Worried about Lifeteen coming to our Parish

[pickguard1]

In my opinion, any parish that has a Missa Cantata at the moment is a very lucky parish indeed.

4. Want to attract young people? Try holiness. Those that need it, will come. Religion ain’t entertainment.

to the first - very luck and very blessed!

To the second - I don’t know why this isn’t always the focus of efforts at attracting youth to Mass, and the Church. Isn’t that supposed to be the point? By way of analogy, you don’t show a child that you love him by letting him do whatever he feels like, in the hopes he’ll interpret that license to mean you love him. You show him what’s right and wrong right from the start. I think the same philosophy applies to the Mass - it is what it is (and for good reason), it doesn’t need to cater to you, you need to conform to it.

 

[stringbeanduck]

I agree, the receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord should be enough to the church. I think if teens can learn more respect for the Blessed Sacrament they would understand that the reverence isn’t boring, but necessary.

Anyways, I talked with our parish Priest today and here completely agrees with me. He will not allow the program into our church for the same reason I stated. We already have our youth group nights, and there are several retreats and activities that our available. This alone should be enough to encourage teens to be active. I will though go one step further and try set up some time to learn more about apologetics and the faith, when we have our high school CCD. I am very good friends with the teachers and sure they will listen to me. I know all these spirituality, worship, trust, and social activities that we have during youth group nights are good, but there needs to some time set aside for actually teaching and learning. Course the challenge about that is we go to school during Monday- Friday, so it’s learning is the last that they want to do.

Thanks for your help guys so far, because I will still need to explain my stance on this when the time comes.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Glad to hear you had a good result. There are some great feast days coming up–Transfiguration of Our Lord, Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Maybe you can plan special youth events for those days with a talk, Holy Hour, Benediction, and then food and discussion.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Thanks for the suggestions thus far, I will consider them.

The problem is like other have stated, it changing to make it fun for the teens. I don’t understand why these Life nights and what not aren’t enought that they must bring all that style of praise and worship in the Mass.

Even so, I see this program more about doing activities in the church and having fun rather than also learning the faith. Where is the part where you learn how to defend the faith? Being a teen, I can see it’s all about the fun and the doing things together, rather than teaching them importance of our faith.

Is your only objection to LifeTeen the music at Mass? We have a LifeTeen Mass in our parish and it is attended by many of the regular parishoners, not just the teens. The Liturgy is exactly the same. And, I might add, many of the parents attend with the teens, along with the rest of the family. The Mass is not a Charismatic Mass, and, besides contemporary music, more traditional music is also used. The priests do not gear their homilies toward the youth, but give their regular homilies. I think LifeTeen has been great in getting the teens in our parish interested in their faith, and it is not all about having fun.

 

[JamieMc]

It seems to me CB that for some that unless the mass is boring and stuffy than it’s not reverent. Some seem to think that if a teen has an emotional reation to it then it is only temporary while it’s okay for them to have an emotional reaction because it is “traditional” it’s okay.

To answer Sword Bretheren’s comment “The Divine Worship Hell?” I would say that if you asked some of the youth in the parish a traditional mass, with tradtional hymms and a tradional organ and tradional this and tradional that feels like hell and they will be driven away.

I fully agree that we need to educate the youth to fully appriciate what the mass is all about. I fully agree that we need to do better education starting in pre-school and hopefully that will carry forth to their formitive years and then their teen years and then their adult years. But we need to do something to reach those who are teens right now–to bring them into full communion and I believe that having a contemporary mass is one way to do so especially if it’s like the ones that CB describes and that I’ve been too—just a normal mass but with a little more uplifting music.

 

[thunderballs75]

Where do you get the idea that Heaven on Earth is supposed to be Hell?
Ask some teens and I expect many will say that is what it’s like–especially the ones with Gregorian chant, organ music and all in Latin…

Trust me dude, misleading them by trying to make the Mass something “fun” and “entertaining” is not going to help. It doesn’t matter how much you go to Mass if you don’t understand the sacraments and the teachings.

