Would it be worth going to Disneyland tomorrow if

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you would remember nothing about it the next day?
It would make no difference to its value as an experience. Let’s take a Cyrenaic perspective- you spend hours waiting around, driving, parking your car, waiting in cues for rides. The rides themselves (I presume) are physically unpleasant. It is crowded by the kind of people who like that kind of thing.

I say, stay at home, and read Scripture. Or better, yet, spend the day staring at the wall listening to Philip Glass.
 
Uh-huh. Quite. You wouldn’t exist. You’d feel no pain, no suffering, you wouldn’t even be aware of your non-existance. You’d never have any troubles, ever again. I actually find the idea almost appealing.
Yes, that’s a pretty good way of thinking about Heaven- maybe it’s the best image for the modern world.
 
It’d actually be even better. You could go, have great fun, and then the next day you wouldn’t remember so the next time you went it would be a unique experience and you’d have just as much fun. 😃

Is this an analogy to having no afterlife? Because it’s a bad one.
Pretty much what I was going to say - if we didn’t remember what we’d done the day before, we would firstly have no regrets if we never did it again, and if we ever did have the same experience, we’d enjoy it just as much because it would be new and exciting all over again.

Imagine if you could meet the love of your life for the first time every day!

Saying that an experience has no meaning or significance if we either can’t remember it or it doesn’t last forever is tantamount to saying that nothing we do or feel means anything in any case, which is why those who tout belief in the afterlife claim this, I suppose - if it doesn’t have eternal (or at least lasting) significance, rather than mere momentary significance, it might as well not happen as happen. But just because we can’t remember an experience doesn’t mean we weren’t there living it while it lasted - my mother, who is suffering from dementia, barely remembers what she was doing the previous day, but that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t experience every moment as it happens.

Humans are, in general, quite poor at living in the moment - dogs are much better at it. We could learn a lot from their approach to life…
 
It’d actually be even better. You could go, have great fun, and then the next day you wouldn’t remember so the next time you went it would be a unique experience and you’d have just as much fun. 😃

Is this an analogy to having no afterlife? Because it’s a bad one.
Actually, you wouldn’t remember having any fun no matter how many times you went.
 
Actually, you wouldn’t remember having any fun no matter how many times you went.
That’s what RA said. That’s the point. You’d be like having fun all over as if it were the first time, again and again - because you wouldn’t remember.

Just because you couldn’t remember isn’t a reason not to go though is it.

Otherwise very young children, people with severe intellectual difficulties possibly, or people with dementia or profound brain injury would never to taken to do anything they like, if a criteria was you had to remember it to enjoy it.

Sarah x 🙂
 
That’s what RA said. That’s the point. You’d be like having fun all over as if it were the first time, again and again - because you wouldn’t remember.

Just because you couldn’t remember isn’t a reason not to go though is it.

Otherwise very young children, people with severe intellectual difficulties possibly, or people with dementia or profound brain injury would never to taken to do anything they like, if a criteria was you had to remember it to enjoy it.

Sarah x 🙂
How do you know you had fun?
 
They laugh, smile, etc. But how would they know they had fun if they don’t remember it?
Should they not go, and experience the fun, the laughs, the smiles, the thrills, the joy, just because they can’t remember it the next day?

Sarah x 🙂
 
Should they not go, and experience the fun, the laughs, the smiles, the thrills, the joy, just because they can’t remember it the next day?

Sarah x 🙂
Nothing lost, nothing gained. But why do you keep assuming they had fun?
 
They laugh, smile, etc. But why do you assume they had fun, if they remember nothing about going? They can’t tell you one way or another.
While they’re there, they’re laughting, smiling, thrilling and expessing joy. Why?

Are they enjoying themselves? They’re displaying all the characteristics of someone enjoying themselves, as you described it.

Sarah x 🙂
 
They laugh, smile, etc. But why do you assume they had fun, if they remember nothing about going? They can’t tell you one way or another.
Every weekend, your mom goes to the beach.

When at the beach, she is so happy.

She shows this by swimming, laughing, smiling, going for walks along the beach, and making comments about how beautiful the place is, how she loves the beach, how she’s spent every weekend at the beach since she was a little girl, and so on.

Your mom develops dementia.

Severe.

She can’t remember a thing from one minute to the next but otherwise she is the same woman, with the same likes and dislikes as she’s always had.

She just can’t remember things any more.

It’s the weekend.

Are you going to take her to the beach?

Or will you not bother, because she won’t remember it?

I mean, seriously, does this really need spelling out???

Sarah x 🙂
 
There’s also the fact that I could never have infinite reward for finite deeds if anyone had to recieve infinite punishment for finite crimes. I wouldn’t say anyone is worthy of such a thing. Not even Hitler.
That depends what you mean by infinite punishment.

