Women/Wives

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I pose a question, have you even done something pure leap pf faith out of love?
(within the confines of a clearly moral situation)
Have you ever trusted anyone enough to go along with them without question?

Some have mentioned they have no relationships like this, marital or otherwise. I made a previous post (obviously ignored by some) about how mutual respectful submission can take place in friendships. and that truly only pity can be felt for someone who has not experienced such a thing.
 
To the highlighted red section: No. A husband is most certain NOT called to give his wife whatever she wants, nor to give up what he wants to ensure she gets what she wants. This is simply not true. And I certainly hope you are not using Roseanne as an example of a properly ordered Christian marriage. :eek:
It was a singular usage of their marriage for specific example purposes.

In a worldly sense, I suppose that a rich man need not forego anything for his wife… but for us paupers we must. You misunderstand love… If you truly love the person YOU will WANT them to have what they want. I feel we have different concepts of love. If I love you I will spend my days figuring out how you can be happy. I honestly think the problem here is few people know love well enough. And honestly I thought I was weak on love…

I will give an idea on love from the reason why I stopped ignoring God:

In a simplified account of events;

Basically at a cross roads of to stay with God or to go back away I had a mental image of God turning away from me…stopping before complete and turning back. The jist was this is what you do to me, and what I will never do to you mindset.

Now the threat of a Hell
Even the threat of his turning away

None of that was powerful enough to make me stay around.

Why then come back to God? Because I realized how in some small way he feels when we turn our backs…

The worst feeling was when I realized what I was doing to Him, not what he was or could do to me. I learned a thing about God being love.
 
To the highlighted red section: No. A husband is most certain NOT called to give his wife whatever she wants, nor to give up what he wants to ensure she gets what she wants. This is simply not true. And I certainly hope you are not using Roseanne as an example of a properly ordered Christian marriage. :eek:
In a most earthly sense can you at least admit that even if my view is wrong as you say that if wifely submission comes in the form I described that it wouldn’t be so bad? lol
 
It was a singular usage of their marriage for specific example purposes.

In a worldly sense, I suppose that a rich man need not forego anything for his wife… but for us paupers we must. You misunderstand love… If you truly love the person YOU will WANT them to have what they want. I feel we have different concepts of love. If I love you I will spend my days figuring out how you can be happy. I honestly think the problem here is few people know love well enough. And honestly I thought I was weak on love…

I will give an idea on love from the reason why I stopped ignoring God:

In a simplified account of events;

Basically at a cross roads of to stay with God or to go back away I had a mental image of God turning away from me…stopping before complete and turning back. The jist was this is what you do to me, and what I will never do to you mindset.

Now the threat of a Hell
Even the threat of his turning away

None of that was powerful enough to make me stay around.

Why then come back to God? Because I realized how in some small way he feels when we turn our backs…

The worst feeling was when I realized what I was doing to Him, not what he was or could do to me. I learned a thing about God being love.
People often want things that are very bad for them. This happens not rarely, but often. It is called concupiscence.

I do truly love my husband, but I do not want to give him everything he wants. I want the best for him. The best for him is God, and heaven. I do not misunderstand love. It is rather presumptuous and arrogant of you to say that I do.

I have mentioned this already to you before, but perhaps you missed it. I have been married for nearly 2 decades, and I am currently expecting my 6th child. Furthermore, my husband and I have always been devoted and faithful to each other, and we were high school sweet hearts turned college sweethearts. Who are you to suggest that I am weak on love?

You are shooting yourself in the foot, LethalMouse. On this thread you have used ad hominem attacks on anyone who disagrees with you, claiming your superior mental abilities, superior understanding of love and ability to act like Christ. And yet the only credentials you show to support it was your description of an ended courtship, that sounded incredibly intimate for a dating relationship. You are not going to win any arguments by consistently ridiculing others and puffing yourself up. I have already invited you to argue your point from the level of principles. Can you not do so without turning it into an ad hominem post or a chance to boast?
 
I pose a question, have you even done something [that is a] pure leap of faith out of love?
(within the confines of a clearly moral situation)
Have you ever trusted anyone enough to go along with them without question?
(Spelling and grammar adjusted)

Yes of course. I have done so and I would hazard a guess that most married couples have. Isn’t that part and parcel of making marriage vows and consummating the relationship and starting married life together and starting a family? I could think of at least a dozen other biggies that I have done in my own marriage beyond the obvious ones I listed.
 
