Worrying blog post from Father Z

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twf said:
Fr Z is very popular and also very sensational. I used to love his blog. Under Pope Benedict he had a lot of great liturgical reflections. Very intelligent man. But in the last several years his blog has become increasingly sensational and divisive. While he hasn’t himself proclaimed +Francis an anti-pope, some of his readers have, and worse…their comments show up on his blog posts.
There’s still good stuff and I agree with much of what he says, but I think some of his posts are way out there…
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The Francis-effect!
 
I speak Italian so I could read in the webpages in which occasion these pictures were taken plus I lived there 20+ years so I guarantee I attended many masses there and visited many churches. I think in Italy in general people are not so stiff as in US and often rules are up to ‘interpretation’ and exceptions.
 
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aroosi said:
I speak Italian so I could read in the webpages in which occasion these pictures were taken
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That still does not clear up my concerns of what might be the occassion and why or how the flowers got there. Perhaps the priest did it, perhaps the ladies of the church. ?? (more than likely)
aroosi said:
I think in Italy in general people are not so stiff as in US and often rules are up to ‘interpretation’ and exceptions.
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Perhaps, I can’t answer to that either so again I think I will stick with and trust what the GIRM of the Vatican clearly says because maybe this lack of following the rules you say is happening is what has led to so much of the irreverence we see now at Mass.

If it was only Father Z who was concerned I would say yes, he is making a big deal out of nothing but I read about and heard about the plant and the rules from other priests long before reading this thread. Father Z is not alone.
 
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Now I am the one confused. You strictly follow the GIRM guidelines from the Vatican but you also believe Fr Z claim that the Pope (and many bishops) are doing demonic ceremonies in the Vatican?!?!?!
 
I dont know about the demonic part but isn’t that the concern, why was the Amazon plant in the black bowl placed on the altar rather than taken to the side with the rest of the gifts, which as i understand is also part of the GIRM, gifts do not get placed on altar.
 
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I told you already. Most probably because in Italy flowers are often placed ON the Altar. Why you guys see conspiracy everywhere?
 
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That goes against the rules coming from Rome Italy.

It was not just a flower placed there for decor but one of many gifts brought up at the offering and the only gift placed on the altar.
 
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Anyway I scrolled in internet the official guidelines of some of the Italian Dioceses and the general consent is that flowers are admitted ON the Altar but they need to be cut (without roots, to symbolize something that is offered/sacrificed) and should not be bulky or at the center of the Altar (I guess mostly for practical reason). Again, this may be an adaptation to local traditions. Funny enough in one website they were literally saying please don’t make the Altar and the Altar area a florist winter house. 🤣
 
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Can you provide links with what the official rules are?
 
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I’m just glad these people weren’t around when the Dia de los Muertos was instituted, and Aztec traditions surrounding dead ancestors were transferred from August to be celebrated with All Saints Day and All Souls Day…which has been in November since Pope Gregory IV transferred All Saints Day from March to November in order to supplant Northern European festivals surrounding the dead.

Or maybe they were around and sounding alarms, and Pope Gregory just ignored them. We’ll never know. Suffice it to say that incorporating aboriginal symbolism to explain Christian truths is not a new or untried concept. The truth is that the Universal Church is the richer for it.
 
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IanM said:
Father John Zuhlsdorf has posted a very worrying blog post stating that it appears that whilst wooden idols of Pachamama were kept from the final synod Mass, a bowl of earth containing some odd looking flowers was actually placed on the altar at the Offertory. He provides some very convincing evidence that this item, combined with other items buried in the earth of such a bowl, can be used for a service of worship to this particular pagan goddess . Further photographic evidence and links are presented which make for very frightening conclusions…
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Maybe he ought to write a letter to the Supreme Liturgist of the Church, who has the authority to make these decisions?
Tis_Bearself said:
God has said that the gates of hell shall not prevail against his church, so simply pray for the Church and the Holy Father and for the reparation of mankind’s sins, and trust in God.
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This!
 
MagdalenaRita said:
It was not just a flower placed there for decor but one of many gifts brought up at the offering and the only gift placed on the altar.
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Ultimately, this debate is not about flowers on the altar. It is technically an abuse, but a minor one and was at various times a common custom.

This is about the possibility of an offering to a false god (whether it be Pachamama or the planet earth itself) being put on the altar. Why was it even brought up with the hosts during the Mass? Watch the video of the Mass–it is very out of place.

The supreme liturgist does not have authority to incorporate the worship of false gods into Mass. I would simply assume he was clueless as to what it may have been, and didn’t know what else to do with it, but who knows.
 
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Last I heard, Fr. Z is not a mind reader. Things are not always as they appear. Until the complete story is known…

Time for prayer, not paranoia.
 
twf said:
Fr Z is very popular and also very sensational. I used to love his blog. Under Pope Benedict he had a lot of great liturgical reflections. Very intelligent man. But in the last several years his blog has become increasingly sensational and divisive. While he hasn’t himself proclaimed +Francis an anti-pope, some of his readers have, and worse…their comments show up on his blog posts.
There’s still good stuff and I agree with much of what he says, but I think some of his posts are way out there…
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And for this reason I stop reading his blog a few years ago. It’s too bad really. I loved his blog under B16.
 
Has anyone stopped to wonder if maybe, just maybe, this is just a popular style of bowl from the Amazonian region?
 
mrsdizzyd said:
And for this reason I stop reading his blog a few years ago. It’s too bad really. I loved his blog under B16.
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To be fair, he really tried to give Pope Francis a shot and the presumption of being in continuity with his predecessors with his “reading Francis through Benedict” thing. But it sadly became untenable over time as more and more…questionable…things went on in his pontificate.

Unfortunately, he’s kind of on his own without any parish or flock to give attention to–other than those with concerns who have no where else to turn for a sympathetic ear–and so I can see how he could get overwhelmed by the stuff going on in and coming out of Rome these days.
 
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