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Kristina_P
Guest
Dear heavens, even when I was a Baptist I don’t recall hearing that song after the 3rd grade! You have to sing that in Mass?
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Kristina_P
Guest
I have to join in here. At my parents’ Baptist church, the music minister seems to make the same mistake that some Catholic music ministers make, namely, “dressing up” simple, sweet praise songs with unbelievably inappropriate dirge rhythms and organ accompaniment. Of course, he manages mostly to just pick every single praise song that is not simple and sweet, but rather theologically questionable and melodically reprehensible. I personally have never heard some of these new Catholic hymns that you’re referring to, but I must admit they sound abhorrent.
On the other hand, there really does exist good, orthodox, reverent worship music that involves acoustic guitars. I’m not saying it’s all appropriate for Mass, given the varying ages of worshippers and the specific requirements for Mass music. I would LOVE to hear some Mozart and Gregorian chanting at Our Lady of the Holy Souls. But, in my car or when worshipping in a group outside of Mass, I recognize the value in some more recently-written hymns. (None of these are hippie fare, don’t worry.)
Some of my favorites are the “City on a Hill” collections. It’s kind of funny that a bunch of modern, mostly-Protestant artists use such old-fashioned Catholic language (sometimes borrowing wholesale from the liturgy) in their music.
On the other hand, there really does exist good, orthodox, reverent worship music that involves acoustic guitars. I’m not saying it’s all appropriate for Mass, given the varying ages of worshippers and the specific requirements for Mass music. I would LOVE to hear some Mozart and Gregorian chanting at Our Lady of the Holy Souls. But, in my car or when worshipping in a group outside of Mass, I recognize the value in some more recently-written hymns. (None of these are hippie fare, don’t worry.)
Some of my favorites are the “City on a Hill” collections. It’s kind of funny that a bunch of modern, mostly-Protestant artists use such old-fashioned Catholic language (sometimes borrowing wholesale from the liturgy) in their music.
A
Alma
Guest
Make way for the mother of all atrocities:
In my parish there is an old woman who sings (loudly and off key) a hymn that says:
“To receive Communion is a sublime action
an encounter with your Creator
it is not necessary that you feel feel any affection (???)
only that you get united with your Redemptor!”
Now what does that mean?? :ehh:
And there is more:
On Christmas the priest played on his tape recorder during Consecration, the theme of ‘The Mission’ (the film), and during Communion: “I’m dreaming of a white Christmas” with Bing Cosby!!:bigyikes:
Both songs have to do with war and death, not to mention they are not liturgical at all.:nope:
I dare you to find something worse!
Alma
In my parish there is an old woman who sings (loudly and off key) a hymn that says:
“To receive Communion is a sublime action
an encounter with your Creator
it is not necessary that you feel feel any affection (???)
only that you get united with your Redemptor!”
Now what does that mean?? :ehh:
And there is more:
On Christmas the priest played on his tape recorder during Consecration, the theme of ‘The Mission’ (the film), and during Communion: “I’m dreaming of a white Christmas” with Bing Cosby!!:bigyikes:
Both songs have to do with war and death, not to mention they are not liturgical at all.:nope:
I dare you to find something worse!
Alma
C
CarolAnnSFO
Guest
I think I mentioned this earlier, but since you are asking, here it is:
In the church where I used to live, the organist once played “House of the Rising Sun”. :bigyikes: In that church, the choir “area” was near the front of the church where everybody could see us, and I wonder if the congregation noticed that that our (choir members) eyes all bugged out when we heard it. Thank God it was an instrumental version!
What that song was doing in a music book of church hymns, I have no idea!
**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
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Forest-Pine
Guest
This is an African-American spiritual that has a deep history. While a spiritual on the surface, it–like so many other songs of the day–had a double meaning. It was used by Harriet Tubman and others of the underground railroad to remind slaves to wade in the water, not only the spiritual meaning of relying on Jesus and remaining in the faith (the obvious connections to water and Christian faith abounding), but also at a practical level reminded them to wade in the water during their escape to keep the dogs off their scent.
While I haven’t looked up commentary on the song, I find it most interesting that the three colors are red, white, and blue. It also ends with an assurance that if the person holds tight to his/her baptisimal faith, the Holy Spirit will guide the person through the perils and bring him/her out safe on the other side, which has obvious spiritual and physical meanings as well.
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Forest-Pine
Guest
There were several other posts to this effect (so adstrinity you are in good company!) but I just chose the one as an example. I agree that nothing should be sung that teaches anti-Catholic theology through the song, & also that being theologically sound does not make it a good song. It is not an easy job to be a GOOD music director.I REALLY don’t like those clappy snappy songs, either.I remember talking online to a kid (21 or so at the time) who hated this as well!! They do not belong at Mass. That is NOT what Mass is about. One is taking the focus point off of God at Mass with these songs.
