World financial system is ‘new idolatry,’ cardinal tells forum

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catholicphilly.com/2014/06/news/national-news/world-financial-system-is-new-idolatry-cardinal-tells-forum/

So if y’all have seen this yet Capitalism has been condemned as unjust to the poor and become the new form of Idolatry. Honestly this is not news to me at all but Im having some issues and Im at a cross roads in my life.

First off I am extremely politically active. I am a PoliSci major so its just part of my day to day. My problem is that I have no idea who to vote for anymore. I grew up typical conservative and in college shifted much more libertarian. Please know though that I am only libertarian to the extent that my faith lets me be. I do not support gay marriage, abortion or anything that violates social teaching but I am in favor of smaller government intervention in many aspects of peoples lives. My problem is that there is absolutely no party or potential candidate that I could possible vote for in good conscious. The left wing is completely morally gone, the right wing likes to parade around thinking they are christian while they neglect the poor and start illegal wars where hundreds of thousands are killed. Im having trouble knowing what to do. I do like Rand and Ron Paul because they seem to be good men and actually want to return back to our foundlings principles but I get backlash from other catholics saying they are too libertarian. Tell me then who is a better option? Are whole political system is rigged, corrupted and controlled by the super rich. We are in political turmoil. The west is falling into heavy secularism and moral decay. We wage endless wars. We have absolutely no money.

I don’t know I just feel hopeless for our country. One side wants full state control, the other wants full corporate control and the libertarians want anarchy. Non of those to me sound good at all. There is not political system compatible with Catholicism but I can’t go around supporting some catholic monarchy because thats never going to happen.

Sorry for the rant. here is my real question. Is it possible to even vote anymore in good conscious without violating Catholic morals?
 
LoganBice said:
catholicphilly.com/2014/06/news/national-news/world-financial-system-is-new-idolatry-cardinal-tells-forum/

So if y’all have seen this yet Capitalism has been condemned as unjust to the poor and become the new form of Idolatry. Honestly this is not news to me at all but Im having some issues and Im at a cross roads in my life.

First off I am extremely politically active. I am a PoliSci major so its just part of my day to day. My problem is that I have no idea who to vote for anymore. I grew up typical conservative and in college shifted much more libertarian. Please know though that I am only libertarian to the extent that my faith lets me be. I do not support gay marriage, abortion or anything that violates social teaching but I am in favor of smaller government intervention in many aspects of peoples lives. My problem is that there is absolutely no party or potential candidate that I could possible vote for in good conscious. The left wing is completely morally gone, the right wing likes to parade around thinking they are christian while they neglect the poor and start illegal wars where hundreds of thousands are killed. Im having trouble knowing what to do. I do like Rand and Ron Paul because they seem to be good men and actually want to return back to our foundlings principles but I get backlash from other catholics saying they are too libertarian. Tell me then who is a better option? Are whole political system is rigged, corrupted and controlled by the super rich. We are in political turmoil. The west is falling into heavy secularism and moral decay. We wage endless wars. We have absolutely no money.

I don’t know I just feel hopeless for our country. One side wants full state control, the other wants full corporate control and the libertarians want anarchy. Non of those to me sound good at all. There is not political system compatible with Catholicism but I can’t go around supporting some catholic monarchy because thats never going to happen.

Sorry for the rant. here is my real question. Is it possible to even vote anymore in good conscious without violating Catholic morals?
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Capitalism has not been condemned, nor should it be. Unbridled (greed) capitalism is, of course, something to condemn. I would go so far as to say that when Capitalism is operated by moral and religious people (as the fathers intended for our nation), than it is likely the best system to help the most people, including the most poor people. However, in today’s culture a somewhat unbridled capitalism has come over the nation, and that is bad. The problem with all manmade systems is that sooner or later the stain of sin upon humanity tends to bring things to a lower place.

