Women Required To Cover Head, Vatican Insists

[LilyM]

And then its not even offical Church discipline for the whole Catholic Church, just the Latin Catholic Church.

True indeed, ByzCath, you lucky Eastern Catholic you

 

[KCT]

Hence, according to Canon Law and immemorial custom, women are still to veil themselves.

I’ve been to Rome 3 times in recent years. Why were we not told - in Rome at Mass w/ the Pope, to veil ourselves? Is even the Holy Father not aware of this requirement? —KCT

 

[itsjustdave1988]

…only when this is made explicit

The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith has stated, explicitly, with regard to head coverings:

**INTER INSIGNIORES, 15 Oct 1976
Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

…it must be noted that these ordinances [of Scripture], probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on the head (1 Cor 11:2-6); such requirements no longer have a normative value.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Every time somebody who has not been on CAF with a lot of posts comes in (24? 46?) and tries to forcibly cover the heads of Catholic women- usually with black lacey veils, which was never the requirement, but some men seem to love the whole black lacey thing- this is what happens:

• Somebody explains that the 1917 Code has been abrogated.
• The poster defends his position by stating that it hasn’t.
• The newspaper article from 30-some-odd years ago is used as a reference.
• Somebody tries to explain that St. Paul wrote in reference to his times and culture. Some have tried to bring about the history of head covering, how different different cultures have interpreted over time, the lacey veil was once seen as insufficient in the US, etc.
• The charity level on that thread drops to nil. The OP (original poster) gets bent out of shape.
• There are a few more verbal scirmishes.
• The moderator closes the thread for lack of charity.
• Another thread is opened, and all the women agree that those who are called to wear a head covering while in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament should do so and be charitable to those who do not; while those who are not called to do so are certainly free to do without a head covering, but should be charitable to those who are called to do so.

My suggestion: If you are truly interested in researching the matter, use the “search” feature here on CAF and take a gander at the umteezillion threads on the subject.

In addition to the eminent Deacon Lansing (and he is as top-notch as they come!), you might check out Jimmy Akin’s personal blog (you might have noticed- he’s the chief apologist here), as well as Colin Donovan on EWTN. These two stellar Catholic gentlemen also state that while a lovely pious practice, no female is required to cover her head in church.

 

[YachtsMan]

I honestly think the first posting may have been an attempt at parody…

 

[homewardbound]

I think head covering is up to the person.

What I find disgusting is that people will be looked down upon for doing so.

For all of you out there too ignorant to realize it just might be something God wants people to do: Go learn some stuff yourself instead of only EVER relying on society aka the WORLD who knows nothing of God to tell you everything about your own faith.

God has COMMANDED me to cover my head during Mass. Its something I know without a doubt he wants me to do in obediance and humility towards him. If you feiminist so called “Christians” are going to spend your Mass dwelling on those who choose to wear veils and judging them just because they do so then…dang. You’re just sickening and definitely part of the problem with why so many people refuse to choose the path of Christianity. Talk about hypocrisy. To judge those who are simply attempting to obey what God wants them to do. You don’t want to or feel God wants you to…than don’t. But maybe try to actually act like a Christian and realize not everyone is you.(Thank the Lord)

 

[Saint_Michael]

Every time somebody who has not been on CAF with a lot of posts comes in (24? 46?)

Not for nothing but there was a huge crash which lost thousands of posts, many people who had hundreds of posts had to re-register. The topic was fine, not sure what you just offered with your patronizing diatribe (how’s that for degenrating charity? Just following your lead I guess)…

Catholic Knight and myself were plenty charitable, I didn’t really see anyone in here uncharitable but you. You were also not very charitable in the Santa Claus thread to me. I suggest you heed your own advice, don’t bother responding I’m going to put you on my ignore list, and I suggest you do the same.

 

[lak611]

I think head covering is up to the person.

What I find disgusting is that people will be looked down upon for doing so.

For all of you out there too ignorant to realize it just might be something God wants people to do: Go learn some stuff yourself instead of only EVER relying on society aka the WORLD who knows nothing of God to tell you everything about your own faith.

God has COMMANDED me to cover my head during Mass. Its something I know without a doubt he wants me to do in obediance and humility towards him. If you feiminist so called “Christians” are going to spend your Mass dwelling on those who choose to wear veils and judging them just because they do so then…dang. You’re just sickening and definitely part of the problem with why so many people refuse to choose the path of Christianity. Talk about hypocrisy. To judge those who are simply attempting to obey what God wants them to do. You don’t want to or feel God wants you to…than don’t. But maybe try to actually act like a Christian and realize not everyone is you.(Thank the Lord)

Yes I agree that head covering is up to the person, and I will not put down anybody who chooses to do it, but don’t tell me I am a “so-called Christian” because I do not cover my head. That is uncharitable. Besides, if you say that it is up to the person, why the hostility toward me if I choose not to?

