women's authority in the church

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I notice that none of the supporters of wifely submission have answered me when I asked whether or not there are any limit’s to a husband’s authority?
Or whether a Godly woman can ever (in good conscience) exercise authority over her husband (or for that matter men in general)?
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
I notice that none of the supporters of wifely submission have answered me when I asked whether or not there are any limit’s to a husband’s authority?
Or whether a Godly woman can ever (in good conscience) exercise authority over her husband (or for that matter men in general)?
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The second one is clear. There have been women in the Church who have exercised canonical authority over men.

The first one, it’s matter of common sense. If you value your life, you better not push the envelope on this submission thing. 😃

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
I notice that none of the supporters of wifely submission have answered me when I asked whether or not there are any limit’s to a husband’s authority?
Or whether a Godly woman can ever (in good conscience) exercise authority over her husband (or for that matter men in general)?
Click to expand...
🙂

Sorry. I get distracted easily.

1: Of course there are limits to authority. Any authority. Even the authority a man has over his wife. I’m not sure what this has to do with anything but that’s my opinion. I should stress that anything I have stated on this thread is my opinion. Not Church teaching (I actually don’t know Church teaching on marriage yet because I’ve been busy studying issues more near and dear to my heart).

2: Why would she need to exercise authority over her husband? If he is a Godly man and she a Godly woman she wouldn’t ever need to exercise authority. Just as we, as nothing more then citizens, don’t exercise authority over our President (or Prime Minister). We are allowed a vote. We are allowed a say but ultimately the final authority lies in our appointed officials hands.
 
JReducation said:
The second one is clear. There have been women in the Church who have exercised canonical authority over men.

The first one, it’s matter of common sense. If you value your life, you better not push the envelope on this submission thing. 😃

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
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Brother, are you a supporter of wifely submission? 🙂
 
nickybr38 said:
Brother, are you a supporter of wifely submission? 🙂
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I’m not a supporter of what people interpret to be wifely submission. I am a supporter of what has been revealed about the marriage covenant in the Judeo-Christian Tradition. That is that marriage is a covenant that draws two people to complete each other as the three persons of the Trinity form the God-head and as Jesus and the Church form the Mystical Body.

Submission in Judeo-Christian Tradition is an act of charity, not an act of subservience. It must also be understood that throughout Judeo-Christian history, God has been a benevolent spouse. When Paul and Peter speak about the marriage covenant in the light of the relationship between Christ and the Church, the virtues of the husband are to be those of Christ.

If we look at the Synoptics, what are the virtues of Christ. They are summarized in the Beatitudes If we look at John’s Gospel the virtues of Christ are summarized in his priestly prayer in Gethsemane.

Is a wife to submit to her husband? The answer is simple. Is her husband like Christ?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I’m not a supporter of what people interpret to be wifely submission. I am a supporter of what has been revealed about the marriage covenant in the Judeo-Christian Tradition. That is that marriage is a covenant that draws two people to complete each other as the three persons of the Trinity form the God-head and as Jesus and the Church form the Mystical Body.

Submission in Judeo-Christian Tradition is an act of charity, not an act of subservience. It must also be understood that throughout Judeo-Christian history, God has been a benevolent spouse. When Paul and Peter speak about the marriage covenant in the light of the relationship between Christ and the Church, the virtues of the husband are to be those of Christ.

If we look at the Synoptics, what are the virtues of Christ. They are summarized in the Beatitudes If we look at John’s Gospel the virtues of Christ are summarized in his priestly prayer in Gethsemane.

Is a wife to submit to her husband? The answer is simple. Is her husband like Christ?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
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Lovely explanation. Thank you. I must say this thread has been very good for me. 🙂
 
JReducation said:
The second one is clear. There have been women in the Church who have exercised canonical authority over men.

The first one, it’s matter of common sense. If you value your life, you better not push the envelope on this submission thing. 😃

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
Click to expand...
To be honest, I was not addressing you.
Your opinion seems more nuanced than that.
 
nickybr38 said:
🙂

2: Why would she need to exercise authority over her husband? If he is a Godly man and she a Godly woman she wouldn’t ever need to exercise authority. Just as we, as nothing more then citizens, don’t exercise authority over our President (or Prime Minister). We are allowed a vote. We are allowed a say but ultimately the final authority lies in our appointed officials hands.
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You want an example, all right:
What if a man has a nervous breakdown and becomes a danger to himself and others?
Should his wife be able to have him committed (or sent somewhere else where he won’t hurt anyone)?

