Working Hours

[JMJ_coder]

Another point to make - work location. The general assumption is that work is done at the office, store, factory, or some other similar location. But what about the home?

I am of the opinion that the home is the very best workplace. It allows for a much more organic integration of work into life.

A couple hundred years ago, society was structured around the farm and village. Towards the end of the 18th century to the beginning of the 20th century a great migration took place due to the Industrial Revolution. Now, society is more-or-less urban-centric. But, with technology, we have the ability for even non-agrarian jobs to telecommute.

Also, don’t forget that not all work pays wages. The mother cooking a meal or a father tending the garden - all work. Building a desk for the home office - work. Shoveling snow in the winter, mowing the lawn in the summer, raking leaves in the autumn - work, work, work.

 

[JMJ_coder]

I also think that many in Europe (at least in the older traditions) have a much more natural rhythm to life than we do. A prime example of this is lunch and the siesta. The largest meal of the day is lunch, which is usually a large family (extended!) around a single table (or more depending on the size of the family). After the meal, the siesta is taken as a time of leisure and rest.

This setup of allowing family to bond during the day aids the forming of strong familial ties, which is the foundation of society.

 

[rlg94086]

I also think that many in Europe (at least in the older traditions) have a much more natural rhythm to life than we do. A prime example of this is lunch and the siesta. The largest meal of the day is lunch, which is usually a large family (extended!) around a single table (or more depending on the size of the family). After the meal, the siesta is taken as a time of leisure and rest.

This setup of allowing family to bond during the day aids the forming of strong familial ties, which is the foundation of society.

Don’t over-generalize regarding “Europe.” My experiences in the UK, Germany and the Netherlands were standard lunch breaks, just like the US.

 

[Biggie]

Wow! I am back to whatever happened to Ora et Labora? I believe work sanctifies, and having work is a blessing. And back to all this excessive worry about leisure time is a function of prosperity and not need. Rewind to the Great Depression. That’s what the absence of work is like.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, JMJ_coder,

Sounds like you have had some rather rough experiences. While I am not really sure about all that took place or the length of time that was involved - I am pretty confident that you could have used some good advice at the time.

I had a job for a manufacturing company as a general laborer. The working conditions were deplorable - at least as psychological abuse goes.

My guess is that you were not covered under a union agreement. If this is the case, all is not lost. I think abusive work conditions really does fall under the authority of the Department of Labor. If for no other reason then learning how to address a similar situation, you may want to contact these folks to see what you could have or should have done.

Finally, I injured myself on the job (back injury). I couldn’t prove I was hurt on the job because the symptoms didn’t come on until after I got home that night (I think my chiropractor was paid by workman’s comp, though).

Painful though it may be, if you fail to follow the law, you are basically giving up the protection the law provides. To the best of my knowledge, every US employer must post in a public area (like by the time clock) what is to be done if someone thinks they may have been injured at the job site. For many, notifiying the supervisor is the first step. It does not matter if the even was witnessed or not - by notifying the supervisor you establish your rights to a legitimate claim should something develop. Additionally, your employer has an obligation to investigate the matter to see how the company could have prevented the accident in the first place. While some back injuries may involved some ‘minor’ interventions - some folks do wind up with a life time of pain and suffering as a result of the injury. While all the money on earth will not make the pain or lack of motion go away - having no money isn’t going to make better.

I am also guessing that there may have been room in this activity for an attorney representing your intersts.

After that, they had no use for me. They turned that into such a hostile work environment with the intent of inciting me to leave (I don’t think they could legally fire me at the time). Finally I quit, though by my own fault (from a combination of eagerness to get out of that situation and inexperience) I left the door open for them to get out of paying unemployment.

Sounds like you are not satisfyied with the way this matter finally resolved. From the way I read what you wrote, it sounded like quitting was more of an impulsive act rather then a thoughtful selection from alternatives. This is unfortunte - but, again, if the lessons from your example are not learned now, they will never be learned.

The good news is that you are away from your abusive employer. The next step is to find employment. While today’s economy has been rough on a number of folks, there are always opportunities for those willing to move themselves forward. Find ways to improve your education is usually a good first step. Contact your parish priest and talk to him about your situation and see what counsel he can offer.

God bless.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Don’t over-generalize regarding “Europe.” My experiences in the UK, Germany and the Netherlands were standard lunch breaks, just like the US.

I was relating more to southern Europe - and in particular Italy; and in particular, southern Italy (I could get more particular, but that’s particular enough ).

