Would God allow you to remain in Sin for a greater purpose?

[Diem]

I’m not trying to get out of my responsibility to repent of sin and am not trying to justify what I’m doing, but I am choosing to remain in a knowingly sinful situation which puts my soul in grave danger. I do not want to be in this situation, but it involves someone whom I love. I’m familiar with God’s permissive will and my question is: Would God allow someone to remain in a sinful situation for a greater purpose? I’ve been fighting this situation for a while, getting to the Sacraments, praying for God’s will, asking for a way out if I shouldn’t be there, but I’m very tired. I don’t want to sound like a kook, but at the beginning of all of this I was in grace and in prayer and I heard Him tell me to have faith and be of good courage regarding it. Since then, in the midst of it, I’ve had other experiences such as this. I realize that I have to be very careful in that the enemy could be behind it, but in this case, I’m not so sure. Any thoughts?

 

[laszlo]

Only your confessor can give you answer to this problem. And the good news is, God stands with his answer.

 

[odhiambo]

I’m not trying to get out of my responsibility to repent of sin and am not trying to justify what I’m doing, but I am choosing to remain in a knowingly sinful situation which puts my soul in grave danger. I do not want to be in this situation, but it involves someone whom I love. I’m familiar with God’s permissive will and my question is: Would God allow someone to remain in a sinful situation for a greater purpose? I’ve been fighting this situation for a while, getting to the Sacraments, praying for God’s will, asking for a way out if I shouldn’t be there, but I’m very tired. I don’t want to sound like a kook, but at the beginning of all of this I was in grace and in prayer and I heard Him tell me to have faith and be of good courage regarding it. Since then, in the midst of it, I’ve had other experiences such as this. I realize that I have to be very careful in that the enemy could be behind it, but in this case, I’m not so sure. Any thoughts?

Never!
If God had His way, there would be no sin in this world. He, however gave us a free will. To choose sin or to choose Him. The choice is ours, not God’s.
If I may be as bold as to point out that your choice now is between your love for God and your love for this other person.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’m not trying to get out of my responsibility to repent of sin and am not trying to justify what I’m doing, but I am choosing to remain in a knowingly sinful situation which puts my soul in grave danger. I do not want to be in this situation, but it involves someone whom I love. I’m familiar with God’s permissive will and my question is: Would God allow someone to remain in a sinful situation for a greater purpose? I’ve been fighting this situation for a while, getting to the Sacraments, praying for God’s will, asking for a way out if I shouldn’t be there, but I’m very tired. I don’t want to sound like a kook, but at the beginning of all of this I was in grace and in prayer and I heard Him tell me to have faith and be of good courage regarding it. Since then, in the midst of it, I’ve had other experiences such as this. I realize that I have to be very careful in that the enemy could be behind it, but in this case, I’m not so sure. Any thoughts?

I do not see how God could allow for this? We are called to repentance. Part of repentance is the need to avoid near occasions of sin.

Also you may not sin so that Good may occur.

If you are staying in a sinful situation because of someone you love then you are a source of scandal for that person as well as others. If you love them be an example.

 

[JRKH]

I’m not trying to get out of my responsibility to repent of sin and am not trying to justify what I’m doing, but I am choosing to remain in a knowingly sinful situation which puts my soul in grave danger. I do not want to be in this situation, but it involves someone whom I love. I’m familiar with God’s permissive will and my question is: Would God allow someone to remain in a sinful situation for a greater purpose? I’ve been fighting this situation for a while, getting to the Sacraments, praying for God’s will, asking for a way out if I shouldn’t be there, but I’m very tired. I don’t want to sound like a kook, but at the beginning of all of this I was in grace and in prayer and I heard Him tell me to have faith and be of good courage regarding it. Since then, in the midst of it, I’ve had other experiences such as this. I realize that I have to be very careful in that the enemy could be behind it, but in this case, I’m not so sure. Any thoughts?

I think that the first answer is the only real one. Talk to your confessor.
Without knowing the details we can really not offer any help ( and I’m not asking you to reveal them)

The statements that I bolded above are the ones that stood out.
You are remaining in a sinful situation and endangering your soul - Based on this statement - by itself and with no details- I’d say that no god is not “permitting” this. God would not “permit” this for some greater purpose.

You also say that it involves someone you love…Does this sinful situation also effect his/her soul? If so, what does it say about your “love” for this person.

It may be possible that a person find themselves in a difficult and potentially sinful situation, but sin itself needs to be avoided.
For instance, say a guy is living with his girlfriend and comes to faith. It will take time to find an apartment and mve out. He would need to go to her and discuss the matter so that they could live together chastely while he seeks other accomodations. The situation is “potentially sinful” but he can still avoid sin.

