Women's Ordination Heresy?

[davidv]

A saint as I understand it is simply one who has entered heaven directly, that is to say, one who, though entering directly, bypasses Purgatory. This sainthood is one differentiated from the sainthood conferred upon people, thought to exemplify some characteristic that humanly is made possible by God’s grace, no matter the circumstances involved.

Am I a leader, though I hold no office, or title? Absolutely, no one else will render an account of all my sins before God on the day of my own particular judgement–I am the authority of my own life. No one need confer upon me a title, or require me to set-up an office.

The same is true for sainthood. If you enter heaven, then you will either reside in Purgatory, or not. The Catholic Church’s requirements for classifying the life a person lived as “blessed”, or “beatified”, or “canonized” is nothing requisite for sainthood. You simply must neither go to Hell, nor to Purgatory.

At the risk of derailing this third further, if I understand canonization correctly, declaring someone a Saint makes no statement whatever about whether they went directly to heaven or had to be purified in purgatory. It only state definitively that they are in heaven.

 

[fix]

I will answer that after you have told me whether you see female ordination to be a sin…also is it biblically [spelling ] stated that a woman cannot be a priest. If so then please show me where.

If one understands the Church has taught it is impossible then obstinate doubt or rejection of that teaching would be a sin.

This comes down to understanding who is the authority behind the Church. It is Christ. To reject this teaching would be to refuse to submit to what Christ is revealing to us.

Just one other thing that also troubles me is the entire ‘process’ of sainthood declaration by the pope…3 miracles ect.ect. Do i need to accept this catholic teaching considering that St Paul talks about us [believers] all being saints !!! To me it appears as if catholics are ‘doubting’ whether OR rather questioning whether the person has ‘made it’ into heaven.
I never seem to have this problem…take my loving , devout gran who passed away a while ago…i am convinced she , and other family members are indeed in heaven ; i do not doubt at all. Why don’t i doubt? Probably because i am catholic and was always taught that GOD is a loving GOD who went to prepare a place for my gran !!! That is why i find the entire sainthood issue to be ‘a mystery’ ?! Perhaps a wise soul could elaborate for us ! Peace to all this easter time !

Yes, the canonization of saints is something we must assent to as it is taught by the magisterium. These canonized persons we know for sure are in heaven. For every other soul we do not know for sure. We can have a good hope are loved ones are in heaven, but we still pray for their souls.

 

[mikeledes]

The ordination of women violates the established parctice of the Church, a practice established by Christ Himself. Enough said.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Kristopher]

… if I understand canonization correctly, declaring someone a Saint makes no statement whatever about whether they went directly to heaven or had to be purified in purgatory. …

David,

I referenced the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) at the following URL: vatican.va to at least construct a believable arguement against your claim, that " … declaring someone a Saint makes no statement whatever about whether they went directly to heaven or had to be purified in purgatory. … ".

You might visit this site yourself, and read the following paragraphs: 823-829 under the heading–II. The Church is Holy. You will undoubtedly recognize the importance of holiness in a persons life, and continuous reference to the perfection of holiness, not only of God, but also of those whom the Catholic Church has noted as perfect in their holiness, as well.

I will first give a synopsis of those paragraphs, that I will use to construct an arguement for sainthood definitively meaning: a soul departed from its body, not to reside in Purgatory, but to reside in Heaven, apart from Purgatory.

" … The Church . . . is held, as a matter of faith, to be unfailingly holy. This is because Christ, the Son of God, who with the Father and the Spirit is hailed as ‘alone holy,’ loved the Church as his Bride, giving himself up for her so as to sanctify her; he joined her to himself as his body and endowed her with the gift of the Holy Spirit for the glory of God." … The Church, then, is “the holy People of God, … and her members are called “saints.” … United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. … all the faithful, whatever their condition or state - though each in his own way - are called by the Lord to that perfection of sanctity by which the Father himself is perfect.” … LOVE, IN FACT, IS THE VOCATION WHICH INCLUDES ALL OTHERS; IT’S A UNIVERSE OF ITS OWN, COMPRISING ALL TIME AND SPACE - IT’S ETERNAL! … The Church, however, clasping sinners to her bosom, at once holy and always in need of purification, follows constantly the path of penance and renewal. … By canonizing some of the faithful, … the Church recognizes the power of the Spirit of holiness within her and sustains the hope of believers by proposing the saints to them as models and intercessors. … holiness is the hidden source and infallible measure of her apostolic activity and missionary zeal. … in the most Blessed Virgin the Church has already reached that perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle, the faithful still strive to conquer sin and increase in holiness. And so they turn their eyes to Mary … in her, the Church is already the ‘all-holy.’"

