World financial system is ‘new idolatry,’ cardinal tells forum

[irishpatrick]

Who here said that they will vote for pro-life candidates? I would never. That is why I like libritarian leaning candidates like Rand Paul because he is pro life. It’s essentially un-libritarian to support abortion because the basic idea is the government is ment to protect the people and abortion is the opposite of that

I apologize–I did not mean to imply anyone said they would vote for a prolife candidate. My overall point is that NOTHING compares to that issue (other than nuclear war), and Catholics, along with Christians of all denoms, should be placing the protection of innocent life above everything else. We must find a find to do that FIRST.

Therefore, political decisions become much easier when we cut through the issues and get to the heart of things…protecting innocent life is the most important issue and rises above everything else. How can we ever hope to be a moral people if we continue to slaughter our unborn? It is time for people to be grownups and end this scourge that is bringing nothing but pain and torment upon the western culture.

IMO (and yes this is just my opinion), I will not vote for anyone who I know is prochoice, not for any office, and it does not matter to me if all candidates are prochoice…I will not give them my vote–I will not allow myself to give them carte blache to continue in their support of the slaughter of innocents. It has to end and it will never end until we take a real stand against it.

I believe, and trust completely, that if we do the right thing in the big things (like abortion), God will guide us in all the other issues too.

 

[abucs]

Hello Logan,

my personal opinion is that Capitalism has lifted billions of people out of poverty. Unregulated capitalism can be a huge problem though and can lead to servitude. I think though that democracy is a great ‘regulator’ of unchecked capitalism.

As far as voting goes my whole family have moved from left to right. For some of us it has happened via voting for independents or not voting at all.

My family like yourself have left the ‘Left’ due to its move away from Christianity and towards secular socialism. Some are voting against the left in the hope that a decline in the vote will force a reversal of the current trends and a renewal of the party’s direction and values. Some still see themselves as on the left and are just ‘lending’ their votes to the right (who they don’t identify with) until that renewal happens.

I also don’t like war, especially when it is done without transparently just reasons. I am very much against sending troops to the middle east.

You also have to consider the fact that many Catholics changing to the right side of politics will have an impact on what the right stands for. Ideally it is a two way relationship between supporters and political parties.

Unfortunately for our family the failure of this 2 way relationship on the Left has been the reason why we have flipped our votes,

 

[Ridgerunner]

Who here said that they will vote for pro-life candidates? I would never. That is why I like libritarian leaning candidates like Rand Paul because he is pro life. It’s essentially un-libritarian to support abortion because the basic idea is the government is ment to protect the people and abortion is the opposite of that

Being “libertarian” politically is a bit like being “protestant” in the religious sphere. You know the person is against the “establishment” and in favor of personal freedom, but that’s about all you know.

 

[CrossofChrist]

Some of the assertions in this article are pure bunk.

While dialogue between Catholics and libertarians should not be ruled out, it can be “difficult,” said Meghan Clark, an assistant professor of theology and religious studies at St. John’s University in New York, “because you don’t share the same vocabulary.”

While libertarians may say they embrace the Catholic principle of subsidiarity, which holds that decisions are best made by the smallest or least centralized competent authority, they are silent on the subject, Cardinal Rodriguez said,** “when it comes to banks and corporations.”**

The bolded is utter bunk. There are a large number of conservative-libertarians who disparage the efforts of large corporations. Not because of the fact that they are successful, but because they tend to use their money to influence government regulators to impose more regulation…which, in turn, creates barriers to entry that discourage new entrants into the market (i.e., small businesses).

I love it (sarcasm) when socialists try to define libertarians.

There are also many who are silent about them though. At least if you take a broader definition of “libertarian”.

 

[LoganBice]

Being “libertarian” politically is a bit like being “protestant” in the religious sphere. You know the person is against the “establishment” and in favor of personal freedom, but that’s about all you know.

