Worried about Lifeteen coming to our Parish

[stringbeanduck]

I consider myself a traditional Catholic. Granted I don’t go to a TLM all 7 days of the week, but I fully believe that Mass should be very reverent and try my best to stay active in learning about the faith. Unfortunately our Parish youth are trying to put in a Life teen Mass. I am very against this as our Masses already have drums, guitar, tambourines, and some modern upbeat songs ect… I feel very alone on this issue as I am the only one out of the youth who opposes having one. Everybody thinks Mass should be more fun, and more like a worship service. As one of the youth leaders at the church I do carry some respect and it will come time to where I need to speak up about, most likely at one of our meetings. I need some help, whether it be by links or advice why we should have a Life teen mass in our church. Also I will be speaking to our Priest about this as well.

 

[tiggeriffic]

I guess I would ask are you more concerned about LifeTeen at your parish or the LifeTeen mass? I have issues with both - but want to address your immediate concern/question.

I would turn to “Renewing the Vision” which is the document from the USCCB on Youth Ministry. It clearly states that youth should be incorporated into all aspects of parish life and this includes liturgy. To completely seperate youth and have their “own mass” is a total opposite.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I guess I would ask are you more concerned about LifeTeen at your parish or the LifeTeen mass? I have issues with both - but want to address your immediate concern/question.

I would turn to “Renewing the Vision” which is the document from the USCCB on Youth Ministry. It clearly states that youth should be incorporated into all aspects of parish life and this includes liturgy. To completely seperate youth and have their “own mass” is a total opposite.

Personally I’m not really opposed to the program, more so the Mass. I don’t mind that we have programs to help bring youth in the faith, but definitely believe that the Mass shouldn’t altered for the teens. I doubt that they would start up the program without the Mass though. Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll look into it.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Where on earth do they get the idea that Mass is supposed to be “fun”?

And what on earth do they mean by “like a worship service?”

The Celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is the most important service of worship this side of Heaven.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Where on earth do they get the idea that Mass is supposed to be “fun”?

And what on earth do they mean by “like a worship service?”

The Celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is the most important service of worship this side of Heaven.

They(youth a my church) think Mass should be more attention grabbing which means having all modern(up beat) worship music, encouraged clapping even during communion, only modern instruments(no organ), only hugs during the “peace be with you”, more hand holding. This is what you have in Lifeteen Mass.

 

[grobyak]

I was a LifeTeen CORE member a few years back. I had mixed feelings about it then, and continue to have them now. On one hand, it’s great to see teens on fire for the Lord. Yes, there were those apathetic teens who would rather set things on fire than be on fire, but many kids really seemed to develop a knowledge of and love for the Lord. On the other hand, I didn’t really like the praise-and-worship, evangelical style of the Mass. I love modern Christian music and Christian rock (Red is the BOMB!), but not at Mass. It made me wonder how much of this “fire” was true relationship with Christ or was just emotionalism. There really seemed to be an emphasis on having a charismatic experience versus true faith. Not that some kids didn’t get it - some did and vocations have been spawned by this program (or should I better say by the Holy Spirit through LifeTeen).

I really enjoyed the XLT services (a praise and worship style meeting during the week in which there was music, a talk, and Adoration). Again, I was concerned about a level of “demand” that was placed on the charismatic experience, and some kids (and adult leaders) were very unhappy if they didn’t have one.

I guess it’s a multi-pronged monster. I remember where I was in my faith life as a teen, and it was nowhere near what some of these kids have. In my teens, I was Catholic because my mom was, plain and simple. I didn’t personally encounter Christ until my early thirties. I want them to know Him much sooner than I did, and I see Life Teen as ONE avenue. At the same time, I want them to understand that JESUS is the reason for Mass, not them. There is no higher form of worship than the Mass, and it’s not about the music or the little jigs or being “slain in the Spirit.” It’s about Jesus! I think LifeTeen can be done in such a way that really emphasizes this without taking away from its evangelical mission.

Have you considered a Dead Theologians Society? Our parish is considering one because our priest does not like LifeTeen (“Mass is too irreverent” to quote him directly).

Good luck.

 

[bpbasilphx]

They(youth a my church) think Mass should be more attention grabbing which means having all modern(up beat) worship music, encouraged clapping even during communion, only modern instruments(no organ), only hugs during the “peace be with you”, more hand holding. This is what you have in Lifeteen Mass.

Since guitars and other plucked strings are MUCH more ancient than organs, I don’t know what they mean by “modern instruments”.

Actually, in the EF, the Pax was exchanged by a ritualized embrace. Ancient writers refer to an actual kiss at that point. Nothing especially modern about hugging at this point.

