Contrast Matthew 6:12, addressed to a covenant people [Israel] still under the law, with what Paul writes for folks not under the law in this dispensation of the grace of God:If I do not forgive others for their trespasses, will He continue to forgive me for all eternity?
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 6:12[/BIBLEDRB]
James" Many, on this forum, in previous threads have used Coll. 1:24 to “prove” that you have to work to be saved. Thus, implying that Christ’s work on the cross wasn’t sufficient to fully save us. I have actually had a RCC priest tell me that Christ’s work on the cross was only about 90% of what is required for salvation. WHEW!It is dangerous in such matters to “read into” the comments of others. Obviously there are passages in Scripture that give cause for great joy and hope in our forgiveness and salvation. Yet there are others…Cautionary ones that must be factored in. Otherwise one is left with a faith lacking in important elements.
No one is saying that the Lords death was insufficient.
And Yet -
Jesus DID instruct us to ask forgiveness in proportion to how we forgive.
Jesus DID say to the Apostles, "Those who’s sins you forgive, they are forgiven, those who’s sins you retain, they are retained.
St Paul took grave issue with the Corinthians (I think) over one of their number (evidently a baptized member of the community) living openly in sin and Paul exhorted them to put this person out of the community.
Repentance requires reform…Reform takes time…and often involves stumbling…stumbling requires rededication and rededication requires a renewal of forgiveness. Therefore we ask forgiveness for those times when we have failed in our efforts to reform - to form ourselves to Christ.
Peace
James
o’k! See above!thank you zz912 for leading us to scripture that defends mary as “mother of god”.
Quickcat, to deny mary her title is to deny christ his. To deny mary as the mother of god is to deny that mary’s son, jesus, is god or to deny that god really became mary’s son.
Jesus took on mary’s human nature and that is why we say that jesus is truly human, not half and jesus took on his father’s nature and that is why we say that jesus is truly divine, not half. God truly born from mary his human mother and that is how she gets her title as ‘mother of god’.
You state your religion as no so i assume that you are an atheist? Although you ask wasn’t the lord’s death on the cross sufficient to save us so i also assume that you are christian? So regardless of what religion you practice:
Jesus redeemed all of us; even those who do not know his holy name. Jesus died on the cross not just for the christian, but for the jew, the muslim, the buddhist and even the atheist as st. Paul states:
1 tim. 2:6: Who gave himself as ransom for all.
But that free gift of salvation is contingent upon our individual response to christ; what do we do with this free gift?
Matt. 24:13: But, the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. To the end of what? The tribulation - vs 29. Addressed to those in the tribulation period and pertains to physical delivery.
Why do we have to persevere to the end? Not addressed to believers in this dispensation of the grace of god - applies to those who endure the tribulation.
This verse is implying that we are not already saved but what is the state of our soul at the end of our earthly journey? You are entirely mistaken here! See above.
And that is why st. Paul states in 1 tim. 4:10: “for this we toil and struggle, because we have set our hope on the living god, who is the savior of all, especially of those who believe.”
so i do believe st. Paul does attach an atoning value to his own sufferings as he says that he has the hope that he will be saved not that he is alreay saved and so should we, not that we already are: Paul knew without a doubt that he was saved, and sealed. 1 cor 15:1-4; eph. 1:13; 2 tim 4 entire chapter.
Rom.5:2: “through whom we have gained access (by faith) to this grace in which we stand, and we boast in hope of the glory of god.” why would he boast in hope if he already knew he had it?
So, like st. Paul, we are called to work out our salvation in fear and trembling: We are called to work out that which is already there - our salvation. Paul doesn’t contradict himself in romans 4:4-5.
Phil. 2:12, so, then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when i am present but all the more now when i am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." see above.
What point are you making with col.1:18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. ???
Notice a contrast: Peter raises our lord in resurrection to be a prince and savior to israel - acts 5:30-31, while paul raises him to be head of the church, the body of christ.
Scripture is stating that jesus is the head of the body, the church and that christ was the first to be raised immortal from the grave.
You were asked a question. Please answer the question.Contrast Matthew 6:12, addressed to a covenant people [Israel] still under the law, with what Paul writes for folks not under the law in this dispensation of the grace of God:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
Quite a difference!
QC
You just completely failed to address Colossians 1:24. You talk as though this concept is shocking to you, but Colossians 1:24 is part of the holy scriptures. You have to find some way to reconcile it with your beliefs, or you have to adapt your beliefs to comply with scripture. If Colossians 1:24 is not proof of our position, then you need to explain why, not simply express incredulity. That doesn’t really acknowledge the issue.James" Many, on this forum, in previous threads have used Coll. 1:24 to “prove” that you have to work to be saved. Thus, implying that Christ’s work on the cross wasn’t sufficient to fully save us. I have actually had a RCC priest tell me that Christ’s work on the cross was only about 90% of what is required for salvation. WHEW!
Grace and Peace,
QC
Are you really asserting that the Gospel of Matthew was not intended for believers, but for those still under the Old Covenant? Or just Chapter 6? What about the other Gospels? The Lord’s Prayer is also in the Gospel of Luke.Contrast Matthew 6:12, addressed to a covenant people [Israel] still under the law…
Actually, I see a parallel between Matthew 6:12 and Ephesians 4:32.…, with what Paul writes for folks not under the law in this dispensation of the grace of God:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
Quite a difference!
QC
Not sure what your point is here…You speak of “work to be saved” here but you were responding to my post about forgiveness…James" Many, on this forum, in previous threads have used Coll. 1:24 to “prove” that you have to work to be saved. Thus, implying that Christ’s work on the cross wasn’t sufficient to fully save us. I have actually had a RCC priest tell me that Christ’s work on the cross was only about 90% of what is required for salvation. WHEW!
Grace and Peace,
QC
Very nice…Now, evaluate that passage with this one from 1 Cor 5…Contrast Matthew 6:12, addressed to a covenant people [Israel] still under the law, with what Paul writes for folks not under the law in this dispensation of the grace of God:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
Quite a difference!
QC