The Church does not condemn Capitalism. Here is what Saint John Paul said about this subject:
*
The answer is obviously complex. If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy,” “market economy” or simply “free economy.” But if by “capitalism” is meant a system in which freedom in the economic sector is not circumscribed within a strong juridical framework which places it at the service of human freedom in its totality, and which sees it as a particular aspect of that freedom, the core of which is ethical and religious, then the reply is certainly negative.*
 
LoganBice said:
catholicphilly.com/2014/06/news/national-news/world-financial-system-is-new-idolatry-cardinal-tells-forum/

So if y’all have seen this yet Capitalism has been condemned as unjust to the poor and become the new form of Idolatry. Honestly this is not news to me at all but Im having some issues and Im at a cross roads in my life.

First off I am extremely politically active. I am a PoliSci major so its just part of my day to day. My problem is that I have no idea who to vote for anymore. I grew up typical conservative and in college shifted much more libertarian. Please know though that I am only libertarian to the extent that my faith lets me be. I do not support gay marriage, abortion or anything that violates social teaching but I am in favor of smaller government intervention in many aspects of peoples lives. My problem is that there is absolutely no party or potential candidate that I could possible vote for in good conscious. The left wing is completely morally gone, the right wing likes to parade around thinking they are christian while they neglect the poor and start illegal wars where hundreds of thousands are killed. Im having trouble knowing what to do. I do like Rand and Ron Paul because they seem to be good men and actually want to return back to our foundlings principles but I get backlash from other catholics saying they are too libertarian. Tell me then who is a better option? Are whole political system is rigged, corrupted and controlled by the super rich. We are in political turmoil. The west is falling into heavy secularism and moral decay. We wage endless wars. We have absolutely no money.

I don’t know I just feel hopeless for our country. One side wants full state control, the other wants full corporate control and the libertarians want anarchy. Non of those to me sound good at all. There is not political system compatible with Catholicism but I can’t go around supporting some catholic monarchy because thats never going to happen.

Sorry for the rant. here is my real question. Is it possible to even vote anymore in good conscious without violating Catholic morals?
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Consider the source, the Cardinal comes from a socialist country. All of Latin America is socialist. There is nothing wrong with Capitolism moderately applied. Capitolism must be held in check just like socialism.

Linus2nd
 
yes. just vote for whom you think is right. if he decides to abort every unborn baby tomorrow it’s not your sin because that is not what you voted him for. perfect people can only be found in one place: HEAVEN! your votes won’t count there; so vote here where it counts.
 
That’s a good point. Also I tend to look at the whole thing as not an issue with certain systems but an issue with human sin overall. If we did not sin at all then any system would be applicable.
 
pacomius said:
yes. just vote for whom you think is right. if he decides to abort every unborn baby tomorrow it’s not your sin because that is not what you voted him for. perfect people can only be found in one place: HEAVEN! your votes won’t count there; so vote here where it counts.
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“just vote for whom you think is right?”

What does that even mean? That’s like one of those priests in 1967–or 2014 God forbid puke–telling a married woman in confession to “follow your [her] conscience” when she earnestly asks about the birth control pill.

I agree that it can theoretically be permissible to vote for a candidate who supports abortion provided there is no better alternative, given that there is an explicit mental reservation that that is not why you are voting for him, but rather that you are voting for him in spite of that.

However, in any case that requires careful measurement and weighing and, in my opinion, considering every other alternative. It can’t just be, “Oh I wanna vote for Obama 'cuz I think he’s right ‘and if he decides to abort every unborn baby tomorrow it’s not [my] sin.’”

I don’t think you are technically incorrect but this message smells like flippancy.
 
Hello Logan,

I would suggest you (and anyone else reading this) read the “Voters Guide for Serious Catholics” by Catholic Answers.

catholic.com/sites/default/files/voters_guide_for_serious_catholics.pdf

When push comes to shove, I would suggest voting for the candidate who is best in line with the 5 non-negotiables listed in this guide.

No candidate is going to be 100% in line because we have a two party system. Both parties encompass many ideologies which in multi-party systems would have their own parties.

I hope this helps.

God Bless.
 
phil19034 said:
Hello Logan,

I would suggest you (and anyone else reading this) read the “Voters Guide for Serious Catholics” by Catholic Answers.

catholic.com/sites/default/files/voters_guide_for_serious_catholics.pdf

When push comes to shove, I would suggest voting for the candidate who is best in line with the 5 non-negotiables listed in this guide.

