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itullian
Guest
you would remember nothing about it the next day?
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Actaeon
Guest
Sure, the value of our experience is more than just built on our memories of said experiences. I might remember nothing of my young childhood, but I know that it was happy and esteem my parents highly for their contributing to my joy and growth!
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User124
Guest
Yes it’s good to enjoy our moments, btw this question is like asking why you eat if you’re going to ****, well you know 
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itullian
Guest
but if we don’t remember going what good was it.
like say i went to the movies yesterday. i dont remember going so what the point?
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Regular_Atheist
Guest
It’d actually be even better. You could go, have great fun, and then the next day you wouldn’t remember so the next time you went it would be a unique experience and you’d have just as much fun. 
Is this an analogy to having no afterlife? Because it’s a bad one.
Is this an analogy to having no afterlife? Because it’s a bad one.
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itullian
Guest
i guess it would be a bad one because i guess you could carry over some physical and phsychological benefits even if you dont remember the experience.It’d actually be even better. You could go, have great fun, and then the next day you wouldn’t remember so the next time you went it would be a unique experience and you’d have just as much fun.
Is this an analogy to having no afterlife? Because it’s a bad one.
in no afterlife you couldn’t do that because you’re non existant right?
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Regular_Atheist
Guest
Uh-huh. Quite. You wouldn’t exist. You’d feel no pain, no suffering, you wouldn’t even be aware of your non-existance. You’d never have any troubles, ever again. I actually find the idea almost appealing.
There’s also the fact that I could never have infinite reward for finite deeds if anyone had to recieve infinite punishment for finite crimes. I wouldn’t say anyone is worthy of such a thing. Not even Hitler.
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KindredSoul
Guest
It would be worth it, perhaps, if I still carried some of my experience subconsciously. If it still paid off in some way. Even if I didn’t remember it in any way whatsoever, as long as there were people there whose lives I changed or touched in some way, even something so simple as improving their day with a smile, and if these changes were permanent for them and me even after our Disneyland trips were over despite our not remembering how the changes came about, it might be worth it…because there has been a permanent benefit, showing that the experience made a real difference, one that isn’t just going to go up in smoke at the end of the visit…
…but to address the most likely analogy here, suppose that I would remember nothing about it, that I could never ever go back again, that it had absolutely no impact on me, and that everyone else who was there would not remember their own trip once it was over nor, after it was over, be impacted in any way by it, then no, it wouldn’t be worth it, not in any real sense of the word “worth.” Because the entire thing, in that case, might as well have never happened, once all is said and done.
Does this mean that I wouldn’t want to go to Disneyland in that case? No, but my wanting to go anyway doesn’t mean it’s “worth it.” It just means our desires are sometimes emotionally driven, not always reasonable, and thus not always based on “what’s worth it.” I could enjoy it while I was there, but it would still ultimately be a useless, meaningless, and worthless experience. Because once it was over, it would have changed nothing, not even my memory, nor, in keeping with the clearly intended analogy, could I repeat the experience and thus enjoy the benefits of my amnesia. It would be an altogether bleak experience.
And if–for the sake of argument and making your analogy more powerful–every fun experience was like that (so that I could not remember OR repeat them), it would be a grim consideration indeed to reflect on the fact that sooner or later I would run out of such unrepeatable experiences, and not even have the memories to console me… This would dampen any fun I might have, and indeed I might get too gloomy to really feel that there was any use “continuing” my stay at Disneyland…
But then, I value “worth” based on some sort of permanence, whereas “desire” may or may not be based on something so irrational as a mere impulse, so for me “would I want to do something” and “would it be worth doing something” are different questions altogether. I want to do possibly useless things all the time…but I would still find it depressing if everything I did was going to ultimately end up useless, forgotten, and without effect after absolutely all was said and done.
Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul
…but to address the most likely analogy here, suppose that I would remember nothing about it, that I could never ever go back again, that it had absolutely no impact on me, and that everyone else who was there would not remember their own trip once it was over nor, after it was over, be impacted in any way by it, then no, it wouldn’t be worth it, not in any real sense of the word “worth.” Because the entire thing, in that case, might as well have never happened, once all is said and done.
Does this mean that I wouldn’t want to go to Disneyland in that case? No, but my wanting to go anyway doesn’t mean it’s “worth it.” It just means our desires are sometimes emotionally driven, not always reasonable, and thus not always based on “what’s worth it.” I could enjoy it while I was there, but it would still ultimately be a useless, meaningless, and worthless experience. Because once it was over, it would have changed nothing, not even my memory, nor, in keeping with the clearly intended analogy, could I repeat the experience and thus enjoy the benefits of my amnesia. It would be an altogether bleak experience.
And if–for the sake of argument and making your analogy more powerful–every fun experience was like that (so that I could not remember OR repeat them), it would be a grim consideration indeed to reflect on the fact that sooner or later I would run out of such unrepeatable experiences, and not even have the memories to console me… This would dampen any fun I might have, and indeed I might get too gloomy to really feel that there was any use “continuing” my stay at Disneyland…
But then, I value “worth” based on some sort of permanence, whereas “desire” may or may not be based on something so irrational as a mere impulse, so for me “would I want to do something” and “would it be worth doing something” are different questions altogether. I want to do possibly useless things all the time…but I would still find it depressing if everything I did was going to ultimately end up useless, forgotten, and without effect after absolutely all was said and done.
Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul
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Actaeon
Guest
First, if one is in heaven they will feel no pain and suffering either… but they will still exist, which is by all measures better than not existing at all.
Second, what is appealing about not existing? And here I don’t mean what is appealing about sleeping, or lack of consciousness for a temporary duration… I mean what is appealing about the idea that you will be dead and gone and that your life will make no difference to you, or ultimately, to anyone else in the end?
(and all that is in the face of the fact that the “appeal” of a particular theory is not the basis of an argument for that theory in any way, shape, or form. Doctrine cannot ever be built on wish-fulfillment).
If you’d like to start a new thread on the issue, we can discuss the nature of hell… because it seems to me that you’re laboring under the peasant-view of the middle ages (that hell is some sort of harsh punishment metted out by a wrathful God) rather than understanding actual church teaching on why people go to hell (that they reject God and God withdraws from them).
What was simplified for illiterate peasants to understand centuries ago should not even be on the table when true doctrine is readily available for research (online even!)
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Rolltide
Guest
Your time might be better spent at the hospital, determining why you have this serious short term memory problem!
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Alberti_Devoveo
Guest
Worth what? The money? Probably not. The time? Yes (presuming that you would not remember anything about the previous day, regardless of the objective accomplished). The experience? Yes, again.
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Blinky
Guest
“For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?”
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atheistgirl
Guest
Lots of people with dementia and severe intellectual impairment and difficulties go to such places every day, even though the next day they have no recollection of doing so. They have a great time when they’re there.
Should such people not be taken there just because they won’t remember it the next day?
Of course they should.
They’re living in the moment and living every minute of it.
The fact they won’t remember it tomorrow is not justification for making the effort of helping them enjoy a fantastic day out.
Much like just because there’s no afterlife, doesn’t mean we don’t make the effort to get the most of the life we have, and do our best to make sure others do to
Sarah x
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itullian
Guest
hi Sarah, missed youLots of people with dementia and severe intellectual impairment and difficulties go to such places every day, even though the next day they have no recollection of doing so. They have a great time when they’re there.
Should such people not be taken there just because they won’t remember it the next day?
Of course they should.
They’re living in the moment and living every minute of it.
The fact they won’t remember it tomorrow is not justification for making the effort of helping them enjoy a fantastic day out.
Much like just because there’s no afterlife, doesn’t mean we don’t make the effort to get the most of the life we have, and do our best to make sure others do to
Sarah x
they recieve benefits from the visit. the dead would not.
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atheistgirl
Guest
:hug1:hi Sarah, missed you
Your question was if they couldn’t remember it, would it be worth it.
The answer is clearly yes, it would be worth it.
Even if they don’t and won’t remember it 24 hours later, while it was happening, they were having a wild time and loving it. (for arguments sake - I know an adult who is intellectually impaired and has alcohol induced dementia, who would simply hate being in such a place with so many other people around - he hates crowds and noise and his routines being disrupted).
Of course, the dead, are, well, just dead. I’m not aware of any evidence that suggests the dead are anything but dead, and yes, I’m well aware of and well read up on so called near death experiences but it’s not convincing and it’s certainly a stretch to jump from our increasing knowledge of the ‘‘process’’ of dying, and the effects of this process on the brain, to saying that’s evidence something lives on from us after we die.
All the more reason to cherish this one life we definately have, and make the most of it for our good and the good of all those around us, including the land and animals we temporarily have stewardship over.
Sarah x
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itullian
Guest
i agree, but ultimately…:hug1:
Your question was if they couldn’t remember it, would it be worth it.
The answer is clearly yes, it would be worth it.
Even if they don’t and won’t remember it 24 hours later, while it was happening, they were having a wild time and loving it. (for arguments sake - I know an adult who is intellectually impaired and has alcohol induced dementia, who would simply hate being in such a place with so many other people around - he hates crowds and noise and his routines being disrupted).
Of course, the dead, are, well, just dead. I’m not aware of any evidence that suggests the dead are anything but dead, and yes, I’m well aware of and well read up on so called near death experiences but it’s not convincing and it’s certainly a stretch to jump from our increasing knowledge of the ‘‘process’’ of dying, and the effects of this process on the brain, to saying that’s evidence something lives on from us after we die.
All the more reason to cherish this one life we definately have, and make the most of it for our good and the good of all those around us, including the land and animals we temporarily have stewardship over.
Sarah x
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Contarini
Guest
Those are the only circumstances under which I might possibly consent to go to Disneyland
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atheistgirl
Guest
Those are the only circumstances under which I might possibly consent to go to Disneyland
Aww shoot! Another coffee nostril moment
Sarah x
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Hi kid. I can hardly wait until the time, then I can re-read all those Agathe Christie, Louis L’Amour, and Rex Stout novels again. All that fun all over again!!!Lots of people with dementia and severe intellectual impairment and difficulties go to such places every day, even though the next day they have no recollection of doing so. They have a great time when they’re there.
Should such people not be taken there just because they won’t remember it the next day?
Of course they should.
They’re living in the moment and living every minute of it.
The fact they won’t remember it tomorrow is not justification for making the effort of helping them enjoy a fantastic day out.
Much like just because there’s no afterlife, doesn’t mean we don’t make the effort to get the most of the life we have, and do our best to make sure others do to
Sarah x
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Contarini
Guest
One of my best friends claims that he can never remember the plots of novels, particularly mystery novels. So yes, he reads the same Agatha Christies over and over. . . (he also like Ngaio Marsh)
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