 

[Lady_Cygnus]

It’s an interesting dynamic how up in arms some people are getting at Catholic Knight over this issue.

I think we all can agree that this appears to be a custom used in the Church for around 1,960 years, and has recently been abandoned.

CK has every right to question ‘why?’. I think it’s at least valid to point out and wonder why head coverings are no longer a requirement, after being one for so long.

Is it womens’ lib that ushered them out? Or is it just not seem important for the laity to wear them anymore while in Church?

And to women, do you find it offensive to be told to wear head coverings?

I say Paul said it, so we should do it, I don’t care if that sounds “Protestant” or not, I don’t think it does personally though.

I guess that’s a good question for Bible believing protestants, why don’t they requre it?

It really does look as if the Vatican needs to clarify this matter

Personally I like wearing a head covering, but only during private adoration. During mass it stands out too much and I’ve noticed that it tends to be a distraction for the other people around me and an occasion to sin since it makes some think I’m sanctimonious and reminds others that most women choose not to wear it anymore - and they become sanctimonious. So to help those who have a weaker faith, I choose to only wear it when I’m alone with the Lord.

Ok, perhaps there is the ulterior motive that it’s because I’m a bit shy and don’t want everyone staring at me

 

[Saint_Michael]

Ok, perhaps there is the ulterior motive that it’s because I’m a bit shy and don’t want everyone staring at me

I can understand that, I don’t even bring my nice Missal because it attracted too many stares…

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I think head covering is up to the person.

What I find disgusting is that people will be looked down upon for doing so.

For all of you out there too ignorant to realize it just might be something God wants people to do: Go learn some stuff yourself instead of only EVER relying on society aka the WORLD who knows nothing of God to tell you everything about your own faith.

God has COMMANDED me to cover my head during Mass. Its something I know without a doubt he wants me to do in obediance and humility towards him. If you feiminist so called “Christians” are going to spend your Mass dwelling on those who choose to wear veils and judging them just because they do so then…dang. You’re just sickening and definitely part of the problem with why so many people refuse to choose the path of Christianity. Talk about hypocrisy. To judge those who are simply attempting to obey what God wants them to do. You don’t want to or feel God wants you to…than don’t. But maybe try to actually act like a Christian and realize not everyone is you.(Thank the Lord)

Nobody here said you couldn’t wear a head covering. It is a lovely pious practice. It is simply NOT required.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Not for nothing but there was a huge crash which lost thousands of posts, many people who had hundreds of posts had to re-register. The topic was fine, not sure what you just offered with your patronizing diatribe (how’s that for degenrating charity? Just following your lead I guess)…

Catholic Knight and myself were plenty charitable, I didn’t really see anyone in here uncharitable but you. You were also not very charitable in the Santa Claus thread to me. I suggest you heed your own advice, don’t bother responding I’m going to put you on my ignore list, and I suggest you do the same.

::sigh:: I meet the CAF requirements. I am certainly not out to be uncharitable. Inn over 1200 posts I’ve never gotten so much as a warning. I was merely relating what goes on when this topic comes up, and you have proven me correct. I was not being condescending in any thread. I was stating my viewpoint.

Young man, you don’t like me. I guess the best thing to do is avoid you. I shall do so.

 

[MaryAgnes]

Or could it be there is a deeper reason behind the loss of this custom? Could it be that our feminist society has told Catholic women that covering the head is “something bad,” that represents “male dominance” and “submission to men?” Could it be that feminist society has influenced our women through peer pressure, to adopt the attitudes of the secular world in our celebration of the mass? I think it’s a question that begs further investigation.

Or … could it be that some women just don’t like to wear hats? I remember a time when women wore hats and gloves and dresses and high heels —
and I doubt it was to show “submission to men”!

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Or … could it be that some women just don’t like to wear hats? I remember a time when women wore hats and gloves and dresses and high heels —
and I doubt it was to show “submission to men”!

Agreed Mary Agnes.

 

[slyboots]

I do think it’s interesting. I tell folks on this thread that I wear my veil because God has laid it upon me as a discipline. And that if he hasn’t laid it on your hearts it probably isn’t a discipline for you. Maybe as Maria1 said. Maybe it’s because of my strong willed spirit that He put it on me. But still somehow folks think that I as a person with a scarf on my head will think less of a woman bcause she doesn’t have one on.
Know I am not and will not condemn you for wearing or not wearing a veil.
At this point the Church has clearly not condemned you either.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Well I can’t disagree with that. However, the question begs to be asked as to whether this really has anything to do with women no longer veiling their heads in public. For example; bowing before royalty and civil magistrates left our culture hundreds of years ago. However, Catholics still bow (genuflect) before the blessed sacrament. So if bowing is no longer a custom in our culture, than why do Catholics bow (genuflect) before the sacrament? If the cultural norms affect our religious practice in one are, than why not the other?

