World War III is Prophesized

[puzzleannie]

Father Gruner of the “Fatima Crusade” claims that Russia was not properly consecrated. He is not alone in this. This is a common assertion by many “ultra-traditionalists” as well as others who seem to have limited trust in the Holy See.

he and others that make this proclamation are formal heretics. good for OP in putting this discussion on the proper forum, since none of previous discussion relates to Catholic teaching

 

[LilyM]

Ms. Lily, as a Catholic, you don’t believe in anything do you…

Of course I believe. That’s why I’d put my money on the past and present Vicars of Christ on Earth telling the truth, rather than believe a renegade priest of dubious standing, yes.

 

[CathFaith1]

it is what Sister Lucy said it was

Sr Lucia was vocal about what she did and did not say.

She answers those who have voiced a doubt that some part of the ‘third secret’ might not have been revealed: “Everything has been published, there are no more secrets.” To those who are talking and writing about new revelations, she says: "There is not a grain of truth in them. If I had had new revelations, I would not have spoken of them to anyone, but would have told them directly to the Holy Father

In the Convent of Coimbra, Portugal
17 November 2001

Sr Lucia wasn’t bashful noting when there was a problem.

On Oct. 31, 1942, His Holiness Pius XII made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made as Our Lady requested. I answered “NO,” because it was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.

Later, on May 13, 1967, His Holiness Paul VI made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made as Our Lady requested. I responded “NO,” for the same reason, it was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.

On May 13, 1982, His Holiness John Paul II made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made. I responded “NO.” It was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.

on March 25, 1984 - publicly - with the bishops who wanted to unite with His Holiness, made the Consecration as Our Lady requested. They then asked me if it was made as Our Lady requested, and I said, “YES.” Now it was made.

Letters of Sr. Lucia Santos
Coimbra, August 29,1989

 

[East_and_West]

I miss the Crusades. :knight2:

 

[fatima1917]

I seem to remember the prohecy that if the consecration of Russia was properly done there would be a certain era of peace. And Sister Lucia before her death confirmed that it was carried out in accordance with Our Lady’s wishes. So WHAT is everyone worried about?

If this is the era of peace I would hate to live in an era of war.

I am certain that the 3000 people that died on 9/11 were so happy that they died in the era of peace.

 

[MHalsey]

Ms. Lily, as a Catholic, you don’t believe in anything do you…

That was very uncharitable. We as Catholics are not required to believe in private revelation. And although the Church has affirmed Fatima, it still falls under the umbrella of private revelation.

Just because a person disagrees with you on this subject is no excuse to insult that person’s faith.

 

[Righteousone]

That was very uncharitable. We as Catholics are not required to believe in private revelation. And although the Church has affirmed Fatima, it still falls under the umbrella of private revelation.

Just because a person disagrees with you on this subject is no excuse to insult that person’s faith.

I am not insulting anyone Halsey. I don’t care what Fatima falls under. It happened, it is true, it was witnessed, it is for the whole world and if you don’t believe it, then you don’t believe the Blessed Mother’s apparitions. We as Catholcs must believe b/c each and every Catholic is obliged to do and believe certain things, in order to remain in union with Jesus christ and the church and the state of Grace.
Every Catholic must first of all accept all that is contained in the Deposit of Faith, for as the Catholic profession of faith known as the creed of St. Anthanasius said.
There are two theological positions which maintain that we are required to believe in the Message Our Lady gave at Fatima.
First position argues that Fatima is contained in Sacred Scripture by way of prophecy; thus it would follow that it is part of the Deposit of Faith and we are bound to believe it.
This position in today’s climate of skepticism and unbelief may seem to some to be extreme, but consider for a moment the possibility:
In Apocolypse Chapter 12, we read the prophecy of the “woman clothed with the sun”, who is engaged in battle with the dragon.
This “woman” is clearly the Blessed Virgin, and could very well be Our Lady of Fatima. No one can say for certain that it isn’t her.
The message states that the consequences of ignoring Our Lady’s requests at Fatima are disastrous for all.
St. Paul states “Do not extinguish the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. But test all things and hold fast to that which is good”.
The church has tested it and found it to be good, and we are therefore bound to hold fast to it.
Sister Lucy explained that TO REFUSE THE KNOWN TRUTH IS A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

And I am insulted that you feel this way as a Catholic toward Fatima.

