Would The Bush Haters Please Interpret This Statement By The Pope

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gilliam:
I don’t think so. The thing many Europeans find frustrating about Pres. Bush is his candor. That’s one of the reasons they call him a cowboy.

I can’t think of anything he has ‘sprung’ on the nation or the world without dropping hints about it months earlier.
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What’s he going to do about Iran? We really don’t know. Whether by peaceful means or by going to war, his agenda is not open to us. Politicians have to have a hidden agenda. What leader can share it all with his people?
 
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Richardols:
What’s he going to do about Iran? We really don’t know. Whether by peaceful means or by going to war, his agenda is not open to us. Politicians have to have a hidden agenda. What leader can share it all with his people?
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No, GWB’s agenda is crystal clear–he’s stated it many times. He wants democracy to flourish in all the countries of the Middle East. What he has not revealed, and would be a fool to do so, is how he will encourage that to happen. You have to admit that grumble all they want, the leaders of the Middle East know that Bush means business, unlike his Democrat predecessors who did nothing but appease, appease, appease.
 
Lisa N:
I
And what is going on in Holland? Who is leading that modern day Sodom?

Lisa N
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well Lisa Sodom is a close ally of the USA which supported the invasion of Iraq and sent troops to support the occupation. Why do you think Sodom found itself on the same side as the USA and the opposite side from the Pope?
 
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Della:
France and Germany certainly are strong enough. I have no confidence in the leaders of either of those countries with their hands in the pockets of Middle Eastern dictators.
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What is your evidence for Herr Schroeder being corrupt? Or do you just assume that anyone who disagrees with GWB must be corrupt?
 
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jlw:
And while your principled stand against violence is admirable, your view of reality is not.
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The Christian is not bound to accept ‘the rules’ we are called to look at the profoundly, radically ‘unrealistic’ example of Our Lord Jesus Christ. If you do not believe that Jesus by his transcendent power can transform the world then you are not really in line with Church thinking.

Pope John Paul said this
Peace is more and more clearly seen as the only way to justice; peace is itself the work of justice. And yet again, and again, one can see how peace is undermined and destroyed. Why is it then that our convictions do not always match our behaviour and our attitudes? Why is it that we do not seem to be able to banish all conflicts from our lives?..
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…peace cannot be established by violence, peace can never flourish in a climate of terror, intimidation and death. It is Jesus himself who said: “All who take the sword will perish by the sword” (Mt,26:52). This is the word of God, and it commands this generation of violent men to desist from hatred and violence and to repent.
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Violence is a lie, for it goes against the truth of our faith, the truth of our humanity. Violence destroys what it claims to defend: the dignity, the life, the freedom of human beings. Violence is a crime against humanity, for it destroys the very fabric of society
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And while promoting democracy is idealistic, it does not necessarily follow that it is naive. What, after all, prevents wars? Hardly the U.N.; and not just aircraft carriers either. The last half-century of peace in Europe and Japan, and the end of our old enmity of Russia, attest that the widest spread of democratic rule is the best guarantee against international aggression. Ballots substitute for bullets in venting internal frustrations.

And in today’s Middle East, our new insistence on democracy is not our first but rather our last resort. We have already tried averting our eyes, subsidies, passive-aggressive lectures, outright hostility, everything but principled and consistent promotion of constitutional government. Despite varying degrees of American appeasement, monarchy, Baathism, Nasserism, pan-Arabism, and Islamic fundamentalism have all turned out to have intolerable spillover effects on the U.S. In contrast, the Muslims of democratic Indonesia, India, and Turkey do not threaten us.

From that evil neocon: Victor David Hanson
 
gilliam said:
And while promoting democracy is idealistic, it does not necessarily follow that it is naive. What, after all, prevents wars? Hardly the U.N.; and not just aircraft carriers either. The last half-century of peace in Europe and Japan, and the end of our old enmity of Russia, attest that the widest spread of democratic rule is the best guarantee against international aggression. Ballots substitute for bullets in venting internal frustrations.

And in today’s Middle East, our new insistence on democracy is not our first but rather our last resort. We have already tried averting our eyes, subsidies, passive-aggressive lectures, outright hostility, everything but principled and consistent promotion of constitutional government. Despite varying degrees of American appeasement, monarchy, Baathism, Nasserism, pan-Arabism, and Islamic fundamentalism have all turned out to have intolerable spillover effects on the U.S. In contrast, the Muslims of democratic Indonesia, India, and Turkey do not threaten us.

