestesses. So let’s move on to the past and look at the sacrificial priesthood. No women. Why? Listen closely…

MEN ONLY CAN ATONE FOR THE “SIN OF ADAM.”

ONLY SOME MEN CAN ATONE FOR THE “SIN OF ADAM” AS CAIN FOUND OUT.

WHEN ADAM ATE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT, SIN AND DEATH CAME INTO THE WORLD BECAUSE HE BETRAYED HIS SACRED OFFICE.
ORIGINAL SIN, THE “SIN OF ADAM” IS NOT WOMAN’S PROBLEM.

FEEDBACK, PLEASE.

P.S. The ladies involved in this escapade have some gender-identity issues. The Lutheran “priestess” hosting the faux ordination is an avowed mutual mono-sexual, as Father Z. notes.

WOMAN & SEED were given their own, separate and distinct mandate of divine power and authority to crush Satan’s lying, murdering snake noggin. Do thou so. Prayer, fasting and almsgiving are the ideal foundation.

 

[cena]

The Catholic Church has closed discussion on priestesses, as well she might 'cause it’s just a fact there have never been priestesses. So let’s move on to the past and look at the sacrificial priesthood. No women. Why? Listen closely…

MEN ONLY CAN ATONE FOR THE “SIN OF ADAM.”

ONLY SOME MEN CAN ATONE FOR THE “SIN OF ADAM” AS CAIN FOUND OUT.

WHEN ADAM ATE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT, SIN AND DEATH CAME INTO THE WORLD BECAUSE HE BETRAYED HIS SACRED OFFICE.
ORIGINAL SIN, THE “SIN OF ADAM” IS NOT WOMAN’S PROBLEM.

FEEDBACK, PLEASE.

P.S. The ladies involved in this escapade have some gender-identity issues. The Lutheran “priestess” hosting the faux ordination is an avowed mutual mono-sexual, as Father Z. notes.

WOMAN & SEED were given their own, separate and distinct mandate of divine power and authority to crush Satan’s lying, murdering snake noggin. Do thou so. Prayer, fasting and almsgiving are the ideal foundation.

I don’t think that’s why. Eve ate the fruit and convinced Adam to eat it. I think her sin is worse

 

[marymary1975]

Well, the Church did give an answer for this and closed the topic for Official discussion, so the Moderators not allowing talk about it may be trying in some way to reflect this however the discussions here at CAF are in no way anything close to official discussion and are simply talk. When the Moderators act, they aren’t acting under any real authority of the Church, so they may simply be applying the spirit of the law,sort of. The Church can no longer be asked about this officially by anyone. It is a closed subject. But those who believe that women should be ordained and are ordained and support those ordained and those ordaining them and preparing their own daughters to be woman priests when they grow up ARE talking. And they will continue to do so for as long as the problem remains.

Glenda

I think Glenda is completely right. This issue I’d one that has been officially closed by the church and there will be - from a theological standpoint - no more discussion about it.

I think that part of the problem is that some people want to push the issue further and if course like other hot topics, people get heated up very quickly. Also I guess from a moderator standpoint allowing certain discussion as if the issue were open that may confused a third person, may not be wise so I think the minute people gets heated up moderators will close.

I would like also too try to understand the logic of these women and people pushing for it behind but unfortunately sometimes is very difficult to discuss the issue with them.

 

[cycleman]

Is the statement by JP II that the church has no authority to ordain women priests actually considered an infallible teaching?

As far as I know, that statement was not proclaimed ex cathedra nor was it proclaimed by all of the bishops in some type of ecumenical council. The bar is set very very high for something to be considered infallible and it just doesn’t seem like this statement qualifies.

There certainly is no desire by the church to consider the question further at this point, but is it truly precluded from ever being considered in the future?

 

[glendab]

Hello Cycleman.

Please read this: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

It will help you understand. Pay close attention to paragraph 4.

Glenda

 

[simpleas]

Usually, I see two sides as well, but women priests? I don’t feel it’s right. That’s why there are nuns. When you’re in the religious life, I thought one was dedicating their life to God, not still affected by the worldly world and wanting “equality” for a little too far of reasons. To me, even women ministers I’ve seen (not in real life) look a little out-of-place. It’s like, it should be a man standing there. Why do women still want to be men? I love being a woman. God made us. Male and female, He made us. Isn’t that good enough?

Thanks

You don’t feel it’s right, why not? I understand what you mean when you have seen a women in a priest attire, when I have seen them in person I often think they should have priestess attire rather than a priests, so they don’t look like they are trying to act like a man.
I don’t think it has to do with women trying to be men, it’s more of a spiritual need. We could make it out to be some women crying out for equality, (what men do women should also be allowed to do) But it did make me think when I read about male and female are both made in the image of Christ. Then there is the long history of how females were viewed in relation to males.

Women had to cover their heads and hands in church, men would take off their hats. Why? The answer I found was because men are made in the image of Christ and women are not. Women also were thought unclean during menstruation so could not approach the altar. I knew this was a jewish custom of uncleanness but didn’t know or have yet to be corrected if it was a custom of the Catholic church.

There are other things that did make me think, although I maybe wasting my time trying to find answers here, because the thread could be closed, that is unless posters can politely engage in the conversation?

 

[Tigg]

Is the statement by JP II that the church has no authority to ordain women priests actually considered an infallible teaching?

As far as I know, that statement was not proclaimed ex cathedra nor was it proclaimed by all of the bishops in some type of ecumenical council. The bar is set very very high for something to be considered infallible and it just doesn’t seem like this statement qualifies.

There certainly is no desire by the church to consider the question further at this point, but is it truly precluded from ever being considered in the future?

Yes. Here’s another source which will help you understand:

jimmyakin.com/library/womens-ordination-its-infallible

I think the key words spoken by JP II is “must be definitively held by the faithful.”

 

[Tigg]

Thanks

You don’t feel it’s right, why not? I understand what you mean when you have seen a women in a priest attire, when I have seen them in person I often think they should have priestess attire rather than a priests, so they don’t look like they are trying to act like a man.
I don’t think it has to do with women trying to be men, it’s more of a spiritual need. We could make it out to be some women crying out for equality, (what men do women should also be allowed to do) But it did make me think when I read about male and female are both made in the image of Christ.

You really should read Peter Kreeft’s book, “Women and the Priesthood” which gives solid theological explanation for the reasons why it simply cannot be.

Then there is the long history of how females were viewed in relation to males.

Kreeft also explains the sexual symbolism which might help you understand things from the Church’s perspective:

Advocates of women’s ordination usually misunderstand sexual symbolism because they misunderstand symbolism itself as radically as they misunderstand authority. They think of symbols as man-made and artificial. They do not see that there are profound and unchangeable natural symbols, that things can be signs.

peterkreeft.com/topics-more/sexual-symbolism.htm

 

[Catholic_farmer]

If women were supposed to be priests, why didn’t Jesus make his Mother one of His apostles? She had a very important human role, but not as an apostle nor was she given the ‘keys to the kingdom’, despite her obvious wisdom and grace.