What if a man is badly injured (and can’t give consent as a result) should his wife be able to tell the doctors what to do?
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
You want an example, all right:
What if a man has a nervous breakdown and becomes a danger to himself and others?
Should his wife be able to have him committed (or sent somewhere else where he won’t hurt anyone)?

What if a man is badly injured (and can’t give consent as a result) should his wife be able to tell the doctors what to do?
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Of course. To both.
 
nickybr38 said:
🙂

Sorry. I get distracted easily.

1: Of course there are limits to authority. Any authority. Even the authority a man has over his wife. I’m not sure what this has to do with anything but that’s my opinion. I should stress that anything I have stated on this thread is my opinion. Not Church teaching (I actually don’t know Church teaching on marriage yet because I’ve been busy studying issues more near and dear to my heart).

.
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Such as?
 
nickybr38 said:
🙂

Sorry. I get distracted easily.

2: Why would she need to exercise authority over her husband? If he is a Godly man and she a Godly woman she wouldn’t ever need to exercise authority.** Just as we, as nothing more then citizens, don’t exercise authority over our President (or Prime Minister). We are allowed a vote. We are allowed a say but ultimately the final authority lies in our appointed officials hands**.
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Intriguing.
So Catholic marriage is like the democratic system.
That must mean that wives can vote their head/leaders out of office if the heads don’t perform well.
You learn something new every day;)
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Intriguing.
So Catholic marriage is like the democratic system.
That must mean that wives can vote their head/leaders out of office if the heads don’t perform well.
You learn something new every day;)
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Hee. I do believe this has happened in many cases.

My view of submission is not as extreme as a fundamentalist view of submission. There are limits. I do not believe submission means allowing yourself to be abused.
 
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
You want an example, all right:
What if a man has a nervous breakdown and becomes a danger to himself and others?
Should his wife be able to have him committed (or sent somewhere else where he won’t hurt anyone)?

What if a man is badly injured (and can’t give consent as a result) should his wife be able to tell the doctors what to do?
nickybr38 said:
Of course. To both.
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Then I am glad we agree that a wife must sometimes (at least under special circumstances) exercise authority over her husband.
 
nickybr38 said:
Hee. I do believe this has happened in many cases.

My view of submission is not as extreme as a fundamentalist view of submission. There are limits. I do not believe submission means allowing yourself to be abused.
Click to expand...
Yes, some of those Fundamentalist Churches are downright vile:mad:
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
You want an example, all right:
What if a man has a nervous breakdown and becomes a danger to himself and others?
Should his wife be able to have him committed (or sent somewhere else where he won’t hurt anyone)?

What if a man is badly injured (and can’t give consent as a result) should his wife be able to tell the doctors what to do?

Then I am glad we agree that a wife must sometimes (at least under special circumstances) exercise authority over her husband.
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If he is unconscious or not in his right mind is she really exercising authority over him? Or simply picking up where he cannot.
 
The_Curt_Jester said:
There were plenty of boys all the time. When girls were allowed, the boys left en masse. If anyone knows anything about teenage boys and girls, they’d understand how this happens
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Uh, usually when teenage girls show up you can’t get teenage boys to leave. I think you have things backward.

Our Parish has some cute young women serving in this capacity, if I were 20 years younger I’d have signed on as altar boy simply for that reason. 😊
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
But who gets to decide what’s abusive?
The man perhaps?
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The woman, of course. 🙂 Choosing to submit does not mean turning off your brain. Submission is no easy thing you know? It takes a great deal of self control and courage.
 
Geist said:
Uh, usually when teenage girls show up you can’t get teenage boys to leave. I think you have things backward.

Our Parish has some cute young women serving in this capacity, if I were 20 years younger I’d have signed on as altar boy simply for that reason. 😊
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Haha! This made me smile. 😃
 
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