Tell me, have you ever shunned somebody from your life because they had done something terrible to you and continued to do terrible things?
 
Every weekend, your mom goes to the beach.

When at the beach, she is so happy.

She shows this by swimming, laughing, smiling, going for walks along the beach, and making comments about how beautiful the place is, how she loves the beach, how she’s spent every weekend at the beach since she was a little girl, and so on.

Your mom develops dementia.

Severe.

She can’t remember a thing from one minute to the next but otherwise she is the same woman, with the same likes and dislikes as she’s always had.

She just can’t remember things any more.

It’s the weekend.

Are you going to take her to the beach?

Or will you not bother, because she won’t remember it?

I mean, seriously, does this really need spelling out???

Sarah x 🙂
You have changed the context from “I” to “thou”. Of course you would do things for the people you love; but in reality the experience is wasted and is meaningless to the person who is robbed of those experiences; because it is lost and comes to nothing. Our memories are an important part of our happiness and our development as human beings. A life without memories is not really a life at all. That’s precisely why dementia is so bad and scary. I would think you were a liar if you claimed to be okay with the idea of losing all your memories everyday; not knowing who your family or friends were.

Does it really need spelling out?!!!
 
You have changed the context from “I” to “thou”. Of course you would do things for the people you love; but in reality the experience is wasted and is meaningless to the person who is robbed of those experiences; because it is lost and comes to nothing. Our memories are an important part of our happiness and our development as human beings. A life without memories is not really a life at all. That’s precisely why dementia is so bad and scary. I would think you were a liar if you claimed to be okay with the idea of losing all your memories everyday; not knowing who your family or friends were.

Does it really need spelling out?!!!
Here’s an alternative take on memory,from the Book of Lieh-Tzu. It’s worth thinking about:

*Yang-li Hua-tzü, of the Sung State, was afflicted in middle age by loss of memory. Anything he received in the morning he had forgotten by the evening, anything he gave away in the evening he had forgotten the next morning. Out-of-doors, he forgot to walk; indoors, he forgot to sit down. At any given moment, he had no recollection of what had just taken place; and a little later on, he could not even recollect what had happened then. All his family were perfectly disgusted with him. Fortune-tellers were summoned, but their divinations proved unsuccessful; Wizards were sought out, but their exorcisms were ineffectual; physicians were called in, but their remedies were of no avail. At last, a learned professor from the Lu State volunteered his services, declaring that he could effect a cure. Hua-tzu’s wife and family immediately offered him half their estate if only he would tell them how to set to work. The professor replied: ‘This is a case which cannot be dealt with by means of auspices and diagrams; the evil cannot be removed by prayers and incantations, nor successfully combated by drugs and potions. What I shall try to do is to influence his mind and turn the current of his thoughts; in that way a cure is likely to be brought about.’

Accordingly, the experiment was begun. The professor exposed his patient to cold, so that he was forced to beg for clothes; subjected him to hunger, so that he was fain to ask for food; left him in darkness, so that he was obliged to search for light. Soon, he was able to report progress to the sons of the house, saying gleefully: ‘The disease can be checked. But the methods I shall employ have been handed down as a secret in my family, and cannot be made known to the public. All attendants must, therefore, be kept out of the way, and I must be shut up alone with my patient.’ The professor was allowed to have his way, and for the space of seven days no one knew what was going on in the sick man’s chamber. Then, one fine morning, the treatment came to an end, and, wonderful to relate, the disease of so many years’ standing had entirely disappeared!

No sooner had Hua-tzu regained his senses, however, than he flew into a great rage, drove his wife out of doors, beat his sons, and, snatching up a spear, hotly pursued the professor through the town. On being arrested and asked to explain his conduct, this is what he said: ‘Lately when I was steeped in forgetfulness, my senses were so benumbed that I was quite unconscious of the existence of the outer world. But now I have been brought suddenly to a perception of the events of half a lifetime. Preservation and destruction, gain and loss, sorrow and joy, love and hate have begun to throw out their myriad tentacles to invade my peace; and these emotions will, I fear, continue to keep my mind in the state of turmoil that I now experience. Oh! if I could but recapture a short moment of that blesséd oblivion!’

‘If such is the man’s reaction to an infirmity which resembles the Highest Principle, how much greater will be the effect of incorporation in the Absolute!’
 
What a terribly sad and limited outlook on life.
News flash: Dementia is sad and limiting. Pretending that its not is disturbing to say the least. These are the facts. However, feel free to remain in your fantasy.
 
Dementia is sad. Pretending that its not is disturbing to say the least.
You’re right, but on the overall point for once I agree with atheistgirl ( 😉 ).

Dementia is sad, there no denying that, but there is no such thing as a life not worth living. We are not our memories. We all have things to contribute to the world, even the most disabled people among us.
 
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