Sounds like they simply what what they want and their perception is very warped.

 

[yinekka]

I fully believe that Mass should be very reverent and try my best to stay active in learning about the faith. You are correct here. The Sacrifice of the Mass is not supposed to be fun; it is the unbloody representation of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary. It is the offering of Christ as victim to the Father and the Father’s acceptance of this sacrifice which is given to us to consume in Holy Communion.

For the last forty years catechesis in the authetic Catholic Faith has been, in the main, abysmal and so one can’t blame teenagers if their only idea of a religious service is that of the typical evangelical service. I don’t think that the Church has to surrender to the zeitgeist and turn the Mass into a mini rock concert just to get the youth to attend. Youth who do attend for the buzz will quickly become bored and move on to bigger and better things.

Perhaps the parish might be interested in having a speaker come to talk about the Sacrifice of the Mass to the young people in the parish. Failing this perhaps they might like to view a couple of good DVDs about Holy Mass. The Catholic Mass Revealed and Fr Larry Richards’ DVD of the Mass are two good ones. If Your Mind Wanders At Mass by Thomas Howard is a good read and his chapter on the Mass in *On Being Catholic * and of course Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper are also good for those who are interested.

Life Teen was founded in the Diocese of Phoenix, Arizona.In 2004 Phoenix Bishop Thomas Olmsted met in Rome with Cardinal Francis Arinze, of the Congregation for Divine Worship, about Life Teen.

As a result of that meeting a letter was sent to Life Teen:

"1. In accordance with the new GIRM, teens are no longer to enter the sanctuary for the Eucharistic prayer. Being in the sanctuary is to be reserved for the priest celebrant, concelebrants, and those performing a specific ministry.
2. The GIRM very specifically offers three options for the end of the Mass. We are to cease using the phrase “The Mass Never Ends, It Must Be Lived” and begin using one of the three prescribed endings found in the Missal.

1. After music practice or welcoming, please make sure there is a period of silence to begin the liturgical celebration.
2. As we have always taught, please make sure the music does not in any way detract from the action at the altar, ambo, or chair.
3. Please make sure that full implementation of the GIRM is done in accordance with your Diocese and accomplished with a spirit of joy."

Bottom line is that Life Teen Masses have to comply with the instructions in the GIRM just like every Mass. You can access the GIRM online.

I

 

[shuzo1189]

Since guitars and other plucked strings are MUCH more ancient than organs, I don’t know what they mean by “modern instruments”.

Actually, in the EF, the Pax was exchanged by a ritualized embrace. Ancient writers refer to an actual kiss at that point. Nothing especially modern about hugging at this point.

Sounds like they simply what what they want and their perception is very warped.

I wonder what the reaction of a 16th Century lay person would be if their parish had a “Lute Mass” (For extra pizazz lets throw in a recorder to appeal to those youths)

OP: I know Michael Voris (One True Faith/St.Michael’s Media) has a series of free Podcasts and Video’s walking through the various aspects of the faith and I know the Catholic Mass is definitely one topic they cover.

I also find it bizarre that there is some need to pander to us young people (I’m 20) to make the Mass more engaging and exciting. Honestly the more I learn about Traditional Catholicism the more I feel rather robbed of my Cultural patrimony. I have just recently learned the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin (Well except the Credo but im close) and I find it sad that something that a 11 year old would know fifty years ago I am just now catching on.

As an aside, I usually skip my College Neuman Club masses and just walk the extra 5min to the Parish with a Schola Cantorum. So you are not alone in the struggle!

and as always offer it up

 

[JamieMc]

Where on earth do they get the idea that Mass is supposed to be “fun”?

And what on earth do they mean by “like a worship service?”

The Celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is the most important service of worship this side of Heaven.

Where do you get the idea that Heaven on Earth is supposed to be Hell?
Ask some teens and I expect many will say that is what it’s like–especially the ones with Gregorian chant, organ music and all in Latin.
Obviously, there are some that are very involved in their faith and and get it but I think the question to ask is are we trying to drive teens towards the Church or drum teens out of the Church.
I’m not pretending at all to have any answers at all but I think the questions are more complicated that the "my-way or the “hi-way” attitude that is prevelant here. I’m sure I’ll get hate mail but I have serious concerns on how to get teens more involved in their faith, more involved in their church.
Can we have that conversation or can someone point me to where I can. I’ve taught confirmation classes for nine years and I despise the “Crayon Jesus” mentality of having teens do arts and crafts to keep them entertained but I’ve learned that if you do not meet them on their ground you will be totally tuned out.
This is such a complicated subject but such an important one because these kids aren’t the future of the Church the ARE the Church and we have to do something to reach them. If having a mass on Sunday evenings with contempary music helps put teen butts in the pews and is incorporated with something before or after mass where they LEARN about their faith so that they maintain their faith and carry it into the world to me that beats the alternative.
I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this post but like someone said–it’s a multi-pronged monster. I just want to entertain the discussion of how to keep our youth in the Church as opposed to pushing them away.

