Worship Style: Church of God: Cleveland v Andrerson

[HaroldA]

Hello. What is the practical difference in worship between the Church of God - Cleveland, Tennessee and the Church of God - Anderson, Indiana? The Anderson group is holiness but not Pentecostal. Is the practical difference, then, that the Cleveland churches’ worship is more “spirited” (sorry about the pun!) than Anderson churches’ worship? And the Andreson churches’ worship is more mainline Protestant?

 

[SaintFrancis333]

They both lack the fullness of Truth and are made by men and/or women, not by God Himself. What else is there to say?

 

[robwar]

Hello. What is the practical difference in worship between the Church of God - Cleveland, Tennessee and the Church of God - Anderson, Indiana? The Anderson group is holiness but not Pentecostal. Is the practical difference, then, that the Cleveland churches’ worship is more “spirited” (sorry about the pun!) than Anderson churches’ worship? And the Andreson churches’ worship is more mainline Protestant?

Why do you want to know? There is a thread ask a pentecostal, Itwin is pretty knowledgable, he might have the answer for you.

 

[Trebor135]

Tangential, I know, but I’d like to confirm if either of these groups are even trinitarian…

 

[ltwin]

Hello. What is the practical difference in worship between the Church of God - Cleveland, Tennessee and the Church of God - Anderson, Indiana? The Anderson group is holiness but not Pentecostal.

That’s one big difference already. As Pentecostal, the Cleveland group will believe in the use of spiritual gifts during services. Speaking in tongues, interpretation in tongues, prophecy, words of knowledge, and words of wisdom during the service. There may or may not be dancing/running/slaying in the Spirit.

I’m not sure about the Anderson group, but I know most Cleveland group churches will feature contemporary worship during their services, with a modern band (guitars, drums, piano/keyboard, and perhaps a brass section) and maybe a choir with lyrics projected.

Is the practical difference, then, that the Cleveland churches’ worship is more “spirited” (sorry about the pun!) than Anderson churches’ worship? And the Andreson churches’ worship is more mainline Protestant?

Both groups are Trinitarian. The Anderson group is not “mainline.” They are Wesleyan-Holiness and as far from the historic “mainline” as you can get. They would be considered part of the broader evangelical movement.

Both the Cleveland and Anderson group come out of the Wesleyan-Holiness Movement. So both theologies are Wesleyan and both groups have the same catalogue of beliefs no longer practiced. They both had similar policies related to fashion and “outward apparel,” which they have now mostly dropped.

However, it should be pointed out: While the two groups have the same name (Church of God) they are not historically related. They are just different Holiness churches that both chose the name “Church of God” as their denominational name because it was a “biblical” name.

 

[ltwin]

I managed to pull up some youtube videos. The first is an oldie, but it suffices to show the “old time” Pentecostal worship of the Cleveland group: I’ll Lay These Burdens Down (Robe and Crown).

They have toned down a lot over the years: HOLY GHOST COME ON DOWN – CHURCH OF GOD MASS CHOIR

This is a Anderson “heritage” sing along: Singing at NAC 2003

This is contemporary worship from Anderson: Guest Worship Leader - North American Convention of the Church of God 2

 

[HaroldA]

Thanks, everyone!

 

[DaveBj]

Tangential, I know, but I’d like to confirm if either of these groups are even trinitarian…

They are. (I was raised CoG Cleveland, familiar with Anderson.)

For the OP, I’m pretty sure that Bill Gaither is CoG Anderson; I do know that he went to their college. There are plenty of his videos on YouTube. I’m not sure how characteristic they of Anderson CoG worship style, but I don’t think that he would be going radically against how he was raised.

 

[RyanBlack]

Tangential, I know, but I’d like to confirm if either of these groups are even trinitarian…

My paternal grandparents were Church of God (Cleveland), which is strongly trinitarian in belief. My grandmother despised oneness Pentecostalism exactly because it denies the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[just_came_back]

I won’t touch this thread with a ten foot pole. The very fact that I was subjected to CofG Cleveland pandemonium starting at the age of 3 is one of the very reasons I am seeing a shrink to this day. Children should NEVER be exposed to this sort of lunacy and I am living proof.

