At a macro-level, that is certainly false. In each decision, perhaps someone will take the lead, but there is no reason to dismiss the possibility that in the long term, the marriage functions as an equal pairing. Your inability to work on equal footing with others does not mean it is not possible for others.
But others do not have to be, and Catholic teaching does not call for the husband to be the final decision-maker.
What Brother JR says about Paul’s discription of a specific discipline being an expression of a larger theology is extremely important in terms of not only the discussion here but study and understanding of scripture as a whole.I have never seen one. I can’t answer that question.
The one thing to keep in mind is that outside of dogma, moral law and natural law, Dominicans, Carmelites. Benedictines and Franciscans are not bible literalists. It’s not part of the Middle Ages tradition, from which we came. **This particular statement by Paul is embedded in a much larger context about covenant relationships between Chrich and Church and husband and wife as sacraments of that covenant. ** These schools are going to pay attention to the theology that Paul is expounding rather than the discipline that he is putting forth as an expression of that theology.
It’s important to keep in mind that the Epistles contain both, theology and disciplines. In those days, the lines were not clearly stated, because the writers assumed that the reader understood, since these were things that they had already discussed.
We have the disadvantage of never having sat down with Paul to hear the rest of the story to to sit down with Peter to here is explanation of the theology, whic is different from that of Paul, while being theologically consistent Yet, Peter does not bring up the submission at all. He explains the same idea, but uses different disciplines to help people remember the doctrine. Then, if you look at John, James, Jude and the Gospels themselves, the idea of submmission is not mentioned at all. The focus remains the same, the covenant. The Gospels, as we know, are younger than some of the letters.
We can’t just focus on Paul. That’s what Dominicans, Benedictines, Carmelites and Franciscans discourage, focussing in on Paul and ignoring everything else that refers to marriage though the entire OT and NT. St. Anthony of Padua rejected that method as being “self-serving” for those who wanted to hang their hat on a single peg of scripture. He was just speaking about this passage, but about any passage. We can trust him. He is one of the most outstanding biblical scholars in Catholic history.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, FFV
Of course. And frankly, I think that people who object to the idea of a wife submitting are not realizing that the husband is to love his wife as God loves the Church. Imagine that! And they are both to submit to each other, which deals with the problem of having a dictator for a husband.
It goes beyond this for me. For me, when I look at the Trinity, I see the model for marriage and I’m also able to see where mine went wrong.
Okay so having said all that, do you believe that a good model of a marriage is for the wife to be submissive to the husband or not?
Not that you were asking me, but I want to be on record as approving of male headship in marriage. I believe the wife should be submissive to the husband.
On what basis?
Scripture and consistent teaching of the Church throughout history.
Also, and I may be wrong, but I honestly think women are wired in such a way that it just works better if the female is the one to be submissive. And men are wired in such a way that they thrive in positions of ‘authority’. Probably all that testosterone and estrogen. I dunno but I seem to recall reading something that put forth this position in far better terms then I ever could.
That’s what I was saying beforeI agree.
If I were to remarry, I would ALLOW my husband to be the head.
Absolutely! It’s a choice, ultimately.I agree.
If I were to remarry, I would ALLOW my husband to be the head.
And the marriages I’ve seen that have been healthy always had structure where the wife allowed the husband to be the authority figure and yet she had his ear (if you know what I mean).I probably have a lot of testosterone because I have no problem leading.
Honestly I’m a pretty good leader too, but if I’m honest with myself I prefer NOT to lead. As good as I can be at taking control when I need to, I sigh with relief when there’s a male present who can take over the situation.I probably have a lot of testosterone because I have no problem leading.
For me to deny myself in that way and submit to my husband is a beautiful thought.
Healthy submission, of course. Submitting to an abusive man would, of course, not be wise or good.Do you thrive when a competent woman takes over the situation? No challenge, just wondering.
Oh yeah! But where I work the other managers on my shift are male.
I’m the only female when I’m on shift…Well, if he understands his role properly he won’t think he has a God-given right to have a submissive wife, but rather a God-given responsibility to sacrifice his own needs and life for his bride (as Christ did).
It’s not a matter of being contray to Paul’s teaching is a matter of Paul bringing in something that no one else brings into the picture. There seems to be a concerted effort among Protestants and Traditionalists to hold Paul up as the master teacher on marriage and believe that everything must submit to Paul’s single statement.