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Scotty_PGH
Guest
LOL! What a shame you fail to see the irony in this statement!
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paramedicgirl
Guest
I wonder if anyone else sees the division Satan is causing among women over this matter of who wears a veil. Satan always wins when he causes us to focus more on each other than on God. He must be kicking back having a good laugh right about now.
I personally do not wear a veil, but I see it as a sign of humility in those who do. I don’t see how wearing a veil can distract other women from the Mass either. If that’s the case, then God is using it as a test to sanctify you.
One poster wondered how young women get the idea to wear a veil. Well, young women can be humble, too. It would be fruitful if those who take issue with others who wear a veil would stop looking at the veil as a public statement of their holiness and consider it as an inward gesture of their humbleness.
I personally do not wear a veil, but I see it as a sign of humility in those who do. I don’t see how wearing a veil can distract other women from the Mass either. If that’s the case, then God is using it as a test to sanctify you.
One poster wondered how young women get the idea to wear a veil. Well, young women can be humble, too. It would be fruitful if those who take issue with others who wear a veil would stop looking at the veil as a public statement of their holiness and consider it as an inward gesture of their humbleness.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Nan S:
A kleenex.
I never lost my veil again.
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thistle
Guest
I’m a man so forgive me if I’m a bit naive about what is being discussed but it seems to be everything except a veil. The original poster is asking about wearing a veil. I assume that refers to something covering the face completely or only leaving the eyes showing.
Not being a fashion expert I would say that what Mary is portayed wearing on statues and in paintings is a head scarf or head covering, quite long down the back hiding her hair.
Is my understanding of a veil and head scarf correct?
Not being a fashion expert I would say that what Mary is portayed wearing on statues and in paintings is a head scarf or head covering, quite long down the back hiding her hair.
Is my understanding of a veil and head scarf correct?
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puzzleannie
Guest
this topic has been done to death here, and for a good article on why such bickering is wrong check out
spiritdaily.com/abelreligiousspirits.htm
on the damage done to the Church when the faithful engage in such arguments and bitter debate about inconsequential details.
spiritdaily.com/abelreligiousspirits.htm
on the damage done to the Church when the faithful engage in such arguments and bitter debate about inconsequential details.
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netmilsmom
Guest
1Co 11:5 but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head–it is the same as if her head were shaven.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Inward gestures are just that - inward.
A veil is a public outward gesture.
I was questioning the need to make such an outward gesture for something which is private between the person and God.
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netmilsmom
Guest
A chapel cap is demure. A brown one is almost invisible on a brunette.
I wear a chapel cap and a scapular. Both are mostly unseen.
Perhaps those of us who would like to cover our heads but would like it to remain personal should start with something smaller. A wider headband is used by some in those Christian communites that cover heads. Jewish women use wigs. All of this covers your head. It doesn’t have to be a veil. The idea is covering your head. I even think that Julliet caps, available for weddings in the 70’s can be gotten on the internet. Cover them with material matching your dress with a glue gun. They are very small and could become the fashion in your parish.
There are some good crochet patterns for small doilies. Match it to your hair. Problem solved.
If anyone is looking sooooo hard at you to see a chapel cap matched to your hair, dismiss them. It’s between you and God anyway.
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YinYangMom
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
So what is the deal with wanting to cover your head though? I still don’t get it. God gave you the head you have, why cover it at all?
Quite interesting.
So what is the deal with wanting to cover your head though? I still don’t get it. God gave you the head you have, why cover it at all?
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cargopilot
Guest
Just to keep the record straight, my reason for starting this thread was less about veiling (I don’t mind, one way or the other), but more about the way women treat each other.
I’ve actually witnessed a slightly less than ‘popular’ female in our Church systematically get trashed by the other females who were higher in the ‘pecking order’ for wearing a veil to Church. The ‘leader’ turned the others on her and made her an outcast. It was cold, calculated and ruthless. I felt so sorry for her. No offense, but females can be really mean. I see it clearly, right here. Those who express any interest are quickly ‘smacked-down’ with the most hurtful remarks.