Again you have missed how submissive the husband is called to be. And have missed my example of Jesus torture and death vs My going to a big climate controlled building and then getting free doughnuts…

If the husband does what he is supposed to do than he would actually spend more time being vulnerable. He would actually submit more often.

I can think of the show Rosanne. Like 98% of the time Rosanne ran the roost, once every 2 seasons Dan would decide an issue was big enough to get all manly about and Rosanne would become submissive. This is how I see it, in essence to earn that submission he spends 98% of his time making her happy and once every two years he gets some say so. It is vulnerable to give a woman whatever she wants. which is what men are called to do. It is vulnerable to give up what you want to ensure your wife gets what she wants. But you can not see anything required of anyone else. You operate under the ONE AT A TIME fallacy that somehow makes the existence of one thing negate the existence of another. That is only true with matter and anti matter, and even that is only theory. NEVER EVER HAS THE SHEER EXISTENCE OF SOMETHING IN HUMAN HISTORY MADE ANOTHER THING STOP EXISTING. Jeez.

If your logic were accurate than for the fact that a woman can have a bad day means that I can not

Since ISIS killed someone today, I must be immortal

Since you are on earth I must not be…I have REALLY good wifi

Since I just ate Ice Cream you have now never tasted it.
So what principle do you claim that I seem to be negating? Your post is very condescending.
 
People often want things that are very bad for them. This happens not rarely, but often. It is called concupiscence.

I do truly love my husband, but I do not want to give him everything he wants. I want the best for him. The best for him is God, and heaven. I do not misunderstand love. It is rather presumptuous and arrogant of you to say that I do.

I have mentioned this already to you before, but perhaps you missed it. I have been married for nearly 2 decades, and I am currently expecting my 6th child. Furthermore, my husband and I have always been devoted and faithful to each other, and we were high school sweet hearts turned college sweethearts. Who are you to suggest that I am weak on love?

You are shooting yourself in the foot, LethalMouse. On this thread you have used ad hominem attacks on anyone who disagrees with you, claiming your superior mental abilities, superior understanding of love and ability to act like Christ. And yet the only credentials you show to support it was your description of an ended courtship, that sounded incredibly intimate for a dating relationship. You are not going to win any arguments by consistently ridiculing others and puffing yourself up. I have already invited you to argue your point from the level of principles. Can you not do so without turning it into an ad hominem post or a chance to boast?
Not meant to boast, I know of no way to present things without exanple. As I stated on many examples they are excerpts made for the point as in the Rosanne one. Not obviously pride filled since it lacks my personal involvement. But if someone is unwilling to segregate the rest of the show to extrapolatethe relevent parts then it becomes a lost point. For if that example was otherwise perfect with the only failing of the show the pro gay stuff, many would use the fact that the show had pro gay marriage as a reason why all other points are nullified.

The problem is that BlueEyed is an atheist who is as successful in marriage as you are per both of your stated “credentials”. In a theological debate however how is her marriage to be viewed for a Catholic? If marital success or the claim thereof were the metric of our faith then shch logic would nullify the need for God in its entirety.

I would agree with much of your points but we largely argue semantics. And watch any long winded debate with circle talking… humans make errors as they over explain things I am a human.

But the issue is we are trying to hammer home the over arching point and see if there is a semantic that is lacking. And to come together on “what it means”.

As to ad hominem attacks, not one claim cares to address a claim. As I had the much earlier post with the built in proof of misuse, and it was so used. No one will address it. Because it is proof. The post stated it must be used with reference or in conjuction with the following post or else it was taken out of context. It was used against me without said shbsequent post. There is no debate because it was clearly written.

You even take in this very post the mental aspect out of context as I explaibed it in a later post and denounced having the superior ability. The only thing I referenced it for was communication style and a single common theme of believing one things existense negates another, that I do not understand.

I made the one post where I stated understanding the concerns when I did not want to give misconstrued advice to a young lady and have her get hurt. And got the same concerns. Something like that should help bridge the gap between us but since it makes me look decent that is ignored.

And now it seems that I have gone from a male shovenist woman beater to being “wrong” because I say men should be too nice to women.

The best way I can put it is the old adagge:

A relationship is not 50/50 it is 100/100

You know it is like referencing bosses at work, I said that people have 745 or some such number of bosses. Do I mean that the statistically avg person has a statistically avg number of bosses that literally is 745?

Ummmmm NO this is a point maker and not a fact number. As many things are examoles that even if “fact” are good at illustrating a point and not necessarily all encompassing.