Peace
James

 

[thirddec]

1. God would not allow someone to remain in a sinful circumstance for greater good. The end does not justify the means to God. That does not mean that God will not try to generate something good out of a bad situation but im sure God would rather the situation was not bad to begin with.
2. im unclear what you mean by Gods permissive will unless you are saying God places a primacy on our free will and as such wont force us to change, this is different from God not wanting us to change especially as God knows above all that our free choices will ultimately affect our ultimate destination.
3. I am unclear how someone can know they are in a state of Grace or even if the prayer they are making are a pure prayer. When I pray , I pray in hope that i’m praying in proper state but never surety. Maybe i’m unlucky and others get the gift of sure knowledge.
4. I find your logic strange on one hand you state you know you are in a sinfull situation but how can you know this if you think that somehow God wants you to do this. One cannot sin doing what God wants you to do ( or not do); you sin by doing what God does not want you to do ( or fail to stop what he doest not want you to do). When God hardens hearts and causes them to act against logic or to continue evil its usually to ensure they are punished for previous evil.

I’m sure you are no pharoh but rather a person caught up in a complicated situation but i’m concerned about your objectivity. It sounds like you really need to speak to a wise spiritual councellor who you can trust. You may be correct that God may work some good as after all Christ goes to sinners but Christ does not become part of their sinfull practices.

I am not God so I can’t know, I’m not judging you as I know nothing of the situation. I only put down my thoughts about what you have written and I hope earnestly that through prayer and guidence you can emerge from this situation in a proper manner.

Love and respect.

 

[Diem]

Thank you all for your answers. You’ve been very helpful. I made an appointment for a Confession and counsel tomorrow. I don’t how I’m going to explain this to the person I’m involved with, if I decide to at all. He won’t understand. I’ve been lying to him by omission by not telling him about my faith, which has been pretty weak for the past few years, but I still believe the Catholic Church to teach the fullness of truth. He does not. I’ve thought about how I might be causing scandal to him, but how can that happen if he hasn’t ever heard of it nor would he necessarily believe it? He is agnostic. Also, I realize that I’m choosing between this person and God. It causes me great pain. It isn’t as easy as just leaving him behind because I’ve tried that. I’m not strong enough.

 

[Diem]

ThirdD:

1. I am unclear how someone can know they are in a state of Grace or even if the prayer they are making are a pure prayer. When I pray , I pray in hope that i’m praying in proper state but never surety. Maybe i’m unlucky and others get the gift of sure knowledge.

In a state of grace meaning that I had just been to Confession and had every intention of repenting.

I’d answer more, but I have an appointment. Perhaps later. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[thomas_jd]

I’m not trying to get out of my responsibility to repent of sin and am not trying to justify what I’m doing, but I am choosing to remain in a knowingly sinful situation which puts my soul in grave danger. I do not want to be in this situation, but it involves someone whom I love. I’m familiar with God’s permissive will and my question is: Would God allow someone to remain in a sinful situation for a greater purpose? I’ve been fighting this situation for a while, getting to the Sacraments, praying for God’s will, asking for a way out if I shouldn’t be there, but I’m very tired. I don’t want to sound like a kook, but at the beginning of all of this I was in grace and in prayer and I heard Him tell me to have faith and be of good courage regarding it. Since then, in the midst of it, I’ve had other experiences such as this. I realize that I have to be very careful in that the enemy could be behind it, but in this case, I’m not so sure. Any thoughts?

Sin has its own punishment: Virtue its own reward!

 

[JRKH]

Thank you all for your answers. You’ve been very helpful. I made an appointment for a Confession and counsel tomorrow. I don’t how I’m going to explain this to the person I’m involved with, if I decide to at all. He won’t understand. I’ve been lying to him by omission by not telling him about my faith, which has been pretty weak for the past few years, but I still believe the Catholic Church to teach the fullness of truth. He does not. I’ve thought about how I might be causing scandal to him, but how can that happen if he hasn’t ever heard of it nor would he necessarily believe it? He is agnostic. Also, I realize that I’m choosing between this person and God. It causes me great pain. It isn’t as easy as just leaving him behind because I’ve tried that. I’m not strong enough.

I pray that things go well with your confessor tomorrow.
Take your time and be guided by him.
Also recognize that this may take some time and several counciling sessions to work through.

Peace
James

 

[puzzleannie]

no there is no greater purpose than remaining in a state of grace, that is, in full relationship with God, and no greater tragedy than falling out of that state.

 

[Diem]

Thank you all, again. I did meet with my confessor. I had a confession and some counsel. Now I could use some prayers on how I’m going to get out of this situation; what words to say to the other person involved and that he might be receptive, rather than mad. I would like to be able to preserve our relationship, but have a feeling it might not go very well.

