Wording of the Apostles' Creed

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Tis_Bearself

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Recently I have heard at least two priests say the Apostles’ Creed at the beginning of the Rosary substituting the words, “He descended to the dead” for “He descended into Hell”.

Since this is a new wording that I hadn’t heard before, I thought the USCCB had perhaps changed the words of the prayer; however, their version still says “into Hell”, not “to the dead”.

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/prayers-and-devotions/rosaries/prayers-of-the-rosary.cfm

Has anybody else heard a priest pray the Creed with the words “To the Dead” rather than “Into Hell”?

I’m not going to get all wound up about it if they do, although I will continue to say the prayer with the words I’ve been using since I first memorized it around age 11 or so, “into Hell”. I know what it means.
 
Well, the issue is that “hell” the word used by the Greek original text does not mean “the Hell of the damned” that we use now days. In the original text the meaning was “the place of the dead” where all the souls would be waiting for the Messiah.
Hope this helps.
Peace!
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Has anybody else heard a priest pray the Creed with the words “To the Dead” rather than “Into Hell”?
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In my country “to the Hell” is older version… kinda. In reality word for Hell here is not same we use for Christian Hell but for any Hell in any mythology or Christian one. For example we would not say Hades (Greek Pagan deity) resides in [Christian word for Hell] but in [general word for Hell]. One could however say Satan is in [general word for Hell] and it causes no problems.

Currently we pray “to the Dead” in Liturgies and outside them. Though I can imagine someone doing the first one out of habit.
JerryZ said:
Well, the issue is that “hell” the word used by the Greek original text does not mean “the Hell of the damned” that we use now days.
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Our Priest often says Gehenna when talking original Hell during Homilies. He quite explains what it is too so we do not feel confused. It’s very nice.
 
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In spanish, saying “Infiernos” (Hells) is the standard version.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Has anybody else heard a priest pray the Creed with the words “To the Dead” rather than “Into Hell”?
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I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a priest so pray, but I have certainly seen such resources – particularly those aimed toward children prone to giggle at naughty words* – since at least the 1970’s.

And from the occasional vocabulary questions here on CAF, I expect there will continue to people who pray it in one way or the other and wonder who is “right”.
Digression on other prayer translations
Similarly with the St Michael Prayer – Some folks invoke his help by “Divine Power” while others invoke his help by “the Power of God”; they beseech him to “cast” evil spirits into hell or to “thrust” them there; some of those evil spirits would otherwise “prowl about” the world while others would “wander through” the world.

I, myself, when I pray in English, am a “Power of God”/“thrust”/“wander”-er

And when I pray the Salve Regina in English, I sometimes feel lonely as I mourn and weep in a “vale” rather than the more popular “valley” of tears.
But that was my 1970’s catechesis. 🤷‍♂️
*
Are there still such children? Or are 21st century children inured to bad words?
 
AlbMagno said:
In spanish, saying “Infiernos” (Hells) is the standard version.
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A curious case where Spanish and Portuguese have parted company. In Portuguese, it has always been “he descended to the abode of the dead,” desceu à mansão dos mortos.
 
As kids we used to say “to Hell”. My dad told us that Christ “descended into Hell” after His Crucifixion to set free the saints who couldn’t get into Heaven because it was locked (that was how he explained it to us when we were young children).

I’ve never heard a priest say it, though. I’m glad its making a come back.
 
Those who say “He descended to the dead” are saying the original meaning of the prayer.
 
JerryZ said:
Well, the issue is that “hell” the word used by the Greek original text does not mean “the Hell of the damned” that we use now days. In the original text the meaning was “the place of the dead” where all the souls would be waiting for the Messiah.
Hope this helps.
Peace!
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It doesnt help, as that is besides the point. The issue is instead, that clergy seem to be taking inappropriate liberties. Besides, the OP said that she knows what the word means.
 
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When I learned it in English it was “to the dead”.

I think it’s more appropriate. As you know, the Hell referenced in the Creed is Sheol, where the souls of all the dead went after death. Saying he descended into Hell runs the risk of implying he descended to the Hell of the damned, and requires some explanation. I’ve seen it written in both forms.
 