No candidate is going to be 100% in line because we have a two party system. Both parties encompass many ideologies which in multi-party systems would have their own parties.

I hope this helps.

God Bless.
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Thank You this was very helpful.
 
LoganBice said:
catholicphilly.com/2014/06/news/national-news/world-financial-system-is-new-idolatry-cardinal-tells-forum/

So if y’all have seen this yet Capitalism has been condemned as unjust to the poor and become the new form of Idolatry. Honestly this is not news to me at all but Im having some issues and Im at a cross roads in my life.

First off I am extremely politically active. I am a PoliSci major so its just part of my day to day. My problem is that I have no idea who to vote for anymore. I grew up typical conservative and in college shifted much more libertarian. Please know though that I am only libertarian to the extent that my faith lets me be. I do not support gay marriage, abortion or anything that violates social teaching but I am in favor of smaller government intervention in many aspects of peoples lives. My problem is that there is absolutely no party or potential candidate that I could possible vote for in good conscious. The left wing is completely morally gone, the right wing likes to parade around thinking they are christian while they neglect the poor and start illegal wars where hundreds of thousands are killed. Im having trouble knowing what to do. I do like Rand and Ron Paul because they seem to be good men and actually want to return back to our foundlings principles but I get backlash from other catholics saying they are too libertarian. Tell me then who is a better option? Are whole political system is rigged, corrupted and controlled by the super rich. We are in political turmoil. The west is falling into heavy secularism and moral decay. We wage endless wars. We have absolutely no money.

I don’t know I just feel hopeless for our country. One side wants full state control, the other wants full corporate control and the libertarians want anarchy. Non of those to me sound good at all. There is not political system compatible with Catholicism but I can’t go around supporting some catholic monarchy because thats never going to happen.

Sorry for the rant. here is my real question. Is it possible to even vote anymore in good conscious without violating Catholic morals?
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Not only possible, but necessary.

I was a “cradle Democrat”. No ancestor of mine was ever anything but a Democrat. I was a Dem operative and held office in the party. When the party became totally wedded to abortion, I couldn’t stay with it.

I never became a Republican. I most definitely never became a Libertarian or an isolationist, which many Libertarians are. I think this country has a rightful role in the world, and sometimes it requires forceful action. I think perhaps if you really study the “Just War Doctrine” of the Church (not some modern temporizing gloss on it) it won’t be so easy to say, for example, that the Iraq war was “unjust”. I’m not inviting a debate on that, I’m just saying that if one really studies Church teachings about it, what may now seem an obvious conclusion to you might not seem so obvious. As you research it, which I believe you will, remember that the “evil” the war is intended to combat is not limited to “evil done to my country directly”.

But I will also add that, while I truly believe my former party was, decades ago, truly on the side of working people and the poor, it hasn’t been for decades. Neither have the Repubs. Nobody has done anything for the truly poor since the Earned Income Credit, and that was Reagan’s.

So how do I vote? I vote AGAINST those whose tenets most severely violate the five non-negotiables. And that means voting against the party for which i worked for years, almost without exception. And in doing so, I vote for a candidate that has a chance of winning. I do not vote for Mickey Mouse or for myself or for some candidate who will receive 2.3% of the vote. Doing that ensures the victory of the very worst.

So, am I negative in my approach to politics? Yes sir, I am. Doesn’t the Bible say “Put not your trust in kings”? But some things are worse than others.

Good luck in your research. Google “Thomas Aquinas” and “just war” together, and really study it.

Also, I highly recommend the Social Encyclicals. They are very enlightening. Easy to find. Just google “social encyclicals” and they’ll pop right up.
 
I find it strange that we still have the republicans and democrats holding the majority…if you look back thru history, no 2 parties have held on so long, I expected to see another totally new party rise up by now and one of the major 2 to fall away and disappear, we all know history repeats itself, so it should not be too long before we see a new party emerge that will be wildly popular with people.