 

[JMJ_coder]

Wow! I am back to whatever happened to Ora et Labora? I believe work sanctifies, and having work is a blessing. And back to all this excessive worry about leisure time is a function of prosperity and not need. Rewind to the Great Depression. That’s what the absence of work is like.

A desire for leisure is not a function of a despise of work. If you look at the monastics, where “ora et labora” came from, it was not meant to mean primarily that work is a form of prayer - though it does certainly have that meaning. It meant primarily that the monks were either working or they were praying. Look at Mother Teresa’s religious order - I believe that it is written in their constitutions that if a sister is not engaged in some other occupation, that she is to be praying the rosary.

Look at the schedule for many a monastery. Generally the monks will work in their given trade or duty for 3-6 hours a day. Another 1-3 hours of leisure and the rest of the time is spent in prayer or study.

Of course, we should pray always, whether working or sleeping or recreating, always pray without ceasing (but that is fodder for yet another thread).

 

[JMJ_coder]

@tqualey:

I mainly posted that as an example that not everyone has a wonderful job that they want to give their life to - but the employer more-or-less tries to steal your life until you are of no more value to them.

Sure things could have (and should have) been handled differently - but they were aware of the situation, I reported it within 24 hours to my immediate supervisor, and it came down in the end to them basically firing me - but again, eagerness to escape and inexperience on my part left me out in the cold.

But, that is behind me - it happened a while ago. But, since that was my second injury to my back (same type of injury) I don’t think I have a future in general labor. But, I am back in college and have an internship/job that offers enormous potential for experience and advancement.

Again for me, I believe that the home is the best workplace. I am striving to be able to work via telecommuting - my field is computer science (focusing on systems and embedded programming and systems administration). So there is definitely the potential there.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, JMJ_coder

But, I am back in college and have an internship/job that offers enormous potential for experience and advancement.

I think this is the ‘take home message’ - finding ways to increase the number of opportunities one has is the challenge of a life time. Few have jobs that they embrace each day and stick with for 40+ years - most have had a dozen or so jobs during their working lives. We are not like our great grand and grand parents. There is a real cultural shift throughtout not only our society but for all of the industrialized world that I am aware of. (Even Japan gave up it long-held concept of 'life-time-employmet!).

Best wishes in school - and, if I may so bold - look for opportunities to talk to your friends and neighbors who are also laborers. You have a chance ot set a truly meaningful example to these other men.

God bless

 

[Biggie]

A desire for leisure is not a function of a despise of work. If you look at the monastics, where “ora et labora” came from, it was not meant to mean primarily that work is a form of prayer - though it does certainly have that meaning. It meant primarily that the monks were either working or they were praying. Look at Mother Teresa’s religious order - I believe that it is written in their constitutions that if a sister is not engaged in some other occupation, that she is to be praying the rosary.

Look at the schedule for many a monastery. Generally the monks will work in their given trade or duty for 3-6 hours a day. Another 1-3 hours of leisure and the rest of the time is spent in prayer or study.

Of course, we should pray always, whether working or sleeping or recreating, always pray without ceasing (but that is fodder for yet another thread).

I am saying that the desire for leisure is a function of prosperity. When you’ve got time on your hands, you can worry about leisure. Just looking for some recognition of that. But in some venues, the vacation rises to the sanctity of a sacrament, and I think that does not recognize the perilous nature of life, the need to work to sustain it, the fact that a job is not a right and the condition of the poor.

 

[JMJ_coder]

I am saying that the desire for leisure is a function of prosperity. When you’ve got time on your hands, you can worry about leisure. Just looking for some recognition of that. But in some venues, the vacation rises to the sanctity of a sacrament, and I think that does not recognize the perilous nature of life, the need to work to sustain it, the fact that a job is not a right and the condition of the poor.

Maybe some forms of leisure are a function of prosperity - such as boating or hot-rodding, but not leisure in itself. Everyone needs some leisure. God Himself has deigned this. One day out of every seven is sanctified for worship of God and for man to rest. The Church also recommends people to make retreats (usually, these lasts for a number of days) and set aside time for reflection and meditation.

Though, I do admit that there are many who are deprived of these basic needs of man by the situation that they find themselves in. And we must strive to aid our brethren who find themselves in such conditions.

 

[Biggie]

Maybe some forms of leisure are a function of prosperity - such as boating or hot-rodding, but not leisure in itself. Everyone needs some leisure. God Himself has deigned this. One day out of every seven is sanctified for worship of God and for man to rest. The Church also recommends people to make retreats (usually, these lasts for a number of days) and set aside time for reflection and meditation.