 

[grobyak]

Jamie makes some very important points worth discussing. I know that the rubrics of the GIRM say, but what good are rubrics when there is no personal conversion? I know that up until my own personal conversion (at 32 - I’m 40 now), it was all rules and regs that had no meaning.

Seems to me that parents are the key! The teens I worked with in LifeTeen at another diocese were dumped off by parents who seemed to think it was the Church’s responsibility to make them Catholic. In the RCIA program, parents did the same, and expected, if not outright demanded, that their kids be given this Sacrament, as it if was some civil right rather than a Sacrament. Without the conversion of parents, how can the kids ever be reached? I’ve seen kids show up to Mass in clothes much more a apropos for clubbing than worship, and the parents aren’t dressed a whole lot better. One mom let her son wear his ball cap through Mass. Another one texts through most of Mass, and he always seems to end up sitting right in front of me. Both his parents are there, and one day I’m going to grab his cell phone and snap it in half (and that’s after I pull up his pants around his neck - I don’t go to Mass to see what brand of boxers he’s wearing).

Obviously there are many points of consideration and no one approach is going to work. But it seems that without the true conversion of parents to Christ, kids are just that much harder to reach without something like LifeTeen and its feel-good approach. I’m not a big fan of this approach either, but it would have probably helped me as a teen to at least be more involved rather than be a surly, pouting bump in a pew.

BTW, I know this problem exists in evangelical churches too, so it’s by far not just a Catholic thing.

 

[Sr_Sally]

I am also involved with youth group and ways to reach out to teens and bring them closer to Christ and the Church. In our parish we try to involve them in the many, many devotions and practices of the Church that are distinctly Catholic. So the youth helped organize the Corpus Christi procession, they hold regular Holy Hours, that sort of thing. I wouldn’t say our youth program is a huge success because the percentage of teens who regularly attend is pretty small based on the size of our parish. However, I’m not sure that a lifeteen Mass would draw in such a significant number of kids. And anyway, our pastor doesn’t like the progran so there you go! lol

 

[stringbeanduck]

Thanks for the suggestions thus far, I will consider them.

The problem is like other have stated, it changing to make it fun for the teens. I don’t understand why these Life nights and what not aren’t enought that they must bring all that style of praise and worship in the Mass.

Even so, I see this program more about doing activities in the church and having fun rather than also learning the faith. Where is the part where you learn how to defend the faith? Being a teen, I can see it’s all about the fun and the doing things together, rather than teaching them importance of our faith.

 

[Harpazo]

Where do you get the idea that Heaven on Earth is supposed to be Hell?
Ask some teens and I expect many will say that is what it’s like–especially the ones with Gregorian chant, organ music and all in Latin.
Obviously, there are some that are very involved in their faith and and get it but I think the question to ask is are we trying to drive teens towards the Church or drum teens out of the Church.
I’m not pretending at all to have any answers at all but I think the questions are more complicated that the "my-way or the “hi-way” attitude that is prevelant here. I’m sure I’ll get hate mail but I have serious concerns on how to get teens more involved in their faith, more involved in their church.
Can we have that conversation or can someone point me to where I can. I’ve taught confirmation classes for nine years and I despise the “Crayon Jesus” mentality of having teens do arts and crafts to keep them entertained but I’ve learned that if you do not meet them on their ground you will be totally tuned out.
This is such a complicated subject but such an important one because these kids aren’t the future of the Church the ARE the Church and we have to do something to reach them. If having a mass on Sunday evenings with contempary music helps put teen butts in the pews and is incorporated with something before or after mass where they LEARN about their faith so that they maintain their faith and carry it into the world to me that beats the alternative.
I’m sure I’ll get flamed for this post but like someone said–it’s a multi-pronged monster. I just want to entertain the discussion of how to keep our youth in the Church as opposed to pushing them away.

Hello,

Your arguments sound extremely similar to those that I heard from those when I was Methodist. Many of the younger congregants wanted go the way of “contemporary worship.”

I don’t seek to flame you at all. I am curious with how you think contemporary music or Lifeteen-esque liturgies teach teens about the faith. From my experience when I was Catholic, all it did was teach kids how to be just like Protestants. They didn’t learn a thing about their faith.

