Women should only wear skirts?

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Thanks šŸ™‚

I’m also going to pray to Our Lady about this. I have a little story about her… when I made my Total Consecration to Mary this summer, that very day I REALLY felt that I should stop wearing eye liner on a daily basis. I used to wear it all the time. It was pretty hard at first, but I did it eventually. Now I only wear eyeliner on a really special occasion, and even then, much less than I used to. The funny thing is that I’ve gotten so used to my new look, that it doesn’t bother me any more. That was less about modesty than about vanity, I suppose, but certainly I have far to go in both areas!
 
I know of more than one saint who would be quite pleased to hear of your progress! šŸ™‚
 
I wish I was more like the Saints! they were so detached from everything. šŸ™‚

here is one of my concerns… I know that if I’ll decide to wear more skirts - I don’t have any money for them (only for one, perhaps). Usually I only have money for food and transportation and that’s it. So I guess it will take some time to build a new wardrobe. 🤷 But I don’t want to become vain about this…I mean, what is the point of wearing skirts if I’ll spend all my time thinking about my clothing? I’ll be more modest perhaps, but more vain as well… I guess it takes some time getting used to? Maybe I can start with one new skirt, and see how that goes šŸ™‚

I also got to seriously watch the scrupulosity. Just to clarify… do you all think it’s a SIN to wear pants? or is it just a personal thing (like mantillas)? because I can’t imagine how it could be a sin, even if wearing a skirt is the more perfect thing. I mean, I still think Deut. is talking about cross dressing…

I can totally understand if a woman feels lead to dress a certain way out of love for God. I’ve had to give up a couple things in my life cause I felt He wanted this. But I don’t feel like it’s a sin to wear a pair of pants… and if I choose not to, I want it to be for God, not out of a sense of legalism or fear of hell. We’re not still under the law… the only laws we’re bound to are the Commandments and the teachings of the Church… I dont want to suddenly start thinking that if someone is not wearing a long skirt, she’s committing a mortal sin and will go to hell for this. To me, that’s over doing it… ??
 
Um, DOShea, don’t nursing uniforms come in dresses as well as pant suits? They did 20 years ago I know, because I wore them then. I’m just saying that since a uniform dress is available, it could be worn on those days for church, couldn’t it?

I know you’re probably trying to make a point that the proposal for wearing ā€˜skirts’ at Mass cannot possibly be met by some, and giving your wife’s situation as an example, but the thing is, if a nursing uniform ā€˜dress’ is available, then that means that your wife could indeed wear it, and the argument that it is impossible for her disappears.

God does not hold us to the impossible, but is something really impossible or is it just something that we haven’t really thought could be possible?
 
so about skirts šŸ™‚

how short is too short? (if worn with say…black tights)

most skirts that are being sold around here are a bit below the knee (still covering the knee when you sit down). I got to find one for like 20 dollars, let’s see if this works 😃
 
I gotta run out and get a hajib -or else I’ll be a bad Catholic! Really folks. Modesty is in the eye of the beholder…You could sit all nice and proper and they’ll be a guy staring at your anatomy.Whose fault is that?My ample top was a gift from my family and God.I didn’t flaunt them but I was stared at and approached by old guys when I was a teenager .Am i to blame because guys can’t control their libido or their eyes? I grew up in NYC-believe me it didn’t matter what you wore there would always some creep eyeing you.And it didn’ matter where…Jesus said something about a man with lust in his heart has already sinned. I haven’t heard men blamed for lascivious behavior- only women. Did Jesus misspeak?Are all women a ā€œsnareā€ to men?Jesus didn’t seem to think so. He had way more respect fot women then others of his time.He didn’t just see women as dumb creatures only good of two things .He acknowledged them as human beings and as individuals in their own right.How Jesus treated women was way beyond the pale for Jewish men.You were not supposed to talk to another woman if she wasn’t related to you. Touching them was forbidden - they might be unclean -even a healing touch was forbidden.His society was built on the honor and shame paradigm. Women had to be sheltered and mistrusted because the might bring shame and dishonor on the family.If Jesus had trust in women -why should anybody mistrust them out of all boundaries and not mistrust men’s attitudes?
I am not going to pour myself into hot restrictive clothes just so some guy will be prevented from ogling.Let him put blinders on if he has a hormone problem.!
 
Just to clarify… do you all think it’s a SIN to wear pants? or is it just a personal thing (like mantillas)? because I can’t imagine how it could be a sin, even if wearing a skirt is the more perfect thing. I mean, I still think Deut. is talking about cross dressing.
I, personally, do not think it is a sin to wear pants. When prelates were warning against wearing pants, it was rare for women to wear them.