Yes but I’m not against order, government or establishment. I like how the church is set up. I just don’t like our American system because it is completely rampant with seculism and new age occultism. The west is headed down a dark path

 

[LoganBice]

And once again I will repeat myself since people here seem to be misunderstanding my view. I am libritarian ONLY in a certain light. Anything against catholic teaching or Christian principles I do not support and I am not a hard core libritarian. I am NOT an anarchist. I guess you wouldn’t even all me a libritarian I just have similar views with some. By that I mean I share the same distrust and resentment for our “system” at the moment in time but for different reasons. Many libertarians just want to be “left alone” so they can do whatever they please. I see it from a view that Christianity and it’s principles are failing in the west and I don’t like the new age stuff coming into play. With that being said I know many libritarian a who are into that new age stuff and what they don’t realize is the very “system” they are opposed is what is pushing that stuff. Honestly in a perfect world I would be all for catholic monarchy. I hope this makes more sense. I have very mixed political views that can’t be lumped into a party

 

[DAML72]

I was also a poli-sci major. I am also an attorney, so I am bound, to some degree, to politics as it relates to lawmaking.

The church directs us to be responsible voters but, honestly, I’m where you are. The whole system is corrupt. I don’t think that we, as individual voters, really have any say left. A false dichotomy has been constructed in which we are tricked into thinking that we have a voice, but the government is primarily ruled and directed by monied interests - and I think that the Church makes a mistake if and when it becomes involved in supporting a particular political party or movement.

I haven’t voted since the 2012 Presidential election. If I vote in the future, it will probably be for a 3rd party candidate.

Wish I knew what to tell you. Your command is to follow your well-formed conscience. Follow your conscience.

 

[LoganBice]

I was also a poli-sci major. I am also an attorney, so I am bound, to some degree, to politics as it relates to lawmaking.

The church directs us to be responsible voters but, honestly, I’m where you are. The whole system is corrupt. I don’t think that we, as individual voters, really have any say left. A false dichotomy has been constructed in which we are tricked into thinking that we have a voice, but the government is primarily ruled and directed by monied interests - and I think that the Church makes a mistake if and when it becomes involved in supporting a particular political party or movement.

I haven’t voted since the 2012 Presidential election. If I vote in the future, it will probably be for a 3rd party candidate.

Wish I knew what to tell you. Your command is to follow your well-formed conscience. Follow your conscience.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. It’s nice to know someone else has the same delimma as me.
And thank you to everyone else’s (name removed by moderator)ut. God bless

 

[Ridgerunner]

I was also a poli-sci major. I am also an attorney, so I am bound, to some degree, to politics as it relates to lawmaking.

The church directs us to be responsible voters but, honestly, I’m where you are. The whole system is corrupt. I don’t think that we, as individual voters, really have any say left. A false dichotomy has been constructed in which we are tricked into thinking that we have a voice, but the government is primarily ruled and directed by monied interests - and I think that the Church makes a mistake if and when it becomes involved in supporting a particular political party or movement.

I haven’t voted since the 2012 Presidential election. If I vote in the future, it will probably be for a 3rd party candidate.

Wish I knew what to tell you. Your command is to follow your well-formed conscience. Follow your conscience.

Ah, I think we can all condemn our politicians, just as they could in 1812, 1860, 1880, 1912, 1932, 1958, and so on. Lots of vanity, corruption, and worse. Like moths to a flame, they get singed, it seems, when they get too close to vast sums of money and power.

But are we therefore excused from opposing evil? I don’t think we are. Would we be justified, even mandated, to support a Romney (not my first choice or my second) as opposed to an Obama? Say what one will about the flaws of the former, but when considering what one would have been opposing in voting for him, one is, in my opinion, justified. Does one get into the fight, however imperfectly, or just let evil have its way? I say we do the former. Better to throw a rock into the melee, however little it might do, than to hide behind one.

“Follow your conscience” is good advice as a general principle. But if doing so in the face of perceived imperfections in the opponents of the worst leads to inaction, then I say one should turn one’s attention to conscience formation.

 

[LoganBice]

Ah, I think we can all condemn our politicians, just as they could in 1812, 1860, 1880, 1912, 1932, 1958, and so on. Lots of vanity, corruption, and worse. Like moths to a flame, they get singed, it seems, when they get too close to vast sums of money and power.