 

[MHalsey]

I am not insulting anyone Halsey. I don’t care what Fatima falls under. It happened, it is true, it was witnessed, it is for the whole world and if you don’t believe it, then you don’t believe the Blessed Mother’s apparitions. We as Catholcs must believe b/c each and every Catholic is obliged to do and believe certain things, in order to remain in union with Jesus christ and the church and the state of Grace.
Every Catholic must first of all accept all that is contained in the Deposit of Faith, for as the Catholic profession of faith known as the creed of St. Anthanasius said.
There are two theological positions which maintain that we are required to believe in the Message Our Lady gave at Fatima.
First position argues that Fatima is contained in Sacred Scripture by way of prophecy; thus it would follow that it is part of the Deposit of Faith and we are bound to believe it.
This position in today’s climate of skepticism and unbelief may seem to some to be extreme, but consider for a moment the possibility:
In Apocolypse Chapter 12, we read the prophecy of the “woman clothed with the sun”, who is engaged in battle with the dragon.
This “woman” is clearly the Blessed Virgin, and could very well be Our Lady of Fatima. No one can say for certain that it isn’t her.
The message states that the consequences of ignoring Our Lady’s requests at Fatima are disastrous for all.
St. Paul states “Do not extinguish the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. But test all things and hold fast to that which is good”.
The church has tested it and found it to be good, and we are therefore bound to hold fast to it.
Sister Lucy explained that TO REFUSE THE KNOWN TRUTH IS A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

And I am insulted that you feel this way as a Catholic toward Fatima.

We’ve been over this before, and I won’t be drawn into it again.

Ms. Lily, as a Catholic, you don’t believe in anything do you…

Any way you slice it, this is an insult and uncharitable.

 

[rpp]

Sorry. I assumed that is what you were insinuating. Oh BTW, you did lie about my statements in the obesity thread.

Obviously you are mistaken. You are being quite rude and you yourself are knowingly making a false statement. To bring in something that happened on another thread is way out of place.

I have no idea why you choose to attack me. There was no basis nor provocation.

I will not return insult with insult. I will add, however, that you are way out of line. If you are unable to cease making slanderous statements, you should cease posting.

 

[rpp]

Ms. Lily, as a Catholic, you don’t believe in anything do you…

This is a very serious insult. Far beyond being uncharitable.

That was very uncharitable. We as Catholics are not required to believe in private revelation. And although the Church has affirmed Fatima, it still falls under the umbrella of private revelation.

Just because a person disagrees with you on this subject is no excuse to insult that person’s faith.

See, MHalsey is not the only who found your remark to Lily uncharitable.

I am not insulting anyone Halsey.

Despite your attempt to claim otherwise, I believe you owe Lily an apology.

I don’t care what Fatima falls under. It happened, it is true, it was witnessed, it is for the whole world and if you don’t believe it, then you don’t believe the Blessed Mother’s apparitions. We as Catholcs must believe b/c each and every Catholic is obliged to do and believe certain things, in order to remain in union with Jesus christ and the church and the state of Grace.
Every Catholic must first of all accept all that is contained in the Deposit of Faith, for as the Catholic profession of faith known as the creed of St. Anthanasius said.
There are two theological positions which maintain that we are required to believe in the Message Our Lady gave at Fatima.
First position argues that Fatima is contained in Sacred Scripture by way of prophecy; thus it would follow that it is part of the Deposit of Faith and we are bound to believe it.
This position in today’s climate of skepticism and unbelief may seem to some to be extreme, but consider for a moment the possibility:
In Apocolypse Chapter 12, we read the prophecy of the “woman clothed with the sun”, who is engaged in battle with the dragon.
This “woman” is clearly the Blessed Virgin, and could very well be Our Lady of Fatima. No one can say for certain that it isn’t her.
The message states that the consequences of ignoring Our Lady’s requests at Fatima are disastrous for all.
St. Paul states “Do not extinguish the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. But test all things and hold fast to that which is good”.
The church has tested it and found it to be good, and we are therefore bound to hold fast to it.
Sister Lucy explained that TO REFUSE THE KNOWN TRUTH IS A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Catholics are not obliged to believe in Fatima or any other vision. (Do not presume that by saying this that I do not believe that the Fatima events did not happen.)

You have provided no citations to magisterial documents that state we are to accept approved visions in general or Fatima in particular. Instead, you refer to the dubious ramblings of a suspended priest. A priest who was suspended for just these kinds of ramblings.

Rather than push this, I suggest you do something that Father Groner appears unwilling to do, humbly submit yourself to the authority of the Church that Jesus Christ establish and preserves to this day.

And I am insulted that you feel this way as a Catholic toward Fatima.

Get over it. To be insulted because someone disagrees with you is, well, neither healthy nor productive.

 

[Booklover]

No offence, but there are plenty of historical precedents of very small and weak forces defeating larger ones.

In the ancient world there were the Greeks who fought the Persians and won, and Julius Caesar defeated a Gaulish force A QUARTER OF A MILLION strong in total.

In the Middle ages there was the Battle of Agincourt where the English defeated a much larger and more heavily armed French force. A generation later the now larger and better-equipped English forces were driven out of France by (among others) St Joan of Arc.