Not to present myself as being good at all, but I guarantee as a 16-yr. old Latin Mass goer that I’ve always understood the doctrines better than the LifeTeen kids, along with every single other teen in that Latin Mass. The Latin Mass is not boring, hell, or irreverent as you call it. I don’t think every Catholic teenager since Jesus felt celebrating Mass was “hell on earth” even without fun and upbeat music. Way more people that grew up in the Latin Mass held onto their faith, as opposed to this newer generation.

Besides, hate to break it to you, but contemporary Christian music is L-A-M-E! And honestly, every time I go to a local parish Mass, that seems more like hell to me. Imagine enduring that for eternity. It’s probably what Judas got.

 

[JamieMc]

I highly commend you for your depth of knowledge and spirituality. I’m sure you are a catechist dream. But you can’t say what knowledge the kid who goes to the Lifeteen mass has. There is a good chance that he isn’t as well educated as you but there is a good chance that he may not stick around if he’s bored.

And mass CAN be fun and entertaining. Do you think you need to hear a boring homily that is theologically deep to get anything out of it or do you enjoy a priests who speaks on your level (while still being theologically sound).

As someone who’s been involved in educating youth for eight years or so I’ve learned that you have to speak on their level. I HATE the crayon Jesus stuff (arts and crafts) but so many teens learn better that way than listening to a lecture. If you have a mass that a teen can relate too they are more likely to be more approachable and willing to learn. Ever hear Fr. Stan talk about the mass?? He is very reverent but at the same time speaking to the kids on their level.

You seem very special TB and I’d love to have you in my class but you have to remember that as teachers and as someone trying to get youth involved you have to be speaking to the lowest common denominator as well as to the star pupil.

 

[thunderballs75]

I highly commend you for your depth of knowledge and spirituality. I’m sure you are a catechist dream. But you can’t say what knowledge the kid who goes to the Lifeteen mass has. There is a good chance that he isn’t as well educated as you but there is a good chance that he may not stick around if he’s bored.

And mass CAN be fun and entertaining. Do you think you need to hear a boring homily that is theologically deep to get anything out of it or do you enjoy a priests who speaks on your level (while still being theologically sound).

As someone who’s been involved in educating youth for eight years or so I’ve learned that you have to speak on their level. I HATE the crayon Jesus stuff (arts and crafts) but so many teens learn better that way than listening to a lecture. If you have a mass that a teen can relate too they are more likely to be more approachable and willing to learn. Ever hear Fr. Stan talk about the mass?? He is very reverent but at the same time speaking to the kids on their level.

You seem very special TB and I’d love to have you in my class but you have to remember that as teachers and as someone trying to get youth involved you have to be speaking to the lowest common denominator as well as to the star pupil.

I only became a Catholic about two years ago, and by my own accord. I wasn’t brought up in the Catholic Faith. In fact, kids with a Catholic upbringing should have quite a start on me. I am not any more special than any other kid. Hate to say it, but I’ve mostly gotten terrible grades in middle school and high school. Last year overall GPA was 1.8, and that is not even the worst.

You need to understand though that youth, teens especially, aren’t as stupid as you may think (although may I not be an attestation to that statement )! And we don’t need dumbed-down liturgy nor dumbed-down homilies. Sorry if I seem rude, but you guys also have a common misconception that things like Contemporary Christian Rock, liturgical dancing, clapping, and holding hands are “cool”.

God bless.

 

[JamieMc]

No, I fully agree with you. Teens aren’t dumb at all and that’s why I do not like the dumbing down of education. I don’t think a contemporary service is dumbing down the mass at all though I think it’s more of meeting them where they are are. I go back to my “would you rather have a boring theologically deep homily that you don’t understand or an entertaining educational homily that seems to speak to you.”

I actually disagree on that part that the Catholic kids have a head start on you because unfortunately most teen age Catholics do not know their faith. Most adult catholics don’t know their faith well. That’s why I say that by pushing them away by sheer boredom is just pushing them away. I say make the mass as exciting as it is and not as boring as it’s been made to be.

 

[excelsus]

I don’t comprehend how going to mass can be “boring” for anyone if you really know what it is about. It is sad how many of my friends simply don’t care for traditions and the older style of mass. Of course, my school simply “appeals” to the young people (unfortunately including myself) in its masses; we have a guitar player, all that stuff. I don’t understand - I have an extreme liking for the traditions of the Church and studying and reading about theology is one of my favorite things to do.