But are we therefore excused from opposing evil? I don’t think we are. Would we be justified, even mandated, to support a Romney (not my first choice or my second) as opposed to an Obama? Say what one will about the flaws of the former, but when considering what one would have been opposing in voting for him, one is, in my opinion, justified. Does one get into the fight, however imperfectly, or just let evil have its way? I say we do the former. Better to throw a rock into the melee, however little it might do, than to hide behind one.

“Follow your conscience” is good advice as a general principle. But if doing so in the face of perceived imperfections in the opponents of the worst leads to inaction, then I say one should turn one’s attention to conscience formation.

I understand that and I voted for Romney but I have a feeling it wouldn’t be much different if he was in office. It’s one of those things where I vote for the lesser evil but don’t expect any change.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I understand that and I voted for Romney but I have a feeling it wouldn’t be much different if he was in office. It’s one of those things where I vote for the lesser evil but don’t expect any change.

Maybe not much different. But if Romney had any expectation or re-election, he would not have fostered homosexual marriage or appointed the sorts of judges Obama has appointed, or found ways to oppress religious liberty, because his core constituents would not have put up with it. And one certainly could have expected him to immediately approve the Keystone Pipeline, rein in the EPA and do a number of things of that nature, again, because he could not have survived politically had he failed to do so.

Sometimes smallish improvements are better than major worsenings, and worthy of pursuit. You’re a lawyer. I know a lawyer who tells every client something like “I can’t promise you a particular result, but I can promise you that I’ll improve your outcome from where it’s headed now.”

Sometimes that’s all we can do, or ought to expect to do.

 

[LoganBice]

Maybe not much different. But if Romney had any expectation or re-election, he would not have fostered homosexual marriage or appointed the sorts of judges Obama has appointed, or found ways to oppress religious liberty, because his core constituents would not have put up with it. And one certainly could have expected him to immediately approve the Keystone Pipeline, rein in the EPA and do a number of things of that nature, again, because he could not have survived politically had he failed to do so.

Sometimes smallish improvements are better than major worsenings, and worthy of pursuit. You’re a lawyer. I know a lawyer who tells every client something like “I can’t promise you a particular result, but I can promise you that I’ll improve your outcome from where it’s headed now.”

Sometimes that’s all we can do, or ought to expect to do.

This is true. We can only speculate though unfortunately. We would have had a Catholic as our vice which would have nice

 

[FollowChrist34]

catholicphilly.com/2014/06/news/national-news/world-financial-system-is-new-idolatry-cardinal-tells-forum/

So if y’all have seen this yet Capitalism has been condemned as unjust to the poor and become the new form of Idolatry. Honestly this is not news to me at all but Im having some issues and Im at a cross roads in my life.

First off I am extremely politically active. I am a PoliSci major so its just part of my day to day. My problem is that I have no idea who to vote for anymore. I grew up typical conservative and in college shifted much more libertarian. Please know though that I am only libertarian to the extent that my faith lets me be. I do not support gay marriage, abortion or anything that violates social teaching but I am in favor of smaller government intervention in many aspects of peoples lives. My problem is that there is absolutely no party or potential candidate that I could possible vote for in good conscious. The left wing is completely morally gone, the right wing likes to parade around thinking they are christian while they neglect the poor and start illegal wars where hundreds of thousands are killed. Im having trouble knowing what to do. I do like Rand and Ron Paul because they seem to be good men and actually want to return back to our foundlings principles but I get backlash from other catholics saying they are too libertarian. Tell me then who is a better option? Are whole political system is rigged, corrupted and controlled by the super rich. We are in political turmoil. The west is falling into heavy secularism and moral decay. We wage endless wars. We have absolutely no money.

I don’t know I just feel hopeless for our country. One side wants full state control, the other wants full corporate control and the libertarians want anarchy. Non of those to me sound good at all. There is not political system compatible with Catholicism but I can’t go around supporting some catholic monarchy because thats never going to happen.

Sorry for the rant. here is my real question. Is it possible to even vote anymore in good conscious without violating Catholic morals?

Yes, I am also right where you are.

My dad was extremely left wing; his dad was a fire-breathing right wing Goldwater supporter. The Christmas-time family political battles in my house were long, loud and intense, fed by a constant stream of martinis.