There’s no such thing as a ‘humanly impossible’ victory in battle - if the conditions are right any army can beat any other.

The Siege of Malta was another, where the hospitaller knights kept a larger force of Muslims from invading Europe.

Vickie

 

[Righteousone]

This is a very serious insult. Far beyond being uncharitable.

See, MHalsey is not the only who found your remark to Lily uncharitable.

Despite your attempt to claim otherwise, I believe you owe Lily an apology.

Catholics are no obliged to believe in Fatima or any other vision. (Do not presume that by saying this that I do not believe that the Fatima events did not happen.)

You have provided no citations to magisterial documents that state we are to accept approved visions in general or Fatima in particular. Instead, you refer to the dubious ramblings of a suspended priest. A priest who was suspended for just these kinds of ramblings.

Rather than push this, I suggest you do something that Father Groner appears unwilling to do, humbly submit yourself to the authority of the Church that Jesus Christ establish and preserves to this day.

You have quite a nerve to judge me rpp, and quite a nerve to tell me I owe someone an apology when I’ve done nothing wrong. Your insulting my intelligence is really ticking me off…stick to the topic here or don’t post. Where is your charity here???

 

[rpp]

You have quite a nerve to judge me rpp, and quite a nerve to tell me I owe someone an apology when I’ve done nothing wrong. Your insulting my intelligence is really ticking me off…stick to the topic here or don’t post. Where is your charity here???

I am not judging you. Accusing others of “judging” sounds cool, but it is really an abdication of responsibility. I am making an observation about a specific thing you did, I am not making a determination about your soul. That you appear unable to see what everyone else sees about your behavior is very telling.

I am am sticking to the topic. As for insulting your intelligence, I am not doing that either. On that account, you are indicting yourself.

It is very easy to cast accusations about. It is much more difficult to listen and humbly ask yourself, “Why are so many people saying this?”

 

[MHalsey]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia

Private Revelations

There are two kinds of revelations: (1) universal revelations, which are contained in the Bible or in the depositum of Apostolic tradition transmitted by the Church. These ended with the preaching of the Apostles and must be believed by all; (2) particular or private revelations which are constantly occurring among Christians (see CONTEMPLATION). When the Church approves private revelations, she declares only that there is nothing in them contrary faith or good morals, and that they may be read without danger or even with profit; no obligation is thereby imposed on the faithful to believe them. Speaking of such revelations as (e.g.) those of St. Hildegard (approved in part by Eugenius III), St. Bridget (by Boniface IX), and St. Catherine of Siena (by Gregory XI) Benedict XIV says: “It is not obligatory nor even possible to give them the assent of Catholic faith, but only of human faith, in conformity with the dictates of prudence, which presents them to us as probable and worthy of pius belief)” (De canon., III, liii, xxii, II).

This thread is a classic example of why I believe the Church does not require us to believe in private revelation. The reason being it can cause division among us. Arguing about whether or not the third secret prophecies WW 3 does nothing to increase our faith.

 

[Righteousone]

I am not judging you. Accusing others of “judging” sounds cool, but it is really an abdication of responsibility. I am making an observation about a specific thing you did, I am not making a determination about your soul. That you appear unable to see what everyone else sees about your behavior is very telling.

I am am sticking to the topic. As for insulting your intelligence, I am not doing that either. On that account, you are indicting yourself.

It is very easy to cast accusations about. It is much more difficult to listen and humbly ask yourself, “Why are so many people saying this?”

There are a couple of people here that do not agree with me. We all have our opinions and our knowledge as to what we know. I stand steadfast in what I say, maybe I am sometimes over the top but I am a defender of the faith and will continue to do so.
Some Protestants do not like what Catholics have to say and that I am suppose to sugar coat things is not me. I am not a phony, I just simply tell it like it is. The things I say I get from credible resources, and because someone doesn’t agree, doesn’t make me back down. Some people here need to do research because they do not know about certain things. I mean no disrespect to people on this forum, but I cannot say that I will be charitable toward Muslim when they are in a fight to the death with the Catholic faith.

 

[Righteousone]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia

This thread is a classic example of why I believe the Church does not require us to believe in private revelation. The reason being it can cause division among us. Arguing about whether or not the third secret prophecies WW 3 does nothing to increase our faith.

Maybe it isn’t required, but if the church accepts it as being good, maybe one should think about it…makes sense to me. Whatever the church says and does, so do I.