I hope for all of our sake that I am not simply a relic from another generation…

 

[Layman]

I was a teenager in the 80’s. Clergy and religious were fixated on trying to appeal to ‘The Youth’ and ‘The Young People’. I think kids respond to such efforts the same way they do to their dads or uncles trying to be trendy; with pity and annoyance. It’s a bit like a teenager trying to act like a worldy-wise adult; doesn’t quite come off and amuses real adults.

The only things I recall reaching me as a youth were sincere religious instruction by the good brothers that taught us and one good brother’s efforts to teach us Gregorian Chant. The latter helped me get back to the heart of our religion 30 years later.

The happy-clappy ‘Youth’ stuff didn’t take at all. Religion is about getting people from This World to Heaven. It’s not about making the Heavenly mundane.

I think the case can be made that a generation of clergy, religious and laity were inspired by a ‘spirit’ in the 60’s, all right, which is still addling their perceptions of what is proper religious practice. It’s not a holy one, 'though.

Heck, they don’t even call it the Holy Ghost any more. It’s ‘The Spirit’ (which spirit?)

 

[JamieMc]

"I don’t comprehend how going to mass can be “boring” for anyone if you really know what it is about. "

I understand what’s going on at mass–the parts, whateverything means, how it’s Heaven on Earth, a miracle, bread and wine becoming the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and I get bored and distracted. "Hmmm, I wonder where we should eat after mass. What’s that person doing? Now don’t get me wrong, I like me a good tradional mass and I don’t really like it when the tamborines or other percussion instruments are brought it. I think they are kind of hokey. I’ve been to one contemporary mass where the music stunk up the joint. But I also enjoy a mass where the music is contemporary and very good. (in fact it’s where we are going this evening)

I think to say that teens don’t relate or “hook on” is a falicy.

“Religion is about getting people from This World to Heaven” ding ding ding!! We have a winner. And if they kids STOP going then they aren’t going to make it there. I believe that youth ministery is like a mission field. Do you know how the Catholic missionaries were able to convert people through the centuries?? They went to the natives where they were–they learned their language and didn’t try to make them European. We have to go to teens and let them know that it’s okay to be who they are and let them know it’s okay to be happy and joyous. That it’s okay to embrace their faith instead of mourning it.

“I think kids respond to such efforts the same way they do to their dads or uncles trying to be trendy; with pity and annoyance.”

Well, lets ask the experts–“Hey Emma–would you rather go to the mass at St. Gabes or a more traditional mass.”

“Gabes”

You are correct in that there is a line that you shouldn’t cross in youth ministery in trying to be trendy and “hip” when you aren’t. You have to be who you are. The kids can tell when you are being a fraud–being someone you aren’t. But you still have to reach out to them and connect and pull them in. If you can’t connect because you are too stuffy and unwilling to listen to them then you are not able to pull them in.

 

[grobyak]

I know that as a teen, all those many moons ago. I didn’t know what the Mass was about. The adults teaching us in CCD didn’t really know what it was about either, especially following Vatican 2. It wasn’t until my early 30s that I had that AHA moment, and that was after I left the Church and came back. I was bored to tears and figured I can have my own relationship with God in a personal way that makes sense to me. Boy was I wrong. But even that very windy and often flawed road led me eventually back home.

I don’t really know what I’m offering here other than to agree with Jamie on the point that I have a wandering mind even through I now know what’s going on. And while I agree that we need to meet teens where they are, making the Mass a fluffy feel-good show is doing them a disservice too. I know there is a balance to be struck somewhere, somehow, that honors the beauty and reverence of the Mass but also helps teens feel they are a part of the Body of Christ. LifeTeen is one avenue, so is Dead Theologians Society, and so is simply parents being parents instead of enablers and “best friends.” It goes back to my original point way at the beginning of this thread that evangelizing parents will help evangelize teens because the parents may actually LIVE their faith every day in the home instead of one day a week for an hour and Mass (yes, I know, not ALL parents do this - praise God for those who live and walk the faith every hour of the day…they seem to be a rare breed).

 

[excelsus]

Well, lets ask the experts–“Hey Emma–would you rather go to the mass at St. Gabes or a more traditional mass.”

