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Soutane
Guest
Is belief a work?
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Scoobyshme
Guest
It depends on what you mean by “belief.” If you mean “faith” then I would say works is a part of salvific faith (as opposed to “lip service” faith which is not salvific).
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Soutane
Guest
I believe that Belief is faith acted out in love or charity or works.Tout la meme chose.It depends on what you mean by “belief.” If you mean “faith” then I would say works is a part of salvific faith (as opposed to “lip service” faith which is not salvific).
I believe that Acknowledgement is not True Faith.And that it is part and parcel of the heresy of OSAS that will have dire consequences for its adherents/proponents-“Lord,Lord,…”,etc.
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Soutane
Guest
I REALLY like this part:
“Or to use different words faith, if it is true, if it is real, becomes love, becomes charity, is expressed in charity. A faith without charity, without this fruit, would not be true faith. It would be a dead faith.”
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Bookcat
Guest
I will tell Pope Benedict XVI when we next chat over coffeeI REALLY like this part:
“Or to use different words faith, if it is true, if it is real, becomes love, becomes charity, is expressed in charity. A faith without charity, without this fruit, would not be true faith. It would be a dead faith.”
Ya the whole text is great! As are the rest of his audiences…and homilies etc…
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Bookcat
Guest
Another snippet from those audiences
“In this context it is important that St Paul, in the same Letter to the Galatians radically accentuates, on the one hand, the freely given nature of justification that is not dependent on our works, but which at the same time also emphasizes the relationship between faith and charity, between faith and works: “In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love” (Gal 5: 6). Consequently, there are on the one hand “works of the flesh”, which are “immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry…” (Gal 5: 19-20): all works that are contrary to the faith; on the other, there is the action of the Holy Spirit who nourishes Christian life, inspiring “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control” (Gal 5: 22-23). These are the fruits of the Spirit that blossom from faith.”
“In this context it is important that St Paul, in the same Letter to the Galatians radically accentuates, on the one hand, the freely given nature of justification that is not dependent on our works, but which at the same time also emphasizes the relationship between faith and charity, between faith and works: “In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love” (Gal 5: 6). Consequently, there are on the one hand “works of the flesh”, which are “immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry…” (Gal 5: 19-20): all works that are contrary to the faith; on the other, there is the action of the Holy Spirit who nourishes Christian life, inspiring “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control” (Gal 5: 22-23). These are the fruits of the Spirit that blossom from faith.”
J
John7
Guest
I think it is a work because of
John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him,
What shall we do,
that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God,
that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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Soutane
Guest
Excellent reply:thumbsup:I’m going to memorize that one.Thanks very much:thumbsup:
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Ignatius
Guest
Absolutely yes, faith is a work.
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Bookcat
Guest
But not in the sense that Paul used…as in ‘works of the Torah’…
and remember too that Faith can be taken in differing senses…
for instance…Faith is a gift from God…infused into us
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Soutane
Guest
Faith is a free gift from the limitless grace of our dear Lord that we can accept by “enduring to the end” or reject by committing unreconciled mortal sin.Faith is a choice,is a decision,is a work.But not in the sense that Paul used…as in ‘works of the Torah’…
and remember too that Faith can be taken in differing senses…
for instance…Faith is a gift from God…infused into us
B
Bookcat
Guest
Again different aspects of Faith can be looked at…and different senses.
Yes man is involved in Faith…but it is still a gift …a grace…even when we hold fast to the end for the very grace of perservering to the end is a grace …a gift.
In Paul’s sense …we are saved by Faith (read Pope Benedict XVI above links on the details…very important) and we do not earn it …it is not a work in that sense. But yes we must live in charity and by grace perservere to the end…by his grace…
We are justified by faith not the works of the law…and we then follow Christ and live in charity …of course avoiding mortal sin (by commission or omission) and remain in Christ to the end…by his grace.
Catechism:179 Faith is a supernatural gift from God. In order to believe, man needs the interior helps of the Holy Spirit.
as Paul writes:
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
(Philip 2:12-13 RSV CE)
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Bookcat
Guest
One must understand what Paul means by Faith (and what he does not)…these two texts are key to understanding what he means. Read together…and pondered lovingly…slowly…
I invite all to these fine articulations…
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html
I invite all to these fine articulations…
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html
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Bookcat
Guest
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Pax
Guest
Faith and love are both works.
In John’s vision in the book of Revelation, just before addressing the transgressions of the church at Thyatira, Jesus says in Rev 2:19 that,
In John’s vision in the book of Revelation, just before addressing the transgressions of the church at Thyatira, Jesus says in Rev 2:19 that,
Paul also says that faith is a work in 1 Thess 1:2-3 where he says:
I hope this helps.
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