 

[Trebor135]

I won’t touch this thread with a ten foot pole. The very fact that I was subjected to CofG Cleveland pandemonium starting at the age of 3 is one of the very reasons I am seeing a shrink to this day. Children should NEVER be exposed to this sort of lunacy and I am living proof.

Wow, that’s truly awful. What happened exactly, if I may ask?

 

[Trebor135]

Also…

To those who commented on the matter above–thanks for confirming that these denominations are trinitarian.

It was actually another group that I had in mind… but I can’t quite remember what their name was. Any ideas?

 

[ltwin]

I won’t touch this thread with a ten foot pole. The very fact that I was subjected to CofG Cleveland pandemonium starting at the age of 3 is one of the very reasons I am seeing a shrink to this day. Children should NEVER be exposed to this sort of lunacy and I am living proof.

I’m sorry about your personal problems, and if they do originate from participation in a church that is unfortunate. For the record, I’d like to say I’ve been in Pentecostal “pandemonium” all my life and I’m perfectly normal (I think).

 

[ltwin]

Also…

To those who commented on the matter above–thanks for confirming that these denominations are trinitarian.

It was actually another group that I had in mind… but I can’t quite remember what their name was. Any ideas?

The Worldwide Church of God. They rejected the Trinity under their founder, Herbert W. Armstrong. Thankfully, after Armstrong’s death, this church (now known as Grace Communion International) embraced Christian orthodoxy. There are still schismatic groups who believe in “Armstrongism.”

I will point out, the WCG has roots in Seventh-day churches. There is no relationship with either COG Anderson or GOG Cleveland.

 

[just_came_back]

I’m sorry about your personal problems, and if they do originate from participation in a church that is unfortunate. For the record, I’d like to say I’ve been in Pentecostal “pandemonium” all my life and I’m perfectly normal (I think).

Consider yourself blessed. Again, no harm. I’ll see you in Heaven brother!

 

[just_came_back]

The Worldwide Church of God. They rejected the Trinity under their founder, Herbert W. Armstrong. Thankfully, after Armstrong’s death, this church (now known as Grace Communion International) embraced Christian orthodoxy. There are still schismatic groups who believe in “Armstrongism.”

I will point out, the WCG has roots in Seventh-day churches. There is no relationship with either COG Anderson or GOG Cleveland.

What about COG Charleston, TN? They seem, from what I’ve read, to be more charismatic than COG Cleveland. In fact, these days COG Cleveland, in some circles, is considered liberal in pentecostal circles.

 

[DaveBj]

What about COG Charleston, TN? They seem, from what I’ve read, to be more charismatic than COG Cleveland. In fact, these days COG Cleveland, in some circles, is considered liberal in pentecostal circles.

Ain’t it da trut’! I was raised in the CoG back in the '50s and '60s, when it was a holiness denomination: no movies, no smoking/drinking, no divorce, uncut hair on women–the list went on and on. Everything that was “of the world” was taboo. Now the ladies in our Catholic parish have more of a “holiness” look than the women at the CoG where I sometimes have to make an appearance for a family funeral.

With regard to the “pandemonium,” I can remember some camp meetings that were rather “pandemonious,” to the point where trying to carry on a conversation was pointless.
However, the local congregations that I attended up to the point where I left the denomination (1996) were rather sedate. However, I went to a service at an independent charismatic church (accompanying a family member that I was visiting), started by a graduate of the CoG’s Lee University, and the sound level there was so high that it was painful. If it had been a factory, OSHA would have required everyone in the building to wear hearing protection. It was a moderate-size room with a low ceiling; there was no reason for the level of amplification that they were using. There apparently is still a mind-set that volume = anointing. Makes it kinda hard to hear the “still small voice.”

 

[ltwin]

What about COG Charleston, TN? They seem, from what I’ve read, to be more charismatic than COG Cleveland. In fact, these days COG Cleveland, in some circles, is considered liberal in pentecostal circles.