“Gabes”

I must ask, has she ever been to the traditional mass? Because even some people who say they would not like it enjoy it once they try. I just can’t understand the wording; I mean it sounds like you are saying that for the first time.

 

[jantoniello]

JMJ​

The Life Teen program fostered my faith. It helped me grow in knowledge and love of God…when I paid attention at least.

Since high school, I have been helping as a part of the CORE team and I do consider myself a traddy. But these things can coexist. The liturgy is something that has grown from what it was when I was going to Mass as a teen. At a point, there was clapping. There was drums. There was expressive prayer (ejaculative prayer…whatever you wish to call it). But it has grown. And praise God, it has become more traditional. More rooted in the truth of the Holy Liturgy. The hermeneutic of continuity doesn’t just go between Missals…it moves in time. We began to demand a change, because we lost the very idea of what is sacred. We failed to realize the glory of it all.

As we became more learned in our Catholic faith, we began to demand a more perfect Mass (aesthetically, most notably in our music). We still have praise and worship in the Mass. There are still guitars (praise God, no drums), and there aren’t any soloes anymore. But there is a reverence that wasn’t there when I was a teen. There are still the more Charismatic Catholics that are raising their hands during the music, but they are raising them in loving prayer as we sing the Kyrie…in its Greek no less! We must merely teach what the Mass is as Catechists…that is all you need to do. Kids aren’t dumb. They can recognize what is sacred, if only they are taught correctly.

EXAMPLE: We have a couple teens in our program who began as most teens do: ignorant and indifferent. They did not have a reverence at Mass. They loved the drums and praise and worship music, clapping and all that. But as they began to learn from the CORE team (which has been pretty solid traddy for quite some time), they began to learn what the Mass was. The sacredness of the Mass began to overwhelm them. They no longer hold hands during the Our Father. They no longer run to the front of the altar at youth rallies with the other kids to do hand motions to some terrible song. They even stop others from doing these things, both by example and actual physical stopping. They love the Mass in all its wonder.

A friend and I were talking today, and she comes from a very charismatic background. But she was raised in a sedevacantist community at the same time. She is the ultimate Catholic. She said something that really rings true, especially in regards to the Life Teen program. "As a Charismatic, you begin with no restraint. Praying over people left and right in tounges and all of that. But you begin to realize that you need order."

Life Teen has shaped up (somewhat) since I was in high school. It continues to shape itself in the mold of the Church. Don’t fear the Life Teen program. Don’t let the Mass get to you. If you are a youth leader, teach piety by example. If you are a CORE member/youth director/catechist, teach by piety and catechesis. Kids aren’t stupid. Just give them truth.

Pax et bonum,
Joseph

 

[Holly3278]

I consider myself a traditional Catholic. Granted I don’t go to a TLM all 7 days of the week, but I fully believe that Mass should be very reverent and try my best to stay active in learning about the faith. Unfortunately our Parish youth are trying to put in a Life teen Mass. I am very against this as our Masses already have drums, guitar, tambourines, and some modern upbeat songs ect… I feel very alone on this issue as I am the only one out of the youth who opposes having one. Everybody thinks Mass should be more fun, and more like a worship service. As one of the youth leaders at the church I do carry some respect and it will come time to where I need to speak up about, most likely at one of our meetings. I need some help, whether it be by links or advice why we should have a Life teen mass in our church. Also I will be speaking to our Priest about this as well.

Drums, guitars, and tambourines??? Wow. Sounds like a Pentecostal church service!

 

[pickguard1]

[A friend and I were talking today, and she comes from a very charismatic background. But she was raised in a sedevacantist community at the same time. She is the ultimate Catholic. She said something that really rings true, especially in regards to the Life Teen program. **“As a Charismatic, you begin with no restraint. Praying over people left and right in tounges and all of that. But you begin to realize that you need order.”