Or could it be there is a deeper reason behind the loss of this custom? Could it be that our feminist society has told Catholic women that covering the head is “something bad,” that represents “male dominance” and “submission to men?” Could it be that feminist society has influenced our women through peer pressure, to adopt the attitudes of the secular world in our celebration of the mass? I think it’s a question that begs further investigation.

Knight,

While we’re on the subject of custom immemorial, with which you appear to be so concerned, it seems to me that such custom - certainly in the English language, includes capitalization of references to the Blessed Sacrament.

Many years,

Neil

 

[catholicknight]

The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith has stated, explicitly, with regard to head coverings:

***INTER INSIGNIORES, ***15 Oct 1976
Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

Dave,

I think you just settled this matter. Thank you for that. It’s nice to know Rome has directly addressed the topic.

It is interesting to note, that when one attends a Tridentine mass the head covering is almost universal, while it is the exception to the norm in the Novus Ordo. That being the case, it would appear that women who participate in the Tridentine place a higher spiritual emphasis on this custom than Novus Ordo women do.

I seriously wonder if the Church isn’t throwing the baby out with the bath water on this one. Keep in mind, that I never said I thought the Church should make the head coverings mandatory again. Rather, I was under the impression that any new policy on the matter should have been specifically spelled out in the 1983 Code of Canon Law. As others have pointed out in this thread, I was mistaken.

Nevertheless, since it doesn’t appear to be mandatory anymore, and Canon Law no longer applies to the situation, I seriously wonder if the Church should reassess the situation in light of Traditionalist women who refuse to give up the custom, and of course the writings of St. Paul (1st Corinthians 11). Perhaps a Vatican commendation of some sort is in order, explaining the spiritual significance of such customs, should women decide to practice them. It would do a lot to clear up confusion on this matter once and for all.

 

[catholicknight]

ATTENTION:

As the one who started this thread, I wish to appeal to everyone’s charity in this subject matter. I enjoy a good debate, and I like to heat things up a little, but I don’t want to see anybody getting bent out of shape on this one.

I raised an important topic that really does need to be further discussed and defined by the Vatican. I also got my butt kicked in the debate, because some of those who opposed my position were better armed with the facts than I was. So I learned something new here today. My opinion on the matter has changed a little now, even though I still feel very strongly about it.

My point here is that we can all agree to disagree on this if we have to, and I really think we each have a lot to add to the discussion if we can speak freely without getting too emotional about it. I learned something here today. Anybody else? Care to share what it was?

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

"OutinChgoburbs:

My suggestion: If you are truly interested in researching the matter, use the “search” feature here on CAF and take a gander at the umteezillion threads on the subject.

I imagine many of those threads may have been lost during the recent troubles with the fourm.

There was a mention of women wearing head coverings to show submission to her husband or father. That is unrealistic in many cases. I am a single woman and do not live with my parents. They do not attend my parish. I do not have a man in my family that I need to submit too.

That’s the same boat I fall into. The only male in my household is a cat; he’s a lovely animal, but I don’t think I’m called to submit to him.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I raised an important topic that really does need to be further discussed and defined by the Vatican. I also got my butt kicked in the debate, because some of those who opposed my position were better armed with the facts than I was. So I learned something new here today. My opinion on the matter has changed a little now, even though I still feel very strongly about it.

My point here is that we can all agree to disagree on this if we have to, and I really think we each have a lot to add to the discussion if we can speak freely without getting too emotional about it. I learned something here today. Anybody else? Care to share what it was?

Actually, it doesn’t NEED to be further discussed or defined by the Vatican…see Dave’s post. It CAN be further discussed, but it doesn’t need to be. And if it IS to be, perhaps those initiating the conversation should be in better command of the facts (not to mention possessed of a greater humility), instead of starting their opening threads with “Yes, even the Vatican insists that women are still required to cover their heads during mass” esp. since it’s patently untrue. It’s like the silly and oft-repeated misinformation that one cannot receive Communion in the hand at the Holy See. One can, and from the hand of the Holy Father himself.

One of the most cogent suggestions in this thread has been offered by OutinChgoburbs: do a search before you initiate a thread and see times your topic has been addressed. Then ask yourself, “Do I have anything new to contribute? Or do I simply want to sound off in admiration of my own self?”