Regarding capitalism, I have a feeling when Jesus returns, he will put a stop to all this greed and commercialism in our society, I think he will treat the business world like he did with the money changers in the temple.lol
 
Some of the assertions in this article are pure bunk.

While dialogue between Catholics and libertarians should not be ruled out, it can be “difficult,” said Meghan Clark, an assistant professor of theology and religious studies at St. John’s University in New York, “because you don’t share the same vocabulary.”

While libertarians may say they embrace the Catholic principle of subsidiarity, which holds that decisions are best made by the smallest or least centralized competent authority, they are silent on the subject, Cardinal Rodriguez said,** “when it comes to banks and corporations.”**

The bolded is utter bunk. There are a large number of conservative-libertarians who disparage the efforts of large corporations. Not because of the fact that they are successful, but because they tend to use their money to influence government regulators to impose more regulation…which, in turn, creates barriers to entry that discourage new entrants into the market (i.e., small businesses).

I love it (sarcasm) when socialists try to define libertarians.
 
I recently watched this video(below)…a talk by Peter Kreeft: can a Catholic be a liberal. He made some good points. Although I am not hot on republicaan views on gun control and some other issues, the republicans seem like the better candidate right now due since mosr democrats support a lot of the “non negotiatables” It seems like our current administration is a hybrid socialism/ capitalism which is not the best. We will have to pay attention to the candidates and see when it comes time to vote to see who is the best candidate.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=JuQWezGt1JU
 
For the most part I am libritarian in the sense that I don’t want a central bank. It allows to much outside control into our country. I don’t like how corporations can influence govern t. I am more of a supporter for smaller busines. I am a huge pro gun rights activist. It is my hobby and what I love to do. Arguing that we need more control on guns is silly because the problem is society’s moral decay, not guns. I am conservative socially on issues such as gay marraige and abortion, neither of which I support at all. I also see many flaws in capatlism and greed. Consumerism is wreaking us and contrary to popular belief many of my fellow libritarian friends agree. I have a hard time trusting politicians all together because they are all full of c r a p. I also view us as very similar to the Roman Empire. Iv been reading a lot into distributism and I tend to like that economic system. It makes a lot of sense. Honestly my views are all over the spectrum and I tend to try and shape them around my Catholic faith. I can tell from this thread that people hold a multitude of opinions within the catholic faith on politics and what party is best which puts ease toy mind knowing everyone has their opinion and I’m not missing out on some broader Catholic view lol. I guess the best thing to do is pray for guidance and try to live the best and most holy life you can without getting to caught up in the political game.
 
LoganBice said:
For the most part I am libritarian in the sense that I don’t want a central bank. It allows to much outside control into our country. I don’t like how corporations can influence govern t. I am more of a supporter for smaller busines. I am a huge pro gun rights activist. It is my hobby and what I love to do. Arguing that we need more control on guns is silly because the problem is society’s moral decay, not guns. I am conservative socially on issues such as gay marraige and abortion, neither of which I support at all. I also see many flaws in capatlism and greed. Consumerism is wreaking us and contrary to popular belief many of my fellow libritarian friends agree. I have a hard time trusting politicians all together because they are all full of c r a p. I also view us as very similar to the Roman Empire. Iv been reading a lot into distributism and I tend to like that economic system. It makes a lot of sense. Honestly my views are all over the spectrum and I tend to try and shape them around my Catholic faith. I can tell from this thread that people hold a multitude of opinions within the catholic faith on politics and what party is best which puts ease toy mind knowing everyone has their opinion and I’m not missing out on some broader Catholic view lol. I guess the best thing to do is pray for guidance and try to live the best and most holy life you can without getting to caught up in the political game.
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  1. On the subject of homosexual “marriage”? Why should the government be involved in marriage at all? What essential civil issues are covered by marriage that cannot be dealt with as a matter of contracts?
If you haven’t before, I suggest that you read Pope Leo XIII, Arcanum (On Christian Marriage)…
  1. Regarding abortion, an essential element of libertarianism is the respect for the individual’s right to life and to property. Being pro-life is perfectly consistent with libertarianism.
(BTW, I am not a libertarian, but a libertarian leaning conservative)
 
I do not understand how so many people do not grasp that if we do not aggressively vote out pro-abort people, we will NEVER see the end to legal abortions. That alone, the slaughter of millions of innocents, should rise above everything.