Though, I do admit that there are many who are deprived of these basic needs of man by the situation that they find themselves in. And we must strive to aid our brethren who find themselves in such conditions.

I’m not arguing with the need for leisure or even the type of leisure, but with the emphasis on it. I am suggesting that many people are out there - many - making 7.00 or 8.00 / hr., working two jobs with spouses working trying to raise a family with all that entails. They try to put their kids in a parochial school and find that they are sent by the diocese to a bank where if they can get credit and default, they are subject to litigation. They go to the parish to ask for help and the parish makes them appear before a board where they have to review their life style in front of fellow parishioners to prove their worthiness for a tuition break. If they work on a parish committee they are treated to arguments over what to do to fellow parishioners who are not “pulling their weight”. The best schools in the diocese are almost the exclusive domain of the well to do. They go to Mass and hear about their responsibility to be “stewards”, and then fellow parishioners take the pulpit and talk about how they give. Now, we can tell them they have a moral responsibilty to take a vacation and renew themselves.

In response to that I can only say it wasn’t always that way. There was a time when the Church understood the needs of families and understood what it meant to be a common man. The Church really isn’t all about finances.

It’s the attitude I object to. So for those who have the grace of a good job and have time for leisure, I just counter with the need to see the value of work, to work as though it’s prayer, and to thank God through the effort given in response to his gift.

 

[cynic]

“leisure” has all sorts of connatations of being a lazy slob in front of the telly, or sitting in a hot tub.

For a lot of people “leisure” can just mean having the opportunity be outside for more than a few minutes a day, maybe see some blue sky, or an occasional 10 minute conversation with a friend (like once a week).

 

[thomfra]

But in some venues, the vacation rises to the sanctity of a sacrament, and I think that does not recognize the perilous nature of life, the need to work to sustain it, the fact that a job is not a right and the condition of the poor.

Here in scandinavia holidays are just about a sacrament. I don’t think I have ever had anyone question when or for how long I take leave. Quite amazing really. But the wheels keep turning (albiet a little slower in July/August).

Life is perilous - All the more reason to live in the moment, take those holidays/trips/time with family while you have the chance. Obvioulsy it’s a balancing act. depends on your job as well.

 

[Biggie]

Here in scandinavia holidays are just about a sacrament. I don’t think I have ever had anyone question when or for how long I take leave. Quite amazing really. But the wheels keep turning (albiet a little slower in July/August).

Life is perilous - All the more reason to live in the moment, take those holidays/trips/time with family while you have the chance. Obvioulsy it’s a balancing act. depends on your job as well.

You know, in reality I’m not disagreeing with you at all.When I smell success at work (i.e. advancement, increases, etc.) I personally tend to lose persepective and go for it. It’s something the Lord has been smacking me around on for a large part of my working life (ambition) and something he makes me work on through various set backs. My personal struggle, if you will.

But having come up the hard way from very basic roots, I do have this abiding appreciation for work, a sense that all work has dignity and an appreciation for the labors of others.

Hey, I’ve mellowed a lot as I got older and took my lumps, so imagine what I was like when I was young and green!

 

[JMJ_coder]

I’m not arguing with the need for leisure or even the type of leisure, but with the emphasis on it. I am suggesting that many people are out there - many - making 7.00 or 8.00 / hr., working two jobs with spouses working trying to raise a family with all that entails. They try to put their kids in a parochial school and find that they are sent by the diocese to a bank where if they can get credit and default, they are subject to litigation. They go to the parish to ask for help and the parish makes them appear before a board where they have to review their life style in front of fellow parishioners to prove their worthiness for a tuition break. If they work on a parish committee they are treated to arguments over what to do to fellow parishioners who are not “pulling their weight”. The best schools in the diocese are almost the exclusive domain of the well to do. They go to Mass and hear about their responsibility to be “stewards”, and then fellow parishioners take the pulpit and talk about how they give. Now, we can tell them they have a moral responsibilty to take a vacation and renew themselves.

In response to that I can only say it wasn’t always that way. There was a time when the Church understood the needs of families and understood what it meant to be a common man. The Church really isn’t all about finances.

It’s the attitude I object to. So for those who have the grace of a good job and have time for leisure, I just counter with the need to see the value of work, to work as though it’s prayer, and to thank God through the effort given in response to his gift.

Wow! When did we take the 90-degree turn to parish and parochial financial aid.

 

[Biggie]

You know, I dunno how that happened.