Nonetheless, I do not understand this animosity for excitement in the Catholic church. While solemnity does have a proper place, why can we not sing out in triumphant joy to praise the Lord as well? How is that not proper for Mass? The psalms are full of examples that were sung with (then) modern instruments in accompainment & shouts of joy & praise were common. As were people who shouted out in lament. Days of atonement. Days of solemnity.
It seems that here in the US, we’ve gone so far outside the norm (I mean by this that we have emphasized the feel-good, all-inclusive, joy & praise to the detriment of the rest) that there is a backlash of sorts. People are now going back to the Tridentine masses. Nostalgia does get its fair share of publicity, but what I hear most commonly as to why people are staying is the orthodoxy of the parish. The music exemplifies the orthodoxy, in a sense. People find the “traditional” songs a welcome relief as it is a clear indicator of our “traditional” faith being present.
I was a CORE member of a Life Teen youth group a few years back. For any who don’t know: Life Teen is a youth group program started in AZ. It follows the same structure of the mass: gather, proclaim, break, & send & always starts with the mass. What is most interesting is that the AZ mass is attended by thousands of youth & from what I gather led by a very orthodox (albeit motorcycle driving) priest. The youth are drawn in through the popular music, the ability to clap (not for each other, but as an outward expression of their inner joy), etc. But they stay because of the truth. They had a petition presented to the priest with thousands of signatures asking him to extend his homily; I believe it is now 2 hours long. Then after mass they go to the Life Night, which is themed around a Catholic topic. They stress adoration, confession, & all other tenets of our faith. This music is an honest instrument of proclaiming the truth to those who would not have listened otherwise. To make a sweeping generalization that it inherently does not belong at mass is, I believe, rather short-sighted. What most people don’t want is the liberal theology that often accompanies it. (Although I do allow for personal taste as well.)
I go back & forth between my parish’s Life Teen mass and “regular” full choir and organ mass. We also have folk masses of various types, speaking only, & other such that I don’t like (but many others do). None of these are inherently wrong. They speak to different people, all at different stages. All keep the focus on our faith, but just emphasize different parts of it. The reason I prefer the Life Teen mass (even though I don’t like the cantor’s singing) is that I can encourage my daughter to show joy during the Mass, & I take the opportunity to explain why we are joyful. I can sway my hips to the music and keep her attentive. She knows all the prayers & songs through her active participation. She can move around at certain times. But she also knows that there are some times, even at a Life Teen mass, which are not OK to move around (like the consecration and through communion and the homily.) She understands that no matter what type of music is playing, what type of mass we attend, these same things always occur and always demand attention & respect. I’ve taken her to mass with me since day 1, fully regretting the 1 time I put her in the nursery & even more so regretting the time I used the cry room. While she can sit through a “normal” mass just fine, I find that all involved have a more sacred time during a Life Teen mass. It speaks to her & takes her current stage of life into account. I see nothing wrong with that. (So long as the message is orthodox, which I understand many people do have a problem w/ at their particular parishes.)
A perfect example is the comparing & contrasting of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI during WYD. While JP II was likely to swing along with the music & show other outward signs of joy, Benedict prefers to not bring attention to himself, instead focusing on the message at hand. There are several news articles floating around about this exact topic. Neither approach is wrong, & both have a strong tradition within the church.
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RCMom
Guest
Just curious - why does everyone dislike “Gather Us In” so much?
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hilde_the_dog
Guest
I have love this whole thing. I do like Amazing Grace, it must be my old days as a calvinist. You know it was weird but I know so many songs in the Catholic Ritual Song Book except most of the old tunes of my childhood came from MLuther, now I think did he highjack those songs or did the C’s rewrite his Which same first the chicken…
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
Here where we sit
the hymn is a-startin’
over and over
it plays on and on.
Sounds like a tune
off FM poffer(ed),
reminds of markets
and elevators gone.
Let us go out-
- this melody’s syrupy!
Let us go out-
it puts us to sleep.
For three solid minutes
it drones in its chorus
while we get
the privilege of
bleating like sheep.
O
OutinChgoburbs
Guest
As we do it at the Friendly Confines:Definitely start to worry if you ever hear “seventh inning stretch” music being played after Communion!
"A one, a two, a three!
“Take me up to the altar…”
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CarolAnnSFO
Guest
You’ll find quite a few answers to that question in this thread (along with some parody lyrics):
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=68456
**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
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sconea
Guest
What a great thread…now i don’t feel so alone. Three out of our 4 songs are usually written by heretics who hated the Catholic Church and the 4th is often one of the hootenanny types.
And these are led by our so-called ‘traditional choir.’
But what took the cake for me was “Shine, Jesus, Shine”…at a children’s Mass.
And these are led by our so-called ‘traditional choir.’
But what took the cake for me was “Shine, Jesus, Shine”…at a children’s Mass.