What I finally figured out for a general, and not hard-and-fast, rule in our household, is that anything that shows an area that people should not see or think too much about should not be worn. That puts our skirt length a few inches below the knee so that when we sit, no one can see up our legs; and sleeveless tops are pretty much out because they rarely if ever fit tightly enough that some skin can’t be seen beyond the clothing, and of course Colleen Hammond’s rule about how low the neckline can be (lean over and see what can be seen underneath).

And we do wear pants, but we also do a lot of things like climb ladders and trees, etc, because we live in the country. And we also live in a very windy area, where I have found that when dressed for Mass I can quickly become immodest :o

I second the idea of your learning about thrift shops šŸ™‚

Here’s a nice article which I think covers most aspects of the issue, altho I don’t think they mention pants at all!
 
I gotta run out and get a hajib -or else I’ll be a bad Catholic! Really folks. Modesty is in the eye of the beholder…You could sit all nice and proper and they’ll be a guy staring at your anatomy.Whose fault is that?My ample top was a gift from my family and God.I didn’t flaunt them but I was stared at and approached by old guys when I was a teenager .Am i to blame because guys can’t control their libido or their eyes? I grew up in NYC-believe me it didn’t matter what you wore there would always some creep eyeing you.And it didn’ matter where…Jesus said something about a man with lust in his heart has already sinned. I haven’t heard men blamed for lascivious behavior- only women. Did Jesus misspeak?Are all women a ā€œsnareā€ to men?Jesus didn’t seem to think so. He had way more respect fot women then others of his time.He didn’t just see women as dumb creatures only good of two things .He acknowledged them as human beings and as individuals in their own right.How Jesus treated women was way beyond the pale for Jewish men.You were not supposed to talk to another woman if she wasn’t related to you. Touching them was forbidden - they might be unclean -even a healing touch was forbidden.His society was built on the honor and shame paradigm. Women had to be sheltered and mistrusted because the might bring shame and dishonor on the family.If Jesus had trust in women -why should anybody mistrust them out of all boundaries and not mistrust men’s attitudes?
I am not going to pour myself into hot restrictive clothes just so some guy will be prevented from ogling.Let him put blinders on if he has a hormone problem.!
It’s okay…It’s okay…calm down…no one is telling you to wear hijab or else you are a bad catholic… :coolinoff:

Sorry that you had to deal with creeps. :o
 
It’s okay…It’s okay…calm down…no one is telling you to wear hijab or else you are a bad catholic… :coolinoff:

Sorry that you had to deal with creeps. :o
You gotta realize that a lot of these creeps wore three piece suit and worked on Wall street.Clothes do not ā€œmaketh the manā€.
 
I just want to know first if this is God’s will. How does He see things? I agree with dressing modestly… but does that always mean skirts? that is my dilemma šŸ™‚
I think it is just one of those issues that is a sort of devotional in nature. While I would not say it is a sin to wear pants (meaning just a generic, ā€œalways wrongā€ statement), I think the devotion helps us in our spiritual journey. For example, for me, it helps me to be a better wife, to be more modest in my speech and thoughts (not just the outside), and to remember that I am always demonstrating to our culture what kingdom culture is all about! To me, that makes the time and attention to dressing femininely well worth it. But, to someone else, it may be something else is more important spiritually to them. My personal experience is that something like this can seem very drastic to us to do, changing our wardrobe, even just a little, and it also can seem drastic to those around us. And I think that’s why it’s is so difficult at first but so rewarding in the end.

I started with just one skirt and tried to wear it a couple times a week. Then I bought one more, then another… it just adds us. Don’t be afraid to try it for a little while and see how you feel and how others treat you (there is a BIG difference with men, trust me!)… And if you don’t feel it after a while, just keep your receipts, no harm done. šŸ‘
I gotta run out and get a hajib -or else I’ll be a bad Catholic! Really folks. Modesty is in the eye of the beholder…You could sit all nice and proper and they’ll be a guy staring at your anatomy.Whose fault is that?My ample top was a gift from my family and God.I didn’t flaunt them but I was stared at and approached by old guys when I was a teenager .Am i to blame because guys can’t control their libido or their eyes? I grew up in NYC-believe me it didn’t matter what you wore there would always some creep eyeing you.And it didn’ matter where…Jesus said something about a man with lust in his heart has already sinned. I haven’t heard men blamed for lascivious behavior- only women. Did Jesus misspeak?Are all women a ā€œsnareā€ to men?Jesus didn’t seem to think so. He had way more respect fot women then others of his time.He didn’t just see women as dumb creatures only good of two things .He acknowledged them as human beings and as individuals in their own right.How Jesus treated women was way beyond the pale for Jewish men.You were not supposed to talk to another woman if she wasn’t related to you. Touching them was forbidden - they might be unclean -even a healing touch was forbidden.His society was built on the honor and shame paradigm. Women had to be sheltered and mistrusted because the might bring shame and dishonor on the family.If Jesus had trust in women -why should anybody mistrust them out of all boundaries and not mistrust men’s attitudes?
I am not going to pour myself into hot restrictive clothes just so some guy will be prevented from ogling.Let him put blinders on if he has a hormone problem.!
No one has made anywhere NEAR the statements or insinuations you are claiming here. Please be respectful, as we have been.
 
