Would Creationism exist, without Protestantism?

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If I were a betting man, I’d say that nobody in Rome would have an issue if you believed that the world is 6,000 years old. They might think you’re crazy, but I bet nobody would start looking for a stake and charcoal…(see what I did there?)
 
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TULIPed said:
I could be wrong (and often am), but I’m pretty sure science definitively disproves being raised from the dead too (zombie apocalypse excepted of course).
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Science only investigates the material world and can only show that no human has been raised after three days. It says nothing about a God doing so nor any miracle claim that defies nature. It’s out of its realm of study. Any individual scientist that claims a God can not raise from the dead is not speaking as a scientist. Just as science can show the evidence for evolution, it can not show that God was or was not involved. Those that continually diss science as atheistic are trying to get science to rule on theology. Science doesn’t go there. Since so many scientists are also religious believers, I think that shows that these are two separate investigations that stay within their own boundaries.
 
I just don’t know, and as someone else said, it does not impact my faith at all. I always assume that God was specific on the important stuff and vague on the unimportant things.

But I do think that young earth science is dismissed out of hand by many who never seriously study any of its claims. Their side has some truly fascinating alternate explanations for the evidence that both sides see and share. The mockery and derision shouts down any thoughtful consideration of their views. An insult free analysis of both sides would be so much more interesting, and so much more truly scientific.
 
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Jovian90 said:
it seems like every Protestant I know thinks the world is 6,000 years old
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I am curious to know where you are meeting all these Protestants. I don’t think I know any Protestants who believe that the world is 6,000 years old.
Jovian90 said:
if Martin Luther didn’t start Protestantism, and every Christian remained Catholic
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Remember that there are more kinds of Christians than just Catholics and Protestants. Long before Martin Luther, there was the Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, and the Eastern Orthodox Churches.
Jovian90 said:
would some Christians still claim that the world is 6,000 years old?
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It’s really impossible to know, because we have that 500-year history of Catholicism coexisting with Protestantism. Catholicism would look very different today if we had not had 500 years of defining ourselves in opposition to, but also being influenced by, Protestantism. Without Protestantism, so many things would have been completely different. Would the British Empire have existed without Protestantism? Would the United States of America have existed without Protestantism? Would the industrial revolution have happened without Protestantism? In what direction would science have developed without Protestantism? How would humanism have developed in a purely Catholic environment? Without Protestantism, would there have been an Enlightenment? To what extent would secularization (and the inevitable reaction against secularization) have occurred without Protestantism? Without Protestantism, would the 20th century have witnessed two world wars, the emergence of extreme far-right and far-left ideologies, and the development of weapons of mass destruction?
 
For me, the bottom line is I don’t know - could be young or could be old. God could create however He wanted. Science indicated the earth is older than 6,000 years - but God can create as He pleases. Science cannot explain or prove Christ’s resurrection, so Science isn’t the be all, end all for me. One day, we’ll find out the answer, but I’m not sure I’ll even care about the earth’s age at that time.
 
Correct, it is scientifically impossible to rise from the dead (and the early Christians were aware of that fact also…that’s why it was kind of a big deal when Jesus did it).
 
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Pattylt said:
Science only investigates the material world and can only show that no human has been raised after three days. It says nothing about a God doing so nor any miracle claim that defies nature. It’s out of its realm of study.
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Exactly my point.
 
Precisely. Which is why arguing what science may or may not say about creation is a bit of a red herring, no?
 
TULIPed said:
I could be wrong (and often am), but I’m pretty sure science definitively disproves being raised from the dead too (zombie apocalypse excepted of course).
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We are not taking about faith. We are talking about science and the age of the earth.
 
EndTimes said:
You’re claiming that every Protestant believes the world is 6,000 years old - based upon your experiences in what … asking every Protestant you know - what they believe?

In my life I’ve only run across one person - who believes that.
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No, he didnt claim that “every Protestant” believes it. He said “it seems like every Protestant I know” believes it. If he happens to live in a part of the USA that’s heavy on Evangelical creationists, then it makes total sense to me that every Protestant he happens to know believes it.

Obviously if one’s experience of “Protestants” is Lutherans, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians, rather than Evangelicals, most Protestants you meet aren’t going to believe in a 6,000-year-old earth.
 