From that evil neocon: Victor David Hanson
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And what an unfortunate coincidence that the USA’s commitment to imposing domocracy at the end of a bayonet should happen to be in the country with the worlds second largest oil reserves.
 
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Matt25:
What is your evidence for Herr Schroeder being corrupt? Or do you just assume that anyone who disagrees with GWB must be corrupt?
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I mean that Germany and France have benefited from the “Food for Oil” program and cowtowed to Saddam instead of standing against him and his reign of terror.
 
Ltcatholic said:
"…I also continue to follow with great appreciation your commitment to the promotion of moral values in American society, particularly with regard to respect for life and the family.

A fuller and deeper understanding between the United States of America and Europe will surely play a decisive role in resolving the great problems which I have mentioned, as well as so many others confronted by humanity today. May your visit, Mr. President, give new and powerful impetus to such cooperation.

Mr. President, as you carry out your lofty mission of service to your nation and to world peace, I assure you of my prayers and cordially invoke upon you God’s blessings of wisdom, strength and peace.

May God bestow peace and freedom upon all mankind!"

JPII June 2004
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The Vatican has a diplomatic corps for a reason
Cuba, Jan. 21, 1998 http://religion-cults.com/pope/pope-castro14.jpg

His Holiness greets President Castro
 
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Della:
I mean that Germany and France have benefited from the “Food for Oil” program and cowtowed to Saddam instead of standing against him and his reign of terror.
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The country that made the most money from Oil for Food is the one you live in. Do some research.
 
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Matt25:
And what an unfortunate coincidence that the USA’s commitment to imposing domocracy at the end of a bayonet should happen to be in the country with the worlds second largest oil reserves.
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If we take the oil, which we haven’t so far, you can say “I told you so”.

By the way, France, Russia and China had the oil prior to the Liberation (at least the contracts for it and that is why they vetoed any change in the status quo at the UN), we shall see what happens with the contracts in the future. In prior wars, it went to the victors, and no one cryed ‘fowl’, not even Rome.

Funny, the Left kept yelling at the US to do something about the middle east, well we are, and the Left is not happy. Go figure!
 
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Matt25:
The country that made the most money from Oil for Food is the one you live in. Do some research.
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We were talking about corruption not profits. It is widely known that Germany and France did under the table deals with Saddam in the “Food for Oil” program. You do your own research.
 
Peace is more and more clearly seen as the only way to justice; peace is itself the work of justice. And yet again, and again, one can see how peace is undermined and destroyed. Why is it then that our convictions do not always match our behaviour and our attitudes? Why is it that we do not seem to be able to banish all conflicts from our lives?..

…peace cannot be established by violence, peace can never flourish in a climate of terror, intimidation and death. It is Jesus himself who said: “All who take the sword will perish by the sword” (Mt,26:52). This is the word of God, and it commands this generation of violent men to desist from hatred and violence and to repent.

Violence is a lie, for it goes against the truth of our faith, the truth of our humanity. Violence destroys what it claims to defend: the dignity, the life, the freedom of human beings. Violence is a crime against humanity, for it destroys the very fabric of society
 
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Matt25:
And what an unfortunate coincidence that the USA’s commitment to imposing domocracy at the end of a bayonet should happen to be in the country with the worlds second largest oil reserves.
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So long as England occupies the six counties of Ulster and prevents a United Ireland, I would think that good taste and decorum would dictate refraining from discussing anything imposed at the end of a bayonet.
 
I read an interesting article about the Holy Father actually calling President Clinton to talk with him about Bosnia and the need for intervention. John Paul II was an incredible man and a terrific pope.
 
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gilliam:
In case you don’t know the history, at the time Rumsfeld was not kowtowing… if that matters to you.
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Do you think he was there to lecture Saddam about democracy?

I know the history. Rumsfeld was there to offer Saddam the weapons he needed to deal with the Iranians. You know, those WMDs he used on the Iranians and later, the Kurds?
 
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gnjsdad:
Do you think he was there to lecture Saddam about democracy?

I know the history. Rumsfeld was there to offer Saddam the weapons he needed to deal with the Iranians. You know, those WMDs he used on the Iranians and later, the Kurds?
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He wasn’t there to kow tow to him. The Kurds were gassed with gas sold to Iraq by a company in Belgium. The man responsible was tried this year for it. We posted the story in this group.
 
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