I also got to seriously watch the scrupulosity. Just to clarify… do you all think it’s a SIN to wear pants? or is it just a personal thing (like mantillas)? because I can’t imagine how it could be a sin, even if wearing a skirt is the more perfect thing. I mean, I still think Deut. is talking about cross dressing…
The Catholic Church is quite clear that it is NOT a sin for Western women to wear pants in church or outside of it. There may be a variety of opinions on what is best or whatever, but if anyone tells you that it is a sin they are mistaken or misleading you.

You might look at these questions on the topic from the apologists forum.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=342339&highlight=pants+women

or forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=348186&highlight=marian+dress
Um, DOShea, don’t nursing uniforms come in dresses as well as pant suits? They did 20 years ago I know, because I wore them then. I’m just saying that since a uniform dress is available, it could be worn on those days for church, couldn’t it?

I know you’re probably trying to make a point that the proposal for wearing ā€˜skirts’ at Mass cannot possibly be met by some, and giving your wife’s situation as an example, but the thing is, if a nursing uniform ā€˜dress’ is available, then that means that your wife could indeed wear it, and the argument that it is impossible for her disappears.

God does not hold us to the impossible, but is something really impossible or is it just something that we haven’t really thought could be possible?
My mom used to nurse and wear skirts. She learned nursing when they had starched uniforms. But she did say that the skirt had disadvantages - she was an ER nurse and having to jump up on a moving stretcher to work on a patient was not unknown, and could easily be a bit undignified in a skirt.
 
I gotta run out and get a hajib -or else I’ll be a bad Catholic!
Now, now nobody has said anything near to that. šŸ˜‰
Really folks. Modesty is in the eye of the beholder…You could sit all nice and proper and they’ll be a guy staring at your anatomy.Whose fault is that?My ample top was a gift from my family and God.I didn’t flaunt them but I was stared at and approached by old guys when I was a teenager .Am i to blame because guys can’t control their libido or their eyes? I grew up in NYC-believe me it didn’t matter what you wore there would always some creep eyeing you.And it didn’ matter where…Jesus said something about a man with lust in his heart has already sinned. I haven’t heard men blamed for lascivious behavior- only women. Did Jesus misspeak?Are all women a ā€œsnareā€ to men?Jesus didn’t seem to think so. He had way more respect fot women then others of his time.He didn’t just see women as dumb creatures only good of two things .He acknowledged them as human beings and as individuals in their own right.How Jesus treated women was way beyond the pale for Jewish men.You were not supposed to talk to another woman if she wasn’t related to you. Touching them was forbidden - they might be unclean -even a healing touch was forbidden.His society was built on the honor and shame paradigm. Women had to be sheltered and mistrusted because the might bring shame and dishonor on the family.If Jesus had trust in women -why should anybody mistrust them out of all boundaries and not mistrust men’s attitudes?
I think it’s true that there are some men out there, maybe even many men out there who are just trying to harass young girls. They get pleasure from that and no matter what you wear, they’ll try to embarrass and degrade you. They think it’s a ā€œmachoā€ thing to do. :rolleyes:

But what about the good guys who really are trying to do their best and keep custody of their eyes? Do you think that woman have a responsibility before God to make life easier for them? Do you think it’s a sin to dress in a way that’s provocative because it could cause a man to stumble?
I am not going to pour myself into hot restrictive clothes just so some guy will be prevented from ogling.
No one’s asking you to. šŸ™‚
Let him put blinders on if he has a hormone problem.!
I’d guess that you’re very young because you don’t seem to realize yet this is how men are wired. They are very visual. It’d be like telling a woman to read a romance novel, but not to have a lustful thought.
 
That’s not an authoritative statement, so, no, the Catholic Church has not said what you want it to say. šŸ™‚ Some people are revered for many reasons, martyrs do not always live lives that are the best before they go. CA has made mistakes before and will again.
 
so about skirts šŸ™‚

how short is too short? (if worn with say…black tights)

most skirts that are being sold around here are a bit below the knee (still covering the knee when you sit down). I got to find one for like 20 dollars, let’s see if this works 😃
Well I believe it’s simply to be as long as it’s below the knee enough so you can sit and move around without danger of it easily hiking up instead of hanging down. I think that Padre Pio page had some advice on inches.

Generally, I’d say just go full length and so not be concerned about borderlines. Simpler, safer.

