IMHO, with us Catholics, you can tell we’ve gone to far when the case is we haven’t gone far enough. By that I mean, veneration of Saints is in the context of worshipping God. When that context slips, and veneration becomes for the Saint in and of themselves, we need to be reminded that Saints guide us to discipleship of Jesus, and not to themselves.
Myself, I don’t spend any time trying to disfern the inward disposition of the one doing the venerating. Even what appears to an outsider as an intense veneration of a Saint to the detrement of God, the inward disposition can and will be focused even more intently on Jesus.
Interesting, thanks.
Theological definitions are dulia, hyper-dulia and latria. We can love and worship our family close friends and others as worthy examples of Christian discipleship, but an extra amount of worthiness is seen in a Mother, who is given an extra amount of worship. This form of worship is recognizing what God has done through His creation, and so the Saints and Mary are venerated for their roles that God has given them. Mary’s being unique and tied to her Son, and so she is unique above all the Saints. (Blessed among women.) Of course we recognize that none of these people are gods.
The type of worship given to the Holy Trinity alone, is immeasurably above what is given to others. Latria, adoration of God, is for God alone because He is God and there is no other God.
I do still find it odd that we need a separate form of “worship” for Mary. What happens if one worships a Saint other than Mary in the same way in which Mary is worshiped? Is such a sin?
As a side note, you do understand that I could never conform to this style of “worship” for human beings, even if I called myself Roman Catholic.
Can you provide evidence that Paul knew he was writing Scripture?
He was writing to a specific church about a specific problem. He was telling them they were no longer bound by the Law. You can twist it all you want, but that’s all Paul is saying here.
I had, actually. But I can add to it, sure.
Colossians 4:16 And when this letter has been read among you, have it also read in the church of the Laodiceans; and see that you also read the letter from Laodicea.
You can see here that Paul applied all of his writings as Scripture and to be read in all of the Church’s. Paul not only wants this letter read in Laodicea, but he wants the Laodicean letter read in the Colossae. Obviously Paul believed that all of the words in both of those letters were true and could be read by either Church.
Paul again repeats this style of admonishment in different letters:
1 Thess 5:27 I put you under oath before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers.
2 Thess 3:14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
Likewise Peter affirms that Paul’s writings are authoritative:
2 Peter 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Obviously the letters were meant for everyone, the instructions are meant for everyone in the Church and should not be thrown out now that we have moved on.
To this day we must be wary of overdoing asceticism which “have an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and severity to the body, but are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.”(2:23)
Worshiping angels, not eating certain foods on certain days, observing certain days, and submitting to regulations when we have “In Christ died to the elemental spirits of the world” (2:20) I say no thank you, because Paul tells me to. Likewise he writes similar things in Romans 14.