*In February 1997, Mother Teresa said, “What is taking place in America,” she said, “is a war against the child. And if we accept that the mother can kill her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another.” *

How can we hope for blessings from God when we never cease killing his precious young?
 
markomalley said:
  1. On the subject of homosexual “marriage”? Why should the government be involved in marriage at all? What essential civil issues are covered by marriage that cannot be dealt with as a matter of contracts?
If you haven’t before, I suggest that you read Pope Leo XIII, Arcanum (On Christian Marriage)…
  1. Regarding abortion, an essential element of libertarianism is the respect for the individual’s right to life and to property. Being pro-life is perfectly consistent with libertarianism.
(BTW, I am not a libertarian, but a libertarian leaning conservative)
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See I agree with that but fellow catholics kept telling me it was wrong and sinful to hold that opinion.
 
irishpatrick said:
I do not understand how so many people do not grasp that if we do not aggressively vote out pro-abort people, we will NEVER see the end to legal abortions. That alone, the slaughter of millions of innocents, should rise above everything.

*In February 1997, Mother Teresa said, “What is taking place in America,” she said, “is a war against the child. And if we accept that the mother can kill her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another.” *

How can we hope for blessings from God when we never cease killing his precious young?
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Who here said that they will vote for pro-life candidates? I would never. That is why I like libritarian leaning candidates like Rand Paul because he is pro life. It’s essentially un-libritarian to support abortion because the basic idea is the government is ment to protect the people and abortion is the opposite of that
 
LittleFlower378 said:
Read section 10 of this link on why libertarian and liberal views of homosexual marriage is wrong.
ewtn.com/library/humanity/homo.htm
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I never said it was right. But neither is a massive amount of other stuff we do. Free will? It’s everyone’s personal choice to choose right or wrong. Arnt we supose to worry about our own salvation over others? In the end I’ll support the side that the church teaches but idk what we should do. Will I support it? No. Will I got out of my way to stop it? Nope.
 
LoganBice said:
See I agree with that but fellow catholics kept telling me it was wrong and sinful to hold that opinion.
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2 Tim 2:15 Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

The mandate is for **you **to do the studying, not for other people to do the studying for you. Therefore, I would suggest taking the time to study the teachings of the Church for yourself rather than letting “fellow catholics” tell you what to believe. I would suggest starting with the teachings of Leo XIII and moving forward.

I am not suggesting that you disregard the Magisterium of your bishop, the Magisterium of the Holy Father, or even the teaching of your pastor. But there are a whole lot of opinions that are just plain “out there” – and a knowledge of what the Popes actually wrote rather than hearing what somebody claims that the Pope wrote is crucial.

As an example, we hear a lot of talk about the horrible “injustice” of “income inequality” – where there are disparities of income. How it is not right for one family to have some sort of prosperity while another does not have the same level of prosperity.

How do advocates for taking tyranical actions to artificially create “equity” react to this statement from Leo XIII:
  1. It must be first of all recognized that the condition of things inherent in human affairs must be borne with, for it is impossible to reduce civil society to one dead level. Socialists may in that intent do their utmost, but all striving against nature is in vain. There naturally exist among mankind manifold differences of the most important kind; people differ in capacity, skill, health, strength; and unequal fortune is a necessary result of unequal condition. Such inequality is far from being disadvantageous either to individuals or to the community. Social and public life can only be maintained by means of various kinds of capacity for business and the playing of many parts; and each man, as a rule, chooses the part which suits his own peculiar domestic condition.
This is not a justification for greed, nor is it a justification for exploitation of others. Each of us is called to practice liberality with that which God has blessed us.

Recall Lazarus and the Rich Man (Luke 16:19-31). This was a call for the rich man to be liberal with his own goods. It was not a call for the government to confiscate his goods.
 
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