Purgatory, you may know, exists for those, whom Hell is unwarranted; yet, the account of sins on their souls does warrant punishment, pain, a more intense burning in the fire of love, that is the Holy Spirit, which to all sin must feel painful, not much different than chlorine in a swimming pool burning and drying flesh, but killing bacteria, that might cause further harm beyond the damage done of Chlorine, as it burns skin; dries hair. Purgatory is painful; though, it is heaven. You might have experienced intense emotional, perhaps even physical pain, that caused you in anguish, such as the Agony in the Garden, to cry out to God for relief, for mercy, for love–you became as it were purified in this suffering, and anguish–purifying your decisions to wallow in misery to instead, turn your anguish toward God. Such is the nature of Purgatory, though, the pain is beyond imagination.

Sainthood is warranted as transcendant of Purgatory, due to the Holiness one has obtained, while living with soul and body united, on earth. It can be no other way, in consideration of the point, that saints exemplify people, that have answered the call of God, to love him, to serve him, to become as God: perfect in all holiness. How then in light of the Beatitudes, would it be possible for such holiness on earth to go unrewarded in heaven?

It would make no sense given the existence of Purgatory to rely upon intercession from those, for whom we ourselves are to pray, that the souls of those in Purgatory might be released; done in the power, and with the power, and by the power of Jesus’ name.

Whatever risk there might be in “debunking” this point–have at it!

 

[Kristopher]

… The ordination of women violates the established parctice of the Church, a practice established by Christ Himself. …

I do not understand why you say, “enough said”. You assert, that the ordination of women as priestesses would in some way violate an established practice of the Church. This does not make any sense at all, but you have nothing to say about this? You in my opinion, ought to have something to say about this. You ought at the least be able to substantiate what you say, to make it more than what appears to me, to be an empty assertion.

I see no violation of the established practice of men being ordained to the priesthood; were there to be women ordained to the priesthood. Given the quote from the USCCB–there is simply no authority on the part of the Church to ordain women into the priesthood. Women ordained as priestesses violates no one, nothing, established or unestablished: it is something simply too far out of the reach of the Catholic Church to do–there is no authority to warrant it; therefore, it may not be done, but must remain outside the authority of the Church: largely do to the reason, that no one seems able to explain the importance of it being outside the reach of the Church’s authority.

It would appear to be a poor analogy, because we have an explanation, but we have Genesis, and the account of light being created: God said in a word, “amen”: so be it; and it was, and it is, and it will be. What is the explanation for this? Implicitly, God wanted to enjoy his existence, with the existence of others, and there you have it.

What if any, explanation is there to say, women are outside the authority of the Church to ordain as priestesses, because such-and-such a reality does exist, that it should be: women may not be ordained into the priesthood, but must in fact always remain excluded from this element of the clergy?

I have no idea. I would like an idea. I trust that there is an explanation; though it may have been given, I seem to have missed it. It seems; it is very plain; this is a simple matter of God saying, it is so; it will be so; accept it as so, because you are my children, and because I said so. There is no violation of anything. There is no inferiority or superiority about the matter. There is no lack of skill, or accomplishment. No emasculation involved with such a practice were it to exist as legitimate. It simply is God saying, “amen”, and there you have it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

What if any, explanation is there to say, women are outside the authority of the Church to ordain as priestesses, because such-and-such a reality does exist, that it should be: women may not be ordained into the priesthood, but must in fact always remain excluded from this element of the clergy?

Public revelation ended with the death of Saint John, the last of the Apostles. No power the Church did not have at that time can be added. Therefore, the matter is closed.

The Church does not have the power to ordain women, and this must be accepted definitively by all the faithful.