When we do an imitation of a famous person it is an exaggerationof their most prominent feature. With all the imitations of GW Bush on TV seeing him on the news the other day he almost didn’t look like him, because he is not a characature. However if I tried to show you how GW acts and avoided the exaggerated actions, you would not kniw who I was pretending to be.

As to giving up what one wants. I want to have time to watch all my tv shows. I was deep into a bunch, but I spend that tv time with my son which is more important. Because I love him. Again you wont think this a bad thing? I want to buy myself a motorcycle, but again I want to provide my son with things, so no motorcycle. Same logic with a woman. Same principles. My wording may have made it sound like something insane, but you have to look at what all I have said and have agreed with that others have said.
 
So what principle do you claim that I seem to be negating? Your post is very condescending.
If the wife is submissive then the husband can not be

If women can get hurt than men can not

These are the claims in effect that ar ilogical
 
(Spelling and grammar adjusted)

Yes of course. I have done so and I would hazard a guess that most married couples have. Isn’t that part and parcel of making marriage vows and consummating the relationship and starting married life together and starting a family? I could think of at least a dozen other biggies that I have done in my own marriage beyond the obvious ones I listed.
According to those agruing I would take it as a No, that doing these things is apparently like cutting ones own eyeball out and eating it.

And somewhere in this thread to the post I mentioned at least one person specified they would not do so for anyone… so that is where I get the concept.

Since there are multiple people involved some may not qualify for everything I say… as my boss would say in morning meetings “If it doesn’t pertain to you, don’t get upset becauseit isn’t for you”
 
If the wife is submissive then the husband can not be

If women can get hurt than men can not

These are the claims in effect that ar ilogical
Where in my posts did I say the above?

You will have to quote me word for word along with the post number.

Do not presume that you know the intentions behind my posts as you seem to have been missing the point of all my posts.
 
Where in my posts did I say the above?

You will have to quote me word for word along with the post number.
Post #232

Which was an answer to post #230.

#230 was actually involving someone else. My claim is the logic jump on these posts. However mostly I was posting on my phone at work, I pop on/off and get distracted mid way through and finish later. etc. SO I take little heed in the name of the poster. Honestly if you jump in it is easier to just assume you agree to what they said if you are coming from their general point of view 😛

I have seen one or two people agree with me and then change over later etc… this has been a fun thing this forum 🙂

Anyway, I argue the accumulation of arguments in succession do add up to some logical fallacies…but perhaps some are two different people’s logic? LOL

IN #232 specifically though you make it sound as though the plight of women negates the plight of men via the chain of posts it is connected to (see #230)
 
Post #232

Which was an answer to post #230.

#230 was actually involving someone else. My claim is the logic jump on these posts. However mostly I was posting on my phone at work, I pop on/off and get distracted mid way through and finish later. etc. SO I take little heed in the name of the poster. Honestly if you jump in it is easier to just assume you agree to what they said if you are coming from their general point of view 😛

I have seen one or two people agree with me and then change over later etc… this has been a fun thing this forum 🙂

Anyway, I argue the accumulation of arguments in succession do add up to some logical fallacies…but perhaps some are two different people’s logic? LOL

IN #232 specifically though you make it sound as though the plight of women negates the plight of men via the chain of posts it is connected to (see #230)
No the plight of women does not negate the plight of men. I have never even said that. I am just saying that the dangers that women face are very real. I myself have faced some of these dangers as a child.

I grew up in a war torn country. I remember sleeping in street clothes instead of pajamas so we could flee at a moment’s notice. I came to this country as a refugee. So I know that there are horrid things out there and both men and women have suffered because of it. Women were not more protected than men.
 
Whoever said that God is wrong and activists are right?
see this was in reference to post #188 which was written by someone else. And I was referencing the entire cumulative posts regarding the gender roles and where they are heading. It was meant to illustrate a point. The Catholic perspective is that all the efforts to indoctrinate kids about gay marriage and other cultural movements are bad. The suggestions of some of these posts are movements that are tied up with the same. As we blur gender roles we get LGBT becoming the norm.

From a Catholic standpoint how is that a good thing?
 
Post #232

Which was an answer to post #230.

#230 was actually involving someone else. My claim is the logic jump on these posts. However mostly I was posting on my phone at work, I pop on/off and get distracted mid way through and finish later. etc. SO I take little heed in the name of the poster. Honestly if you jump in it is easier to just assume you agree to what they said if you are coming from their general point of view 😛

I have seen one or two people agree with me and then change over later etc… this has been a fun thing this forum 🙂

Anyway, I argue the accumulation of arguments in succession do add up to some logical fallacies…but perhaps some are two different people’s logic? LOL

IN #232 specifically though you make it sound as though the plight of women negates the plight of men via the chain of posts it is connected to (see #230)
Yes. Such is the nature of CAF. Especially the Family Life forum. It does get rather lively around here at times.