M
MVH
Guest
This is a pretty interesting thread. I grew up as a cradle Catholic during the 80s - early 90s (I am 31 years old now). At the risk of being stereotypical, I think it’s pretty safe to say that the vast majority of songs written from 1968 - 1993 (?) are pretty abmysal to say the least. I grew up in a fairly conservative area in SW Pa where the local parishes were staffed by OSB priests primarily. In fact, I never heard of the term diocesan priest until I was 20 years old. Anyhow, I think a lot of these songs are a symptom of a deeper underlying problem in the RCC after Vatican II. Overall, Vatican II had many good qualities about it; however, bringing these changes into practice was done quite poorly. To me, the people in charge at the time borrowed entirely too much from the 60s when implementing the changes (sans the sex, drugs and immorality, of course).
I think any songs adaptable to the folk group model (and the folk group itself) should be banned from church.
I would love to see Gregorian Chant used for all masses. There is a power and reverence within chant that none of the new songs can come close to duplicating.
On another issue, does anyone know where there is a Tridentine parish in the Diocese of Youngstown or Diocese of Cleveland? I would love to attend an all Latin Mass at least once in my life.
I think any songs adaptable to the folk group model (and the folk group itself) should be banned from church.
I would love to see Gregorian Chant used for all masses. There is a power and reverence within chant that none of the new songs can come close to duplicating.
On another issue, does anyone know where there is a Tridentine parish in the Diocese of Youngstown or Diocese of Cleveland? I would love to attend an all Latin Mass at least once in my life.
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Forest-Pine
Guest
****http://www.ecclesiadei.org/region05.htm
This webpage says it is a listing of all approved Latin masses as of Jan 2005. It has both dioceses on the page I referenced above.
This webpage says it is a listing of all approved Latin masses as of Jan 2005. It has both dioceses on the page I referenced above.
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catsrus
Guest
I detest that “Mary, did you know…” song.
It always shows up at Christmas.
It always shows up at Christmas.
O
OutinChgoburbs
Guest
True- What was contained in the Vatican II documents is NOT what happened…and caused us to hear such a dreadful combination of elevator music and folkie/ hippie music. In fact, I hestiate to paint folk music with the same brush.
I do prefer REVERENT venacular, however.
T
thann
Guest
Last Sunday I cantored the noon Mass. I was prepared except for the communion song (the music director had changed it), but I sight-read so there was no problem.
Well, there WAS a problem, because as I was singing the words I was shocked at how entirely theologically wrong they are. The song was “Bread, Blessed and Broken” by Michael Lynch. The song speakas entirely of bread and wine as a SYMBOL, never once is the Real Presence mentioned:
'thann
Well, there WAS a problem, because as I was singing the words I was shocked at how entirely theologically wrong they are. The song was “Bread, Blessed and Broken” by Michael Lynch. The song speakas entirely of bread and wine as a SYMBOL, never once is the Real Presence mentioned:
I will refuse to sing that song if the music director ever selects it again, and I will speak with her about its inappropriateness (she is Lutheran!!!).
'thann
I
IPTgrad
Guest
“To Be Your Bread”
I am normally, gratefully, immune to deep adverse reaction to songs until we started using this one at Mass. This song makes me want to run screaming. It sounds like it is from the musical “Oklahoma.” I can picture cows & horses & a dance number going with it… all this in a “hymn” supposedly about the Eucharist.
Is anyone else offended by “To be Your Bread” by David Haas.
The chorus is (think of an Oklahoma-style melody):
*“To be your bread now, be your wine now, *
*Lord come and change us, *
*to be a sign of your love. *
*Blest and broken, *
*poured and flowing, *
*gift that you gave us, *
to be your body once again.”
What does it even mean? Please pray for me that I can remain composed the next time it is sung. I feel it is a cross I have been given… a penance of some sort to remain calmly in the pew. Yikes! Anyone else?
I am normally, gratefully, immune to deep adverse reaction to songs until we started using this one at Mass. This song makes me want to run screaming. It sounds like it is from the musical “Oklahoma.” I can picture cows & horses & a dance number going with it… all this in a “hymn” supposedly about the Eucharist.
Is anyone else offended by “To be Your Bread” by David Haas.
The chorus is (think of an Oklahoma-style melody):
*“To be your bread now, be your wine now, *
*Lord come and change us, *
*to be a sign of your love. *
*Blest and broken, *
*poured and flowing, *
*gift that you gave us, *
to be your body once again.”
What does it even mean? Please pray for me that I can remain composed the next time it is sung. I feel it is a cross I have been given… a penance of some sort to remain calmly in the pew. Yikes! Anyone else?
IPTgrad said:
Just curious. May I ask what is it that offends you? Is it the melody/style of music? Or is it the words?
I believe that in this case the meaning is that we are to become the embodiment of Christ in the world to each other as a response to receiving the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist.
I
IPTgrad
Guest
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