 

[JRKH]

Thank you all, again. I did meet with my confessor. I had a confession and some counsel. Now I could use some prayers on how I’m going to get out of this situation; what words to say to the other person involved and that he might be receptive, rather than mad. I would like to be able to preserve our relationship, but have a feeling it might not go very well.

Praying…a decade of the rosary

Peace
James

 

[Gregory_I]

Contradicitur:

“You did not choose me, I chose you.”

God allows a portion of humanity to remain in sin to manifest his justice. He saves whom he wills to be saved without violating their freewill.

Read St. Augustine and all of Romans Chapter 9.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

 

[thirddec]

Decade of rosary on way; so that God guides you to the resolution of your problem.

Love and Respect

 

[Diem]

Contradicitur:

“You did not choose me, I chose you.”

God allows a portion of humanity to remain in sin to manifest his justice. He saves whom he wills to be saved without violating their freewill.

Read St. Augustine and all of Romans Chapter 9.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I find it interesting that you mentioned St. Augustine as I have been thinking of him throughout this struggle. I only know the basic story about how his mother Monica prayed for his conversion, which did happen.

I still have confusion regarding my situation, because I’ve felt that God will bring me out of it safely at some point, but that puts me in the position of presuming on His mercy. He did rescue me from a sinful lifestyle in 1998 in a very dramatic way. It was kind of a St. Paul conversion in which truth came to me all at once and I saw everything that I had been doing as being wrong. It is much more involved than this. And, it was truly frightening. So I fear that since He did this for me back then and I knowingly take up sin again, I am in a very dangerous place.

I’m not sure I understand some of what you wrote. I can see God allowing one to remain in sin if applied to a person who doesn’t really “know” he is sinning due to ignorance or if someone simply doesn’t believe what he has learned about sin. But in my case, I know better, and lived within the teachings of the Church for many years prior, which puts me in danger of Hell if I continue with it. Could you help me to better understand what you wrote? Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I will add also that I feel better able to love and serve others as a result of the love this relationship cultivates in me. Not the kind of love that others have spoken of here as far as the kind that is big enough to walk away for knowing that I put my soul at peril…and his, but the kind of love that I am able to show to others as a result of this relationship, that I wasn’t able to before.

 

[Spirithound]

Would God allow someone to remain in a sinful situation for a greater purpose?

The answer really depends on what you mean by “allow”. In the context of God’s permissive will, he allowed everything that has happened, to happen. In the context of eternal salvation, God cannot allow a mortally sinful situation, in the sense that he would simply ignore it and grant salvation anyways. Eternal salvation is in fact the greatest good, and we know that no mortal sin can possibly lead directly to salvation.

There is one type of situation where God would allow a person to remain in a sinful situation for a greater purpose, and that would be remaining in a certain sin for the purpose of uprooting a more serious sin. For example, if by remaining in lust for an extended period, a man is eventually brought to see that he was in fact also being prideful at the same time, then the pride is uprooted, and the lust is also uprooted. But this type of scenario also comes under God’s permissive will, and we have no guarantee that that person wouldn’t be called to Judgement before hitting “rock-bottom”, so to speak.

I am also praying a decade of the Rosary for you.
Peace

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The answer really depends on what you mean by “allow”. In the context of God’s permissive will, he allowed everything that has happened, to happen. In the context of eternal salvation, God cannot allow a mortally sinful situation, in the sense that he would simply ignore it and grant salvation anyways. Eternal salvation is in fact the greatest good, and we know that no mortal sin can possibly lead directly to salvation.

There is one type of situation where God would allow a person to remain in a sinful situation for a greater purpose, and that would be remaining in a certain sin for the purpose of uprooting a more serious sin. For example, if by remaining in lust for an extended period, a man is eventually brought to see that he was in fact also being prideful at the same time, then the pride is uprooted, and the lust is also uprooted. But this type of scenario also comes under God’s permissive will, and we have no guarantee that that person wouldn’t be called to Judgement before hitting “rock-bottom”, so to speak.

I am also praying a decade of the Rosary for you.
Peace

I do not see how this matches up with the Church Teaching that “One may never do evil so that good may result from it”.

 

[Spirithound]

I do not see how this matches up with the Church Teaching that “One may never do evil so that good may result from it”.

The Church teaches that the end does not justify the means, which means that one may never intend to do evil for a good result. What I am talking about is the realization that one sin (lust) is effectively caused by another sin (pride). I found this proposal in Peter Kreeft’s book Back to Virtue.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The Church teaches that the end does not justify the means, which means that one may never intend to do evil for a good result. What I am talking about is the realization that one sin (lust) is effectively caused by another sin (pride). I found this proposal in Peter Kreeft’s book Back to Virtue.

Ah, I understand you now. Thanks!