Without a doubt, there is an albiet small cadre of women who seem called to wear some kind of headcovering, and have even rallied for Oct 2nd. I honor and respect you. You are brave and I wish you well. But beware, I have no doubt that other females WILL gossip about you, and worse. I would warn you, before you decide to wear a veil to Mass, consider what you could loose. You might find yourself very lonely.
I would recommend only the females that are the highest in the local ‘pecking order’ to attempt this. While they are the ones with the most to loose, they are the ones who could actually pull it off.
I’m thankful males don’t do this kind of warfare. I’m sorry my daughter has this kind of behavoir to look forward to.
I’ve actually witnessed a slightly less than ‘popular’ female in our Church systematically get trashed by the other females who were higher in the ‘pecking order’ for wearing a veil to Church. The ‘leader’ turned the others on her and made her an outcast. It was cold, calculated and ruthless. I felt so sorry for her. No offense, but females can be really mean. I see it clearly, right here. Those who express any interest are quickly ‘smacked-down’ with the most hurtful remarks.
Without a doubt, there is an albiet small cadre of women who seem called to wear some kind of headcovering, and have even rallied for Oct 2nd. I honor and respect you. You are brave and I wish you well. But beware, I have no doubt that other females WILL gossip about you, and worse. I would warn you, before you decide to wear a veil to Mass, consider what you could loose. You might find yourself very lonely.
I would recommend only the females that are the highest in the local ‘pecking order’ to attempt this. While they are the ones with the most to loose, they are the ones who could actually pull it off.
I’m thankful males don’t do this kind of warfare. I’m sorry my daughter has this kind of behavoir to look forward to.
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YinYangMom
Guest
You know, women have always been catty, and I suppose they always will. Work in the elementary schools and it will astound you how early it begins - 4th grade seems to get a huge spurt of nastiness which tapers off around 8th grade, but by then they switch from the gossip mills to actually doing things to make another person miserable. One of the most heart wrenching stages of my life was helping my daughter understand the ostracizing she was getting for no reason. One day she’d be included in the 4th grade circle of girls. The next, everyone would shun her for weeks, then out of the blue the lead girl brings her back into the circle as if nothing had happened and everything’s rosey for a couple of weeks and then she’s outcasted again for no reason. She endured it about 4 times until she finally recognized the girl was troubled and not worth the effort. But in between, wow, as a mom, my heart broke and I had to teach her a hard lesson in life that I wish could have waited for several more years. Kids should get to be kids but behavior like this makes them grow up so fast.
It’s sad that these women consider themselves so devoutly Christian or Catholic when they carry these attitudes, but we can only keep praying for them. May they one day here the scriptures and actually recognize themselve in the parables…until then, they probably conjure up names of everyone else in the parish the story applies to except them.
I am teaching my 8th grade RE students to 1) stop the gossip mills by not participating in them and 2) if they have the courage, to speak out against the rumor mills when they can. As part of the ‘thou shalt not covet’ commandments this is where I address this type of behavior. If they don’t have the courage I ask them to pray for it for the next time, but at the very least, I ask them to not participate in these type of discussions - even if it means walking away from the group.
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HelpingHands
Guest
I’ve been followng this discussion for some time.
Let me just say that if someone wears a veil or head covering, or any other apparel, I think they should try to not worry about what others are thinking.
Also, if someone sees someone wearing a veil, headscarf, or any other apparel, they ought to try and let it pass out of their mind without mental comment to themselves, if possible.
In short, people in church ought to try not to feel self consious if at all possible. Keep in mind that other people might be scrutinizing them about this, that, or the other. If it’s not about their apparel, it might be about their body type, their hair style, their prayer posture, Unfortunately, people get distracted by others in church. People like to draw conclusions about others based on what they see.
And those of you prone to scrutinizing others, please try and stop it. I know it’s hard. I’m a people watcher myself. I’ve had the most distracting thoughts during Mass, even as far as speculating about a couple’s sex life! Sometimes I just have to close my eyes because it’s such a tendency!
