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Zundrah
Guest
I’ve been trying to find a verse where I think it was John who said something like “I stress not a women to teach” or something similar. It came to my mind just now but I can’t remember where it is.
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FooFee
Guest
1 Timothy 2 , verses 9-15 I hope that is what you were looking for.
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Zundrah
Guest
Yes, this is what I was looking for. Thank you.
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donsnow
Guest
Good afternoon, Zundrah,
There’s also one in one of Paul’s letters, but I can’t remember which one. He said women should not speak in church, but can teach at home.
God loves you,
Don
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Anniejoe
Guest
I believe St. Paul says women shouldn’t be teachers over men, not that they shouldn’t teach.
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Zundrah
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donsnow
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Good afternoon, Zundrah,
Yes, ma’am, that’s the very one.
It never bothers me when the lay Reader at Mass is a woman. So, I guess I’m not a follower of Paul.
God loves you,
Don
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steve53
Guest
Isn’t the Catholic Church with the adoration of Mary really making a feminist statement- and fifteen hundred years before today’s “modern” feminist movement?
Eve caused the downfall of man.
To counter that, the Church elevated Mary to almost divine status.
The message is that women are equal with men when it comes to potential for salvation.
Pretty slick, I would say.
Eve caused the downfall of man.
To counter that, the Church elevated Mary to almost divine status.
The message is that women are equal with men when it comes to potential for salvation.
Pretty slick, I would say.
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johnnyjones
Guest
Eve blamed the serpent then Adam blamed the woman (Eve). Jesus was the “second” Adam an was refered to as that in the New Testament. The scriptures always view a man and a woman as equal in the site of God.
It is very interesting how this is explained. “The man is the head of the woman” and “God is the head of Christ”. Christ and God are equal. Man and woman are equal in essence, as well so are God and Christ. They just have different roles.
As far as Mary. If the woman housed in her body the God/man, Jesus Christ and birthed him into this world, that’s way up there. Nothing slick, just stunningly awesome. So no, Eve did not cause the downfall of man, both Adam and Eve did.
It is very interesting how this is explained. “The man is the head of the woman” and “God is the head of Christ”. Christ and God are equal. Man and woman are equal in essence, as well so are God and Christ. They just have different roles.
As far as Mary. If the woman housed in her body the God/man, Jesus Christ and birthed him into this world, that’s way up there. Nothing slick, just stunningly awesome. So no, Eve did not cause the downfall of man, both Adam and Eve did.
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donsnow
Guest
Good afternoon, all,
Yes, Adam’s sin was one of omission to protect Eve from the serpent and not to speak up to Eve for God, when she gave him the fruit to eat. Genesis 3, 6 makes it evident that Adam was there with her, when the serpent tempted her. Since he was there, he should have chased away the serpent from them and should have admonished Eve to obey God. That he did neither of those, are his two sins of omission. So, Adam is very much responsible for our downfall, along with Eve.
Just my two cents’ worth.
God loves all of you, lurkers, too,
Don
Yes, Adam’s sin was one of omission to protect Eve from the serpent and not to speak up to Eve for God, when she gave him the fruit to eat. Genesis 3, 6 makes it evident that Adam was there with her, when the serpent tempted her. Since he was there, he should have chased away the serpent from them and should have admonished Eve to obey God. That he did neither of those, are his two sins of omission. So, Adam is very much responsible for our downfall, along with Eve.
Just my two cents’ worth.
God loves all of you, lurkers, too,
Don
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Zundrah
Guest
I’m considering rejecting all of Paul’s letters…
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Publisher
Guest
Or maybe just the “disputed” letters.
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bmonk
Guest
Good luck with that.
Any time you go against the Church on your own, you are giving up the safeguards Christ established for your protection. You may be right — but are you willing to bet your life, your eternal life, on being right?
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Zundrah
Guest
I know, I need to look into why they are disputed. It could take a while.Or maybe just the “disputed” letters.
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Zundrah
Guest
I simply cannot, no matter which way I look at it, accept some of those verses in Paul’s writings. I have no problem with anything, anywhere else. It struck me that the only issues I’ve had with Catholic teaching is always in Paul’s text. Nowhere else.
You think I will go to hell for this?
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Anniejoe
Guest
Zundrah,
I don’t know the Church teaching on these particular verses, but it’s my understanding that St. Paul was addressing a particular problem that had arisen in the church in Ephesus concerning a group of women who had set themselves up as teachers of a false doctrine. I think his statement to Timothy, in particular, was directly addressing these particular women. I think there is also a qualifier “to teach with authority”, which I think has been linked to teaching as an elder. I’m not sure that these verses are to be understood as blanket prohibitions on all women teaching in the assembly in all places, at all times. I think the fact that women can be lectors is proof that the verses aren’t understood that way at all.
I don’t know the Church teaching on these particular verses, but it’s my understanding that St. Paul was addressing a particular problem that had arisen in the church in Ephesus concerning a group of women who had set themselves up as teachers of a false doctrine. I think his statement to Timothy, in particular, was directly addressing these particular women. I think there is also a qualifier “to teach with authority”, which I think has been linked to teaching as an elder. I’m not sure that these verses are to be understood as blanket prohibitions on all women teaching in the assembly in all places, at all times. I think the fact that women can be lectors is proof that the verses aren’t understood that way at all.
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Zundrah
Guest
The Church usually quotes Paul when answering as to why they have no authority to ordain women.
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Anniejoe
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It was my understanding that the Church says it has no authority to ordain women because Jesus didn’t.
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Publisher
Guest
My “eternal life” has little to do with how I view a letter from a fellow believer written so long ago…or if I reject it all together for that matter…my “eternal life” is found in Jesus of Nazareth…it is He that I trust…not a book…not an ecclesial body or a church organization claiming to be the “one true church”…not a ritual I engaged in so long ago…or one I engage in today…“for I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels nor pricipalities nor things present nor things to come can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus”…“For I am persuaded that he is able to keep what I have committed to him against that day.”
He is the Keeper of my soul…not a book…not a dogma…not a church body or fellowship…and for that, I am grateful that “HE IS ABLE TO KEEP what I have committed”.
My soul is in Good Hands.
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johnnyjones
Guest
The Bible is not a pick and chose what I like approach. You must except all scripture because all scripture is God breathed (2Tim 3:16). There are no contradictions throughout all the books of the bible. Perceived contradictions is one thing, but anaylsis prevails. Copying errors also arose but have since been made clear. Whether you quote Paul or Jesus it is all ordained of God.
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