You know when you think about wearing whatever you want in the privacy of your own place, I don’t consider myself scrupulous, but I do at times feel moved to conduct myself more… hmm… modestly, while alone too. This would never have occurred to me in the past, but, as I get older I think – Heaven is always there, the angels are always watching us…

And you never know when an emergency will happen, and also, you want to have good habits for when you have surprise company, in all times generally, or even perhaps in view of eventually sharing a room or house.

Modesty is something that should always be a part of you, in private and in public. If it’s natural, a part of you, then it is not affected or difficult as it might be at first.

So, I am trying to be more gracious and somewhat more modest even while alone. This takes some work, but it works.

Regarding sin and clothing issues… Just thinking about it casually without going into detail I think hmm… generally wearing any type of clothing, is not directly a sin, but rather indirectly. It’s the effect the clothing has on your appearance, the effect this has on others, and your motivations for wearing it.

If you appear in a way you should not, this is not your proper mode of being clothed, and so can be a sin against modesty. I.e., it is deceitful, makes you out to be something you aren’t, raises you up or lowers you from what you are, etc.

If you wear clothing that has a bad effect on others, i.e. is a near occasion of sin, even for a responsible person, this is of course a sin.

If you wear it because you want to provoke someone, if you wear it because you want to feel more manly rather than womanly, or vice versa, or others to see you as such…

If you wear something that has a bad example for others, because the clothing generally has a bad effect, the sin of scandal…

A man for example, who was escaping from kidnappers in disguise, could temporarily crossdress without it being a sin, I speculate – speculate, don’t know. This is an extraordinary exception that does not break the standard, but also shows that clothing isn’t a -directly- sinful thing.

It’s the matters surrounding it closely, but not normally not it directly, that are sins.

We live in a society where a great deal of what is objectively sinful, is seen as not. The television, the entertainment, the books, all these incitements, casual ways of living… so much of it is sinful but we do not by default feel it to be so, even though we might after looking over it all reason out, ā€œWhy yes, this has a bad effect after all on people.ā€

So one would see the problem caused by wearing pants instead of skirts like that.

That they, by bad example, and effect on a person, make women in general more manly than they should be, would be crossing over the borderline into the sin of crossdressing, even if the direct will of the particular woman doing it, had nothing to do with the masculinity or femininity of the clothing. Just like young girls can be dressed up by their mothers in horrifically scanty outfits, and be bad examples though they themselves have no thought as to what the outfits represent.

Nowadays we are seeing more and more men dress more and more affectedly, with jewelry or ways so deliberately casual and rough that it shows a disrespect for manners in society. So in the former case we have going over the borderline into the crossdressing sin for men with too much bling, or being immodest by degrading public manners through deliberately sloppy dressing, such as that whole worn clothing, gangsta, baggy pants style.

So modesty… we have a lot to do… and it is a joy to do it. šŸ™‚
 
That’s not an authoritative statement, so, no, the Catholic Church has not said what you want it to say. šŸ™‚ Some people are revered for many reasons, martyrs do not always live lives that are the best before they go. CA has made mistakes before and will again.
Are you stating authoritatively that a woman wearing pants to Mass, or outside of it, is a sin? That was the question.
 
See post #37 for the cases that could possibly be made.
The OP, who has said that she has issues with scrupulosity which she needs to be careful about, asked if wearing pants would be an objective sin. The CC is clear - a woman in pants is not an objective sin. You are not being helpful in your response, and it seems to me you are rather taking advantage of her for your own agenda.
 
Actually the way you just worded this seems to me to be trying to skirt the issues, so to speak, that have been dealt with in detail above, but you seem to want to ignore. šŸ™‚ So…

No the CC doesn’t teach what you want to put forth.

Throw your bombs if you wish, it’s been at least a pleasant conversation so far here though I must say, and I think a lot of the truth behind modesty has been discussed peacefully. šŸ™‚
 
A priest once wrote that if he treated his parishioners the way Padre Pio treated some of his, then he would have no end of trouble with the bishop.

The point is that, even if Padre Pio didn’t approve, it doesn’t mean that his point of view is the standard for everyone. There is certainly nothing wrong with a woman wearing pants and the Church has never proclaimed as much.
I’ve got to agree with you here.

Sometimes folks just tie themselves in knots over non-issues. People seem to have very firm ideas of what we should and shouldn’t do with regard to dress/headcovering/what-have you both in church and outside of it. I swear the energy expended on worry about this contributes to global warming.

If a dictum comes from Holy Mother Church telling women to stop wearing pants of any kind, and start wearing something on our heads, fine; if the Church in her wisdom thought this was of importance to our salvation, She would, most certainly, speak on it definitively. Otherwise, I will simply use my God-given common sense and dress modestly and sensibly.
 
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