Isn’t COG Charleston one of the split-offs from the COG Cleveland? There have been a number of them over the years. The core doctrines would be the same, but COG Cleveland is the largest and is the most mainstream.

I wouldn’t say it was “liberal.” Pentecostals as a whole have sort of moved on from the more strict “clothesline” holiness mindset, though there certainly are Pentecostals who still believe that.

 

[just_came_back]

Ain’t it da trut’! I was raised in the CoG back in the '50s and '60s, when it was a holiness denomination: no movies, no smoking/drinking, no divorce, uncut hair on women–the list went on and on. Everything that was “of the world” was taboo. Now the ladies in our Catholic parish have more of a “holiness” look than the women at the CoG where I sometimes have to make an appearance for a family funeral.

With regard to the “pandemonium,” I can remember some camp meetings that were rather “pandemonious,” to the point where trying to carry on a conversation was pointless.
However, the local congregations that I attended up to the point where I left the denomination (1996) were rather sedate. However, I went to a service at an independent charismatic church (accompanying a family member that I was visiting), started by a graduate of the CoG’s Lee University, and the sound level there was so high that it was painful. If it had been a factory, OSHA would have required everyone in the building to wear hearing protection. It was a moderate-size room with a low ceiling; there was no reason for the level of amplification that they were using. There apparently is still a mind-set that volume = anointing. Makes it kinda hard to hear the “still small voice.”

Yep. Of course I have seen some COG preachers call out those who take the “worship” a little too far. Talk about some tension in the room? Whew…

at the church I grew up in, we had an evangelist from over near Charlotte come in for a Sun-Wed session. Well, a group from a nearby church came over Sun night and let’s just say became the service themselves. Mon night came and soon after the choir was finished the evangelist took to the pulpit and said “I didn’t get to deliver the message last night. Well tonight, I’m preaching. We need to hear the Word.”

The “group” sat in stone silence and never came back the remaining 2 nights. I laughed. Dude was a good evangelist too. Never had a problem with the preaching growing up, it was always the charismatic over the top theatrics. Never understood why these preachers looked and sounded so mad as if God himself was some deviant bully who got off on scaring people. Again, not going into too much, but very traumatized, starting at age 3 and even now at 38, still get mad thinking about it.

Never had a problem with the preaching, well most of it, some guys were just arrogant men but I’ve seen some priests that fit that mode as well.

 

[ltwin]

Ain’t it da trut’! I was raised in the CoG back in the '50s and '60s, when it was a holiness denomination: no movies, no smoking/drinking, no divorce, uncut hair on women–the list went on and on. Everything that was “of the world” was taboo. Now the ladies in our Catholic parish have more of a “holiness” look than the women at the CoG where I sometimes have to make an appearance for a family funeral.

That attitude was left behind a while ago. AG, PHC, etc. are all the same.

With regard to the “pandemonium,” I can remember some camp meetings that were rather “pandemonious,” to the point where trying to carry on a conversation was pointless.
However, the local congregations that I attended up to the point where I left the denomination (1996) were rather sedate.

Sedate is a nice way to say it. Some would say “DEAD.” And I’m not beating up on the COG. I’m referring to Pentecostal churches generally. As my aunt once said, “All the Pentecostal churches are weak. The Church of God----weak. The PCG----weak. The Pentecostal Holiness—weak!.” And it’s not about worship style, but Pentecostals have forgotten about the spiritual gifts. What point is there to being Pentecostal if all you want to be is Baptist but with better music?

However, I went to a service at an independent charismatic church (accompanying a family member that I was visiting), started by a graduate of the CoG’s Lee University, and the sound level there was so high that it was painful. If it had been a factory, OSHA would have required everyone in the building to wear hearing protection. It was a moderate-size room with a low ceiling; there was no reason for the level of amplification that they were using. There apparently is still a mind-set that volume = anointing. Makes it kinda hard to hear the “still small voice.”

Oh yes. I don’t like churches that turn the sound system volume up just for the sake of it. My pastor likes to hear himself scream, and it gets on my nerves.