This is what really brought me home. And particularly to The Traditional Latin Mass. (although I do attend OF masses when I can’t make it to an EF). When I went away to college, I went to a Mass at the campus Newman Center, and the priest had the students come up around the altar at the consecration (I didn’t go, because I didn’t know what was going on). They all held hands and the two nearest the priest had their hands on his shoulders. Then they all said the words of consecration together! I was flabbergasted and (unfortunately) didn’t go to mass for at least a year after that. I figured if it had come to the point that ANYTHING could happen during the Mass, it wasn’t as special as it claimed to be. Naturally, the following year + was filled with a very typical college hedonistic lifestyle, and became somewhat self-destructive. What I needed was ORDER. For me, going to a Traditional Latin Mass (for the first time in my life) exposed me to a stable form of worship that didn’t cater to me or my personal whims, but called on me to focus on the holiness of the Sacrifice. I’ve been through a lot of struggles since then, and thank God that He brought me back to Him (because some of those struggles would have been nearly unbearable without Him), but I often wonder if I would have ever even had the personal crisis I did have, if I had had that order and stability from the get go…

I’m not saying that going to the EF is the only place to get that order and stability, but I have found that I always know what to expect, and what’s expected of me at them - something I still can’t say I’ve found when going to the OF. (again - I have been to plenty of reverent OF masses that adhere to the GIRM rubrics - even one with some parts said in Latin!) But, since it’s not uniform at all from location to location, that order and stability still isn’t there for me.

I think that the order issue is the most important for teens and young adults, because this is when we’re trying to break away and establish ourselves - that’s the point in our lives where almost everything else seems to be “out of order.” It makes sense to me that the most important facet of our lives (or at least what should be) should always be able to give us the groudning back into reality, not confuse us more about what is and what isn’t important.

 

[JaMc]

Drums, guitars, and tambourines??? Wow. Sounds like a Pentecostal church service!

This is what I experienced at the Newman Center when I went to University. For some reason, it’s assumed that, if you are under 30, you want a “Revival Meetin’.” For me, it was more annoying and distracting than anything else. After a couple of months, I started going to the parish off campus - still “Novus Ordo” all the way, but a lot more reverent (though, even they did that Gloria with the hand-clapping once in a while - “Gloria! clap clap, Gloria! clap clap” - but at least not all the time).

While some may argue that the range of options is one of the positive things about Vatican II, I can’t help but wonder, as someone pointed out on here a while back on a different thread, if we are moving toward the “Anglican Model” of High Church and Low Church.

 

[thunderballs75]

I believe in Thomas Aquinas’ Principle of Double Effect, you cannot use immoral means even to get to a moral end. It is immoral to add liturgical abuses such as clapping, dancing, and drums to the holy sacrifice of the Mass. The Mass is valid of course, but it doesn’t mean it is okay. Rape gets the victim just as pregnant as the right way, but it doesn’t mean it is okay.

 

[GuitarTom]

Yikes Thunderballs75!

Referencing/comparing rape in a discussion about LifeTeen?!

I am a 56 year old new member to this forum and a LifeTeen band member at our church in MA. I play guitar, piano, bass, organ, mandolin and drums and also play at our 10:00 traditional Mass. If we polled 10 Catholics in a room we’d get 10 different opinions as to how the Mass should be conducted.

Our LT Mass is respectful and celebratory. Please listen to Mat Maher, a Catholic musician who has the gift of bringing reverent music to a Mass. We play a lot of his music.

Teens are not coming to Mass! Is this a fair statement? When they get to the age when they decide to go or not they do not go. Shame on us for not figuring out a way to get them to Mass. LT is an attempt to do this. Some LT prgrams work some do not. Some priests give great homilies, some do not.

If there are two parishes in the same community I’ll bet that the friendlier more welcoming and inviting parish will see an increase in attendance while the other will see a decline. Go to Rome and you’ll see that the Mass’s there are empty. The “new faith” churches, where many Catholics now go, are growing. Catholic church attendance is declining.

I consider myself a traditional Catholic but am distressed by the lack of attendance and growth of the non-denominational churches. The good news is that Christian ranks are growing. The bad news is that it is not Catholic ranks.

A well run LT prgram is a wonderful thing. The key is that the priest must play a hugh part in it and follow the LT rules. It is not an easy thing to do and takes a hugh committment on the part of the parish comminuty. It will be important to support it. Teens will sense the lack of support early on and abandon it early on if not done correctly and with enthusiasm.

We as a Catholic community have failed our youth if we can’t figure out how to bring faith back into their lives.