What about contemporary worship makes them more knowledgeable about their faith and able to maintain it and share it?

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[pickguard1]

They(youth a my church) think Mass should be more attention grabbing which means having all modern(up beat) worship music, encouraged clapping even during communion, only modern instruments(no organ), only hugs during the “peace be with you”, more hand holding. This is what you have in Lifeteen Mass.

This is problematic, since holding that the Mass is NOT attention grabbing if it doesn’t have those elements is an implied denial of the supernatural nature of the Mass. Frankly, if an ordained priest holding the Body and Blood of Christ in his hands, and then receiving that same Savior in Communion is not attention grabbing enough to make one’s jaw drop, that person should be more focused on praying for increased faith and studying the doctrines and dogmas of the Church, rather than trying to turn it into a rock concert entertainment fest.

 

[pickguard1]

I also find it bizarre that there is some need to pander to us young people (I’m 20) to make the Mass more engaging and exciting. Honestly the more I learn about Traditional Catholicism the more I feel rather robbed of my Cultural patrimony.

This is exactly how I feel (I’m now 30 - yikes!) I have a feeling that what youth really need is not novelty, but a sense of tradition and discipline. I think it’s a natural thing for teens to need something that claims to be the end-all-be-all - somehting clear, consistent, and holy. Something that is set aside as special. Now I’m not saying that any Mass is not special - of course they all are! But in this sense I mean something that they can’t experience anywhere else. Introducing all kinds of modern rock music, Woodstock-esque hand holding and clapping turns the exterior presentation of the Mass into something that a teen can get just about anywhere.

I have often explained this to my mom like this. Why is it that so many young people (especially men/boys) are drawn to the military, or scouts, or some other organization? My gut says it is primarily because those organizations are very exclusive. They don’t try to be ALL things for everyone, they try to be ONE thing for everyone. They are drawn to the ritual, the ceremony, the perception of joining something “bigger than me.” - something generational-spanning. Making the Mass into a rock concert goes in the complete opposite direction. It becomes non-generational-spanning, it does become about “me”, since it brings into it what my current likes and dislike are.

I think this can (not always of course) cause kids to lose interest since it becomes something that is just another thing, not THE thing. Does this make any sense?

 

[pickguard1]

Can we have that conversation or can someone point me to where I can. I’ve taught confirmation classes for nine years and I despise the “Crayon Jesus” mentality of having teens do arts and crafts to keep them entertained but I’ve learned that if you do not meet them on their ground you will be totally tuned out.

I agree that we do need to do things to encourage teens to stay active in their faith. However, I think the real issue is that we need to make sure this done in their early childhood. We should be encouraging them to continue thier faith journey, not start it up. I think the sad fact is that many of these teens have probably been poorly catechized (I know I was), and don’t have a solid grasp of what “the point” really is. And, while you are correct that the point isn’t to make the Mass into a torture-fest, if you truly understand what the Mass is, no amount of Gregorian Chant or incense or Latin (or any other language for that mattter) would make you feel that it is a torture-fest. All that would be incorporated into the understanding of how beautiful it is. I think this is what the teens have missed out on - they don’t realize the inherent beauty of the mass, and whether it’s them that feels the need, or misguided adults trying to guess what the kids need, adding rock music to the mass ends up taking away from that beauty, because it draws one away from the eternal nature of the Sacrifice to the present of our modern-day culture.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Where do you get the idea that Heaven on Earth is supposed to be Hell?

The Divine Worship hell?

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Where do you get the idea that Heaven on Earth is supposed to be Hell?
Ask some teens and I expect many will say that is what it’s like–especially the ones with Gregorian chant, organ music and all in Latin…

The Divine Worship hell?

 

[Layman]

Some points:

1. Is LifeTeen tied into the Charismatic movement? If so, I say, avoid. Gibbering and emotional self-stimulation have little to do with piety. More like what happens at a voodoo ceremony or a rock concert.
2. Guitars and drums are the instruments of the troubador, singing to ‘da ladies’ about courtly love i.e. illicit sex, and sentimental feelings. They don’t belong in a church. The associations are wrong.
3. I wonder, even if you wanted it, how easy it would be to start up a regular Missa Cantata, [sarcasm] for the alien specie known variously as ‘The Youth’ or ‘The Young People’?. It’s not like they’re ubiquitous. So comparing the effect of such, with LifeTeen masses, is a non-starter, if there’s no Latin Mass.

In my opinion, any parish that has a Missa Cantata at the moment is a very lucky parish indeed.

4. Want to attract young people? Try holiness. Those that need it, will come. Religion ain’t entertainment.