It seems then, based on some of your latest responses, that we do not perhaps disagree in theory about the goodness of the Church’s teachings on spousal relationships, but we definitely express ourselves differently. I tend to be as precise and exacting as possible, both in online communication and in my day-to-day life. I do tend to be rather exasperating to my friends and family who are more lax in their communication style. However, I still say that telling someone they misunderstand love is not as helpful as simply asking them how they understand love. 😉
 
see this was in reference to post #188 which was written by someone else. And I was referencing the entire cumulative posts regarding the gender roles and where they are heading. It was meant to illustrate a point. The Catholic perspective is that all the efforts to indoctrinate kids about gay marriage and other cultural movements are bad. The suggestions of some of these posts are movements that are tied up with the same. As we blur gender roles we get LGBT becoming the norm.

From a Catholic standpoint how is that a good thing?
Have you read post #234?

Read it . It will tell you what I think about husbands and wives.
 
No the plight of women does not negate the plight of men. I have never even said that. I am just saying that the dangers that women face are very real. I myself have faced some of these dangers as a child.

I grew up in a war torn country. I remember sleeping in street clothes instead of pajamas so we could flee at a moment’s notice. I came to this country as a refugee. So I know that there are horrid things out there and both men and women have suffered because of it. Women were not more protected than men.
There is an internet meme, it shows a picture of ISIS fighting with women as human shields
Then it has a picture of US soldiers forming a shield around a woman and child while they fight ISIS.

MY conversation is about those US soldiers (while I acknowledge the ISIS ones), you seem to only acknowledge the ISIS ones…the ISIS ones will kill the men too.

SO half of the world will kill Women and Children in a gruesome manor
Half will protect them

The whole world will kill men. 😛

Search Youtube, you can find soooo many video comps of men getting beat up by women, and the men either get more beat up by men or video and laughed at. WHILE said type videos of women getting beat by men will end with the men getting attacked by other men.

So basically you can probably walk down the street punching me scott free, IF I were inclined to punch you I am probably going to be beaten and later arrested. YEP no protections.
 
To the highlighted red section: No. A husband is most certain NOT called to give his wife whatever she wants, nor to give up what he wants to ensure she gets what she wants. This is simply not true. And I certainly hope you are not using Roseanne as an example of a properly ordered Christian marriage. :eek:
I thought Roseanne was a sweet and touching show. I hated it as a kid, I think because I confused Roseanne Barr with Rosie O’Donnel.🙂 A couple of years ago hubby and I were stuck at home with whooping cough and we binged a couple of seasons and I really enjoyed it.

But I never thought she “ruled the roost” and that he rolled over and played dead 98% of the time to “earn the right to be manly” every two years. I actually cringe at the thought any husband acting that way. I saw them as blue collar couple who were very much a team in getting through poverty in their own quirky way. Yeah, she made most daily household decisions. She also did most of the cooking and cleaning - so what was she going to do, run those things by Dan?

He was consistently a strong husband and father who did often put his foot down, protect his family, and keep everyone in line. He also encouraged his wife to be the best she could be. And he took pride in it. He’s kind of the archetype of the small town, old school, Midwestern guys I have experience with. There’s a reason that obese, curly haired John Goodman was something of an everyman sex symbol in the 90’s.😉
 
Yes. Such is the nature of CAF. Especially the Family Life forum. It does get rather lively around here at times.

It seems then, based on some of your latest responses, that we do not perhaps disagree in theory about the goodness of the Church’s teachings on spousal relationships, but we definitely express ourselves differently. I tend to be as precise and exacting as possible, both in online communication and in my day-to-day life. I do tend to be rather exasperating to my friends and family who are more lax in their communication style. However, I still say that telling someone they misunderstand love is not as helpful as simply asking them how they understand love. 😉
Two things,
  1. I spent most of my time away from “religious” people. I found them to be a big reason to avoid such a thing as religion.
  2. I made the decision to face God and not let my irritation of people affect that, So I am used to rolling in the circles that don’t get offended much. And since things like the “F” word are not sins…I can still be me, but much to the dismay of the kind of people who tend to float near churches 😛
Note the movie The Boondock Saints…that is more my kind of tact and devoutness.
 
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