I started out voting liberal like it was a religion. But I realized I had more sympathy with conservatives when I was in graduate school. In practice today, I vote Democrat or Republican, depending on a number of factors. I don’t worry about inconsistency. I worry about getting the best candidate (or should I say least worse) into the position. And I do always, always vote, no matter how much I dislike both candidates. I think it’s kind of a sin not to vote.

I agree with you - the Republicans do by and large throw the poor overboard and rely excessively on the free market system. The Democrats do push for more progressive tax rates, defend social programs, defend the environment, defend killing babies and gay marriage. Right now, due to excesses of the left (social issues / economic issues / foreign policy), I am on the right and I will vote for the Republican candidate in the next election. And I also like Rand Paul (or even more so Marco Rubio) – I think they may have a shot at winning. I want to pull the country back to the center and I feel that is my moral and Catholic responsibility. After we’ve been on the right for 8 years or so I will probably go back to the left and try to pull it back to the center again. That’s generally what I do. And I haven’t been happy with a President I don’t think in my lifetime, so I don’t have high hopes in that regard. I just want to reign things in. My main concern right now is getting constitutional Supreme Court justices. We can’t have any more liberal appointments. I would love to see the right step it up on the environment and progressive tax rates, etc., but it won’t happen. I just brace for the worse and vote! Sorry, I can’t be more positive.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, I am also right where you are.

My dad was extremely left wing; his dad was a fire-breathing right wing Goldwater supporter. The Christmas-time family political battles in my house were long, loud and intense, fed by a constant stream of martinis.

I started out voting liberal like it was a religion. But I realized I had more sympathy with conservatives when I was in graduate school. In practice today, I vote Democrat or Republican, depending on a number of factors. I don’t worry about inconsistency. I worry about getting the best candidate (or should I say least worse) into the position. And I do always, always vote, no matter how much I dislike both candidates. I think it’s kind of a sin not to vote.

I agree with you - the Republicans do by and large throw the poor overboard and rely excessively on the free market system. The Democrats do push for more progressive tax rates, defend social programs, defend the environment, defend killing babies and gay marriage. Right now, due to excesses of the left (social issues / economic issues / foreign policy), I am on the right and I will vote for the Republican candidate in the next election. And I also like Rand Paul (or even more so Marco Rubio) – I think they may have a shot at winning. I want to pull the country back to the center and I feel that is my moral and Catholic responsibility. After we’ve been on the right for 8 years or so I will probably go back to the left and try to pull it back to the center again. That’s generally what I do. And I haven’t been happy with a President I don’t think in my lifetime, so I don’t have high hopes in that regard. I just want to reign things in. My main concern right now is getting constitutional Supreme Court justices. We can’t have any more liberal appointments. I would love to see the right step it up on the environment and progressive tax rates, etc., but it won’t happen. I just brace for the worse and vote! Sorry, I can’t be more positive.

One of the biggest lies perpetrated by the Dem party is that it helps the poor and working people. It has done neither for decades; quite the contrary. But it and the media repeat the myth and people believe it. It is something people need to purge from their subconscious minds.

Which is not to say the Repub party does either. It hasn’t since Reagan’s Earned Income Credit. That’s the last thing either party did. But when it comes to the poor and working people, one has to at least give the Repubs some credit in that, by and large, they do not favor job-killing and economy-stifling measures. Not that they’re incapable of it, but basically they don’t.

 

[LoganBice]

One of the biggest lies perpetrated by the Dem party is that it helps the poor and working people. It has done neither for decades; quite the contrary. But it and the media repeat the myth and people believe it. It is something people need to purge from their subconscious minds.

Which is not to say the Repub party does either. It hasn’t since Reagan’s Earned Income Credit. That’s the last thing either party did. But when it comes to the poor and working people, one has to at least give the Repubs some credit in that, by and large, they do not favor job-killing and economy-stifling measures. Not that they’re incapable of it, but basically they don’t.

Oh I defiantly agree the dem party dosnt help the poor but neither does the rep. Dems just make them dependent on the system and reps just say “find a job” thinking that the playing field is equal when it’s not. That’s pretty much my delimma I’m a conservative at heart but the GOP isn’t true conservstives anymore it’s neo-conservatives

 

[LoganBice]

I think when people ask me my political view I’ll just tell them I’m catholic