 

[goofyjim]

I am not insulting anyone Halsey. I don’t care what Fatima falls under. It happened, it is true, it was witnessed, it is for the whole world and if you don’t believe it, then you don’t believe the Blessed Mother’s apparitions. We as Catholcs must believe b/c each and every Catholic is obliged to do and believe certain things, in order to remain in union with Jesus christ and the church and the state of Grace.
Every Catholic must first of all accept all that is contained in the Deposit of Faith, for as the Catholic profession of faith known as the creed of St. Anthanasius said.
There are two theological positions which maintain that we are required to believe in the Message Our Lady gave at Fatima.
First position argues that Fatima is contained in Sacred Scripture by way of prophecy; thus it would follow that it is part of the Deposit of Faith and we are bound to believe it.
This position in today’s climate of skepticism and unbelief may seem to some to be extreme, but consider for a moment the possibility:
In Apocolypse Chapter 12, we read the prophecy of the “woman clothed with the sun”, who is engaged in battle with the dragon.
This “woman” is clearly the Blessed Virgin, and could very well be Our Lady of Fatima. No one can say for certain that it isn’t her.
The message states that the consequences of ignoring Our Lady’s requests at Fatima are disastrous for all.
St. Paul states “Do not extinguish the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. But test all things and hold fast to that which is good”.
The church has tested it and found it to be good, and we are therefore bound to hold fast to it.
Sister Lucy explained that TO REFUSE THE KNOWN TRUTH IS A SIN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

And I am insulted that you feel this way as a Catholic toward Fatima.

I have the utmost respect for Fatima but no private revelation falls under the deposit of faith, even approved ones.

 

[CathFaith1]

Maybe it isn’t required, but if the church accepts it as being good, maybe one should think about it…makes sense to me. Whatever the church says and does, so do I.

Most seem to agree Fatima was ‘good’ and worthy of thought. And as popes, cardinals and some bishops have agreed Fatima was and remains a source of inspiration.

One last thought, Our Lady may have shared that whatever just yet grave punishment was looming over the world - God allowed her to inteceed to lessen the severity - though like a good parent gave their children a stern warning and still something to really remember.

…we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand

Let us now examine more closely the single images. The angel with the flaming sword on the left of the Mother of God recalls similar images in the Book of Revelation. This represents the threat of judgement which looms over the world. Today the prospect that the world might be reduced to ashes by a sea of fire no longer seems pure fantasy: man himself, with his inventions, has forged the flaming sword. The vision then shows the power which stands opposed to the force of destruction—the splendour of the Mother of God and, stemming from this in a certain way, the summons to penance. In this way, the importance of human freedom is underlined: the future is not in fact unchangeably set, and the image which the children saw is in no way a film preview of a future in which nothing can be changed. Indeed, the whole point of the vision is to bring freedom onto the scene and to steer freedom in a positive direction. The purpose of the vision is not to show a film of an irrevocably fixed future. Its meaning is exactly the opposite: it is meant to mobilize the forces of change in the right direction.

Commentary by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

I wonder, has the average Catholic heeded? If not, we may be in for a shock.

 

[Eschato]

Where did you hear it? Who did you hear it from? What evidence is there that both of them agreed that the third secret hadn’t been fulfilled?

More importantly, why would JP2 even bother mentioning his shooting in relation to the third secret if the third secret really related to something else entirely? Isn’t that more-than-kinda lying? Why not just keep silent if the Third Secret hadn’t been fulfilled?

Whoa!

Slow down… I don’t know where I heard it, it was about two years ago when I was converting. I wasn’t making any claims on this, I was just saying what I heard. I did go back and read the Third mystery and Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter about it. In the mystery, there is more than one gunman, and the Pope dies. He is fired upon with many bullets and arrows. Many other Bishops, priests, and laypeople are also killed in the mystery. Though I don’t deny what happened to JPII has relation to the third mystery, I can’t, from a bare reading of the text, affirm that it came to a close. For one, if JPII died as described in the mystery, he wouldn’t merely be a “blessed” right now, would he?

In Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter, he says that he agrees with Cardinal Sodano that the events of the third secret now appear to be a part of the past, and I agree too. I just don’t understand how nobody died. He talks a lot of the blood of the martyrs but there wasn’t one martyr at the event in '81. There was blood, but no martyr. I don’t know that the martyrs mentioned in the mystery aren’t worldwide because I know that people are martyred for their faith everyday, but I do find it interesting that a prophesied event full of martyrs would commence without death.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

 

[Righteousone]

I have the utmost respect for Fatima but no private revelation falls under the deposit of faith, even approved ones.

“WHOEVER WISHES TO BE SAVED, MUST ABOVE ALL KEEP THE CATHOLIC FAITH; FOR UNLESS A PERSON KEEPS THIS FAITH WHOLE AND INVIOLATE, HE WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT PERISH IN ETERNITY”---------Creed by St. Athanasius

St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that the faith is all that God has revealed; that is everything God has revealed in both Sacred Scripture and Catholic Tradition. That is the Catholic faith, and to be saved we are bound to believe it.