Martin Connell has more than you ever want to know about this. The most important part of it is a change in the 4th century:
A consequential vocabulary change appeared in Rufinus’s work. He was one of the first to use the word inferna, “hell,” not the more ancient inferos, “lower world,” for the confession of faith by which many would come to know of the descent. This word shift was a key contribution to subsequent changes in the meaning and theology of the descent, for the earlier usage of inferos, “lower world,” indicated that God’s grace would reach beyond the confines of human limits to such a great extent that even time itself would not be a barrier to God’s love. The use of inferos indicates that in Christ God saves even those who had lived before the Incarnation. The move to Rufinus’s word inferna, “hell,” would start to change the result of the descent from one of God’s presence with the dead to a belief in Christ’s reconciliation of sinners.
Martin F. Connell. Theological Studies 2001
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This site has a comparison of the 1970 version (to the dead), the 2008 we use now, and the pre-1970 version.

For 40 years, to the dead was the accepted form that most people learned. Most likely do not know it was changed with the new translation of the Roman Missal.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Recently I have heard at least two priests say the Apostles’ Creed at the beginning of the Rosary substituting the words, “He descended to the dead” for “He descended into Hell”. …
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Yes, it varies.

Latin descendit ad inferna, from Rufinus, circa. 390 A.D. and the Gallican Sacramentary circa 650 A.D.

Latin Vulgate, Ephesians 4:
9 Quod autem ascendit, quid est, nisi quia et descendit primum in inferiores partes terrae?
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First, yes I’m aware that Christ went to the region of the dead, not the region of the damned. This is just a question about wording used n the Creed. I do not necessarily think the wording “To the dead” is wrong, I just never heard it before and have no desire to say it that way myself, even though one could, as the Rosary is a private devotion.

Second, Thanks for those who pointed out the 1970s version of the prayer. I was unaware there was a 1970s version because the only time I heard the Apostles’ Creed in the 1970s and the only time I hear it today is at the start of the Rosary. The only people I knew who were praying Rosaries out loud in the 1970s were older more traditional Catholics (my parents, old ladies at church, etc) who invariably said “descended into Hell”. Additionally I had two children’s prayer books my mother had given me that were old (One of them which I received in the early 1970s for a First Communion gift had pictures of a priest saying what appeared to be OF Mass ad orientem) and both said “Into Hell”. So that is how I learned the prayer.

Using “to the dead” sounds like a typical 1970s thing. There was a general motivation to remove mentions of “hell” on the basis that it would either scare children or make them giggle because Hell was considered a “naughty word” etc. Prayers like the St. Michael Prayer were never said.

Edited to add, I checked the three versions Dovekin posted. I never heard anyone pray that 1970s version through the whole 1970s. I heard the pre-1970s version exclusively, except some people would say “Holy Spirit” instead of “Holy Ghost”.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
I just never heard it before and have no desire to say it that way myself, even though one could, as the Rosary is a private devotion.
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How nice. When I pray our Father privately I tend to say words in different order, as one we use when we pray in Church is a bit archaic (it is actually word by word translation from Latin and it makes perfect sense, yet we would say “be thy glory” and not “be glory thy” in current language). However, since I am only one who prays it this way, whenever I pray with others I just use standard version.

Prayers are between God and those who pray… as long as there is no risk of heresy involved, both forms are okay. Though it is true that if one is authorized for Liturgy, that form should be used. In Liturgy, if someone uses older form out of habit or so, it is alright. If someone does so to resist the new one or out of being stubborn, it is a problem. Intentions decide everything.
 
I pray the Flame of Love variation of the Hail Mary on all my Rosaries. It is supposed to be beneficial to the Holy Souls. When praying with a group I will pray the variant part softly so as not to throw off the group. It doesn’t come up when I lead because the variant is in the second half of the prayer. The Flame of Love devotion was approved here by the previous Archbishop Chaput so it is okay to pray.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Recently I have heard at least two priests say the Apostles’ Creed at the beginning of the Rosary substituting the words, “He descended to the dead” for “He descended into Hell”.
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If you actually look at the ancient Greek form of the Apostle’s Creed, as well as the scripture verses from which that clause seems to be taken, it would appear to me that “He descended to the dead,” is actually a more accurate translation into English, both on a syntactical level and theological level. I personally think it would be better to use the “Descended to the dead” version as it is more true to scripture.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Might have been official, but I never in my life heard anybody in the USA pray it that way until last month.
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I can’t explain your own experience, but that has been the only translation used at Mass in the United States for almost four decades. You may not have been alive for four decades yet. Depends on how young you were at the time the 2011 change took effect.
 
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