That’s why daily Mass is such a blessing. Less distractions! So, go to daily Mass. But, at the Sunday Mass, the fact of the matter is that many people are checking one another out and will notice anything unusual, and will try and draw conclusions about what they see. It’s part of our fallen, sinful natures…
Let me just say that if someone wears a veil or head covering, or any other apparel, I think they should try to not worry about what others are thinking.
Also, if someone sees someone wearing a veil, headscarf, or any other apparel, they ought to try and let it pass out of their mind without mental comment to themselves, if possible.
In short, people in church ought to try not to feel self consious if at all possible. Keep in mind that other people might be scrutinizing them about this, that, or the other. If it’s not about their apparel, it might be about their body type, their hair style, their prayer posture, Unfortunately, people get distracted by others in church. People like to draw conclusions about others based on what they see.
And those of you prone to scrutinizing others, please try and stop it. I know it’s hard. I’m a people watcher myself. I’ve had the most distracting thoughts during Mass, even as far as speculating about a couple’s sex life! Sometimes I just have to close my eyes because it’s such a tendency!
That’s why daily Mass is such a blessing. Less distractions! So, go to daily Mass. But, at the Sunday Mass, the fact of the matter is that many people are checking one another out and will notice anything unusual, and will try and draw conclusions about what they see. It’s part of our fallen, sinful natures…
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paramedicgirl
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
But wearing a veil is not a fashion statement. And I do believe the desire for humility comes from the soul. The veil is an outward sign of that interior humility.
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Patchunky
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
The custom of shaving the bride’s head was instituted to make her ugly for the noble. She would then wear a wig in public and let her hair grow back for her husband but still keeps it cut short.
You will not find this custom among Sephardic Jews or Middle Eastern Jews and often not among the Jews from Western Europe.
Hope this helps…
This custom is only found among the Hassidic Jewish women from Central and Eastern Europe. It’s from a time when the local nobles had the RIGHT to be the 1st male to have sexual relations with a virgin bride.
The custom of shaving the bride’s head was instituted to make her ugly for the noble. She would then wear a wig in public and let her hair grow back for her husband but still keeps it cut short.
You will not find this custom among Sephardic Jews or Middle Eastern Jews and often not among the Jews from Western Europe.
Hope this helps…
B
bear06
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
Do you wear a veil whenever you pray? It seems that people always throw this verse out but don’t actually follow it to the “T”.
Also, I think it’s funny that below this verse is this one:
If a woman is given her hair for a covering then isn’t she covered?
Really, this whole little conversation seems a little silly. Why are we paying so much attention to what everyone else is doing? If women want to where a mantilla, that’s between them and God. If they are doing it for the wrong reason, that’s really between them and God. It certainly doesn’t effect my life. I think, like anything else, nobody wants to be told by other people what God wants them to do. I think this is really from where the hostility comes. On one side you’ve got those who are told that they are less holy for not wearing one and on the other side you got those who are told they’re trying to be holier than thou. God will be the judge of each of us on this issue. Why don’t we stop trying to do His job?!
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4HisChurch
Guest
I totally understand what you are saying here. I greatly respect women who wear head coverings of whatever kind to church.
I do hate the fact that there is a “pecking order” in churches though. I know people who have left the Church, or tried “denomination hopping” in the attempt to get away from this.
Its very sad.
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4HisChurch
Guest
Nan S:
As I said in my other post, I respect women who cover their heads in church. But, in light of this picture and post, I wonder if a movement to stick to a “modest” dress code of sorts would be more fruitful in today’s society…
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netmilsmom
Guest
See post #64.
It is to honor one’s head, that is, my husband.
I am praying he will convert.
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netmilsmom
Guest
I really never said it was all Jewish women, I said those that cover their heads.
I have a friend, right here in MI who covers her head with a wig. Although I really do love to know the backround of this, my statement was not meant to speak for all Jewish women.
I’m sorry if I made it sound that way.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Why yes, I do.
My chapel cap is next to my Rosary and Bible.
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