Dlee said:
One day, we’ll find out the answer, but I’m not sure I’ll even care about the earth’s age at that time.
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I don’t even much care about it right now to be honest. It’s irrelevant to me and my relationship with God today.
TULIPed said:
If I were a betting man, I’d say that nobody in Rome would have an issue if you believed that the world is 6,000 years old. They might think you’re crazy, but I bet nobody would start looking for a stake and charcoal…(see what I did there?)
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Rome doesn’t care. I have heard priests preach the 6,000-year-old world and the literal interpretation of Genesis straight from the pulpit. Nobody bats an eye. Such priests tend to attract people who don’t flip out and run from the church when the priest says this stuff; I don’t know whether all the Catholics listening agree, or whether they just think it’s a non-issue, or whether half of them are dozing or thinking about where they’re going to go eat after church, but no one gets excited.
 
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Why the Bible is not a Science Textbook

FADE IN:

SCENE: Inside a tent in the desert. There is a small table and chair in the middle of the tent. Some baggage is stacked at the back.

Characters: GOD invisible and omnipresent. MOSES offstage.

MOSES enters the tent.

MOSES: “What a day! If I ever see another grain of sand I swear that I am goi…”

GOD: “Moses!”

MOSES: (surprised) “Yes Lord!”

GOD: “Get pen, ink and papyrus.”

MOSES goes to the baggage and fetches a pen, ink and papyrus. He takes them to the table and sits down.

GOD: “Begin writing.”

MOSES: “Yes Lord.”

GOD: “In the beginning I created a quantum fluctuation at the hyper-sub-quark level …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord. Was that spelled K-W-A-H-K?”

GOD: “Hmmm. I foresee a problem. Humans will not discover hyper-sub-quarks for another 8,726 years three months and sixteen days. Perhaps something less cosmological might work better. Moses, begin a new sheet of papyrus.”

MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created deoxyribonucleic acid …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord, but could you spell that please?”

GOD: “Oy vey! Why did I make these people so dumb?”

GOD touches a finger to Moses’ forehead.

MOSES: “Ah, now I understand. Thank you for giving me all that knowledge Lord. Unfortunately I see a problem. If I write ‘deoxyribonucleic acid’ then none of the other Israelites will know what the he… heck I have written about unless you touch all their foreheads as well.”

GOD: “Hmmm. A good point Moses. Let me think about it for a few thousand years.”

MOSES: “But what do I do while I am waiting?”

GOD: “Never mind, I have finished thinking.”

MOSES: “That was never thousands of years.”

GOD: (angrily) “Do you doubt Me! Time is Mine to command. It is subject to Me, not Me to it.”

MOSES: (humbly) “Sorry Lord.”

GOD: “Start a new piece of papyrus.”

MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth …”

FADE OUT:
 
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thistle said:
We are not taking about faith. We are talking about science and the age of the earth.
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Science says the earth is millions of years old. Science also says it’s impossible for a man to rise from the dead (especially after 3 days!).

Perhaps you look at it like this - everything we see in the world of science tells us that the world is older than 6,000 years. Carbon dating, geology, astronomy, and biology all point to an earth - and universe - that’s perhaps billions of years in the making. And in all those millions and billions of years - no living thing has escaped death. Science tells us that our cells eventually break down with age, and this cycle actually stimulates reproductive activity. Animals (which is all we are of course) are pushed by an internal mechanism to preserve themselves in spite of death.

Except our faith tells us that, in the case of death (and the associated science), there was one man who - in spite of science (and for love of all things!) - died and rose again. And so we choose to believe science in the case of the age of the earth, and cast it aside (in the name of “faith”) in the story of our great King? I’m curious - how do you choose to believe science in the former and call it to question in the latter?

And - to add some sauce to the goose - how would you define “faith”?
 
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TULIPed said:
Science also says it’s impossible for a man to rise from the dead (especially after 3 days!).
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Science tells us that someone in a deep coma can appear dead, and recover from that coma after a few days. Josephus tells us that someone taken down from a cross early may live – one of three in Josephus’ example. Jesus was taken down early because of the Passover.

Science often comes with many caveats.
 
That would deny the sacrifice Christ made, and would be heretical.
 
rossum said:
Jesus was taken down early because of the Passover.
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Normally, the Romans broke the legs of those crucified to ensure they’d suffocate (fully) prior to removing them from the cross. This was not the case in our Lord’s crucifixion in order that prophecy might be fulfilled (more faith!)

So science perhaps does have an explanation for what happened on that terrible hill 2,000 years ago - we Christians just choose not to believe it.
 
Well, in this case it’s not science that is telling us anything about Calvary. To my knowledge, no scientific study as ever been done in an attempt to explain the resurrection. There are skeptics trying to tell us what they think might have happened. But let’s not credit it to science.
 
You’re probably right. Nobody’s done a scientific study on reanimating dead bodies. It’s so crazy that not even scientists would spend any time at all on it. Way